Atheists Corner

Ush> Ehrmmm… Not following the beginning of your post there.
Sure, there are totally immoral people around, that seems to be leading perfectly happy lives. Perhaps I should then say – “I” couldn’t live like that (however we define “that” here).
Were I to chose a “life of crime” my conscience would kill me.
You may then ask “why is that?” Wouldn’t it be easier for me to abandon conscience and get more. No. Why?
I take great joy and pride in accomplishing the things I do – without resorting to the things I do not want done against me. Reciprocal altruism. If I steal from someone, I cannot be surprised if that person steals from me… and so on and so forth.

“And doing better in a material sense is certainly the easisest way to a happy life - it works for a LOT of people. Sure as hell would for me; I am not going to hide behind false morality to claim otherwise (as I suspect a lot of people do).”
I feel sorry for you. If you truly think doing well materially is the easiest way to a happy life then we see differently. It does make things EASIER – sure, but without my friends, colleagues and family I’d be miserable.
Having my social life I would naturally prefer to be rich! 😉

Yes, I do know people who jump from friend-crowd to friend-crowd until they finally have to leave town. But frankly – I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes.
”Sorry... no. And again, just because something is instinctual does not mean it is BEST.”
No need to apologise for your opinions. Instinctual simply means that’s how we work…

“Again, Omega, I don't intend to spend time demonstrating why it's the selfish bastards, on average, who get ahead in life and are happier for it.”
No need. I understand your point of view. I’ll just claim that I’ll have a hard time being a “selfish bastard” because my social instinct isn’t screwed up.

“I think you are too blind for me to take this any further with.”
Your ability for arrogance in discussions never ceases to amaze me, Ush. You do not have monopoly on the truth, neither do I, or anyone else – so don’t pretend that your side of the story is the God-(sorry 😉) given truth.

i haven't been following this thread, so sorry if this has been asked already. If there is NO God, what is the purpose in life? Even if you have kids, you never know what tomorrow will bring and how do you tell your kids, you die and nothing, thats it, nothing. Why would you want to work so hard in life and gain nothing?

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
i haven't been following this thread, so sorry if this has been asked already. If there is NO God, what is the purpose in life? Even if you have kids, you never know what tomorrow will bring and how do you tell your kids, you die and nothing, thats it, nothing. Why would you want to work so hard in life and gain nothing?

You're missing the point. The meaning of life is to LIVE. Just live, and have fun doing it, or try at least. Knowing that at the end, there is nothing, would make you live life to the fullest NOW, instead of trying to be something someone ELSE(god) wants, to win a prize you don't even know for sure even exists.

You may not know that God exists, I do. Sorry that you don't.

1. I don't need, nor want your pity, 2. No, you don't KNOW god exist. You think he does, you believe with all your heart that he does, but having faith, and having hard evidence are two different things.

hmm Yes i do, I feel his presence, i've seen him heal and miracles i've seen him change lives, that is MY proof for ME.

You've seen God himself, in a visible form, speak and heal people? Well, that would be hard evidence, and until I see/hear/feel the same, I won't change my mind.

Yeah i know you won't, thats why i said, it's proof to ME. 🙂

hmm Yes i do, I feel his presence, i've seen him heal and miracles i've seen him change lives, that is MY proof for ME.

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
i haven't been following this thread, so sorry if this has been asked already. If there is NO God, what is the purpose in life? Even if you have kids, you never know what tomorrow will bring and how do you tell your kids, you die and nothing, thats it, nothing. Why would you want to work so hard in life and gain nothing?

If there is no god, then from a greater perspective of things individual human life is meaningless. But what is so incomprehensible about that? Some people have a very hard time considering their own mortality, not that I put you in that bracket. As for explaining it to children, I don't see how telling them the truth would be damaging. I would tell them, but I could be wrong. I don't have kids so I can't really comment with any certainty. I assume what you mean by 'working so hard' is a right of passage into heaven. Although if you were an atheist, neither heaven or hell would concern you. If an atheist walks around in misery because they know their life has no meaning in the scope of the universe, then they need to reconsider their perspective. Just because you have no great purpose doesn't mean you can't live a happy life. Meaningless life really is underrated.

Try this; disregard everything anyone has ever told you about life, god and the universe. Accept life to be just what you see around you, nothing more. Be happy that you are free in your actions and are so fortunate to be alive. Never completely accept something because it is written or because other people believe it. Always be willing to completely change your idea of something, as long as it makes sense to you. Keep your mind critical and constantly open to new ideas. Basically, don't neglect this life while hoping for another. 😉

"If there is sin against life, it consists in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life." -Albert Camus

"Not if you enjoy the things that result from being mean and cruel, and they are a hell of a lot easier. Bullies enjoy school more than the bullied; seen that myself rather a lot. It's only more enjoyable to those people because they think it SHOULD be more enjoyable- bit of a waste of effort. Far simpler just to look out for yourself; give me a good reason not to. At the very least, if you find a person who clearly enjoys being cruel more than being good, can you give a good reason why he should not go with that? And as being selfish is easier than being selfless, that looks more rational to me."

Sure, it's easier, but there are just a lot of people who don't get kicks out of being mean and cruel to people. There's nothing wrong with being selfish, most succesful people are. But, again, it's not for everyone. Some peopel would rather live a normal, honest, simple life without all the possible luxory that could come from being overly selfish.

I know I don't like being mean to people for my own benefit, I'd simply rather sacrafice a few things myself rather then cause other people misery. It's just how I am. Why am I like that? I don't know, guess my parents did a good job raising me.

White eagle: Try this; disregard everything anyone has ever told you about life, god and the universe. Accept life to be just what you see around you, nothing more. Be happy that you are free in your actions and are so fortunate to be alive. Never completely accept something because it is written or because other people believe it. Always be willing to completely change your idea of something, as long as it makes sense to you. Keep your mind critical and constantly open to new ideas. Basically, don't neglect this life while hoping for another.

I can disregard everything everyone has said to me or taught me, BUT that doesn't change the fact of what JESUS has done in my life, what i have seen him do, How he has changed things in my life. I wasn't always a christian & I can tell you this, I wasn't happy either, Jesus was always missing in my life. Yeah i had some good times, but it didn't last very long. Jesus was always the missing piece in my life.
You say that you wouldn't mind telling your kids the truth, BUT what if it's not the truth, are you willing to risk your kids going to HELL? You tell me to explore the fact that maybe i'm wrong, but what if i'm right?

Heh, heh. I've already said that I've considered the possibility that your beliefs are correct. I was a catholic for 16 of my 18 years on this planet. My choice to become an atheist wasn't made without considering other options.

As for what I would tell my children, you're right, using a word like the truth was a bit clumsy. I would tell them that I don't know what happens when you die, but you are gone from the earth forever. In other words I'd tell them what I know, not what I hope is true. I'd try to teach them to be concerned with this life rather than what might be after it.

You obviously can't disregard everything you have been told about life otherwise god and religion would be unknown to you. Admit it, without other people establishing religion before you, you wouldn't be a believer now. Even if you were born somewhere else, a remote area away from the rest of the world, you would never have even heard of jesus. You may have had a 'gap' in your life but jesus is not the only way to fill it. Everything you can say jesus has done for you can be put down to your own personal determination and general luck. I would like you to explore the idea that you may be wrong in your belief's but I don't necessarily mean to 'convert' you to what I believe. Everyone should be able to put their belief's before someone else and answer any questions or criticism they direct at them without resorting to blind faith.

WHITE EAGLE: You obviously can't disregard everything you have been told about life otherwise god and religion would be unknown to you. Admit it, without other people establishing religion before you, you wouldn't be a believer now. Even if you were born somewhere else, a remote area away from the rest of the world, you would never have even heard of jesus. You may have had a 'gap' in your life but jesus is not the only way to fill it. Everything you can say jesus has done for you can be put down to your own personal determination and general luck. I would like you to explore the idea that you may be wrong in your belief's but I don't necessarily mean to 'convert' you to what I believe. Everyone should be able to put their belief's before someone else and answer any questions or criticism they direct at them without resorting to blind faith.
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No, i don't thk it would be unknown to me. I've had the choice my whole life to go to church or not go. I wasn't made to go. I chose to go, I chose to learn more about him at a very early age.
No, the things that have happened are not general luck lol but i know thats the way you view it.
When i was a kid, i had dated this guy for 3 1/2 years. We had talked of getting married, i was very close to his parents and even they talked of us getting married, I was very much in Love w/him. Another guy didn't even cross my mind, he was the only one I wanted.
Anyways...he hurt (cheated on me ) me real bad one nite & i was very devasted but i still loved him and wanted to be w/him no matter what. We talked things out & everything, and i was a christian at that time. I went to church one nite and was praying, i was still very hurt over everything, I prayed to God, if he's not the right one for me, plzzz take all my feelings i have for him from me, cuz i can't just stop loving him. There was several people praying w/me, one of the ladies (was not from our church) leaned down and said, God has answered your prayers. She didn't know what i was praying for, she just told me what God told her to tell me. After that nite my feeling for him left.....I knew right then, that God had other plans for me or he wouldn't have taken my feelings away JUST LIKE THAT. If anyone has ever been in love before, they know those feeling don't just leave.
There's tons of things that God has done in my life for me not to believe in him. That did not just happen.

I know you've had the choice to go go church your entire life, I don't think somebody forced you to go. What I meant in my last post is that without other people the church wouldn't exist. People who lived before you established all the churches and religions we have today. All religions are man made, there is nothing miraculous about any of them. I sympathise with the pain you've been through but I don't think god took your feelings away just like that, sounds like a placebo to me. Although you probably knew I would say that. 🙂 With or without the idea of god you would have made it through your problems, I think you underestimate your own power to overcome problems. But keeping with what I said earlier, without the actions of humans before you, there would be no religion. Because there is nothing on earth that even hint's towards a higher power at work. Don't you think?

I've heard that story before, from a pastor who was visiting my school.

Ever think that the woman told you exactly what you needed to hear to make you feel better? Sometimes hearing the words that have just the right meaning makes you change the way you think subconciously. Love is an emotion, and just like any other, with the right push, it can be "turned off". The mystery of the human mind hasn't even come close to becoming unraveled.

Or it was God, who did something for you, and nothing for me, who has much bigger problems then a fiance cheating on me.

Originally posted by WhiteEagle
I know you've had the choice to go go church your entire life, I don't think somebody forced you to go. What I meant in my last post is that without other people the church wouldn't exist. People who lived before you established all the churches and religions we have today. All religions are man made, there is nothing miraculous about any of them. I sympathise with the pain you've been through but I don't think god took your feelings away just like that, sounds like a placebo to me. Although you probably knew I would say that. 🙂 With or without the idea of god you would have made it through your problems, I think you underestimate your own power to overcome problems. But keeping with what I said earlier, without the actions of humans before you, there would be no religion. Because there is nothing on earth that even hint's towards a higher power at work. Don't you think?

🙂 Yes, i knew you would say that 😄 but i know that you can't stop loving someone just like that and feeling don't just go away. And the lady didn't know what i was praying about, she just said, God answered my prayers, so by saying that could have meant, yes you are to stay w/him or no you'r not, being that my feeling left, that was my answer. I know that everyone can get through a break up, but it takes time, it does NOT happen instantly, like it did for me. I also know that no matter what instances i give you, YOU will always try to come up w/something. I thk most people don't want to knw if there is a God or not, it's easier to just try to come up w/other reasons of why ssomething happened than to believe in God. 🙁

I know what you mean, but I'm not like that. I would have absolutely no hesitation accepting a god if he we're to appear and make himself known to me. I don't believe an all powerful god could only be seen on earth through the acts of other people, like the woman who told you your prayers had be answered. I would need something more undeniable, something that can't be put down to superstition. I don't lack faith either, but I also don't put faith into just anything. The fact of the matter is I could live with a god or without one. All it would take for me to accept god completly would be a conversation with him, face to face. Do you think that's asking too much of an omnipotent being?

One could also ask: Why doesn't Gods appear to those who do NOT believe.
Why do they always appear to those who already DO believe?

It's the same with the belief in aliens. They only reveal themselves to people who already believe in ET's from outer space.

True dat.

Teen Girl Squad!