Originally posted by Joker1237
But all in all Joker ant all bad, he had a wife did he not? lol
I don't know if this is in continuity, because I read this in "The killing Joke" by Alan Moore. But who cares ? It was one of the best Batman stories ever.
Ok now to reply to some of these arguments...
Originally posted by Darth Jello
there's a flipside to this, namor in his first few appearances went on a rampage and mercilessly killed hundreds of people in new york. Magnetos killed plenty of people too, especially when he sank the leningrad and when he created EM pulses. i find it hard to root for them.
1) Namor/Magneto did not start these fights, they were reacting to what had been done to them. Namor's whole city was distroyed by the "Surface people" for gods sake and he did not know if his people were all dead or not. What would the U.S do if another country used nuclear bomb to distroy one of its city. I somehow dobt that they are going to forgive and forget, yet when Namor attacks NY because his city was distroyed by the US testing nuclear bombs, he is depicted as the bad guy. As for Magneto, he understands that Humans fear and despice Mutants, he also knows that Mutants are the next evolution. But he also knows that right now there are more Humans than Mutants and that they hold all the position of power. He sees the suffering and killing of Mutants and knows that something must be done. In the end he knows that the only way that humans will ever feel safe from mutants is if they have some form of control over them (Mutant registration act, Gunushua, Sentinals).... Professor X is willing to take the long and peaceful way, while Magnus wants to take the quick and violent way because he belives that in the end it will be less coustly, and more certian method to the Mutants.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
as for the x-men, the page from Marvels describes them best. in case you haven't seen it, they (the original five in yellow and blue) save a mutant girl and are confronted by an angry mob in a dark ally. the only light comes from cyclops' visor. he just stares at the people and says "forget it, they aren't worth it"
It is easy to have morals when you are being protected by the most powerful psychic in the world and you have all the latest technology. While the X-Men are living safely in a mansion and are playing at being heros by protecting the humans from Mutants, more and more mutants are dieing or beaten up or taken away every day. It is all good and well to preach peace and equality when you are hiding behind a mask and have a safe place to go to at the end of the day, but how about all the other mutants who cannot hide thier mutation, and are hounded and chased out of thier home. The ones that are forced to live in the sewers because they have been chased and have no other safe place to go. You have to remember that these are not grown people but children who just hit puberty. I am sorry but if I had Magnito's power and I saw mutants who were nothing but children get hounded and beaten to death with no one being brought to justice on an almost daily bases I would get pissed off and do almost anything to stop it. Have you never asked yourself why Magneto had such a huge following. He tried to use any means to insure the survival of mutants right at this moment while Xavier was willing to sacrifice the present to insure a more secure and peacful future.
Originally posted by who?-kid
True, Reed Richards doesn't care much about alien laws or foreign cultures. But, again, he tries to do what he thinks is right. And that's important. That IS the whole idea of being a hero.
Does this also mean that he can go into a church and call the priest a lier and a fraud or call the people who have come to attend church fools and ignorant, just because he does not belive in a God. Just because you belive something is right does not make it so. Most phychopath belive that what they are doing is right and just, are you going to say it is fine for them to do that. Who is he to question the laws and ideologies of other coutries let alone other worlds and civilizations. Just because he is smart he assumes that he knows what is best for everyone else, yet when a more advanced/older/smarter race comes and tells them that earths law/people/ideology is wrong/primitive, what does he say? He demands to know what right they have to dictate how anyone should live thier life, and then goes on to say that Humans may not be perfect but that is something that they have to face and solve on thier own.... Anyone else see the contradiction here 😒
Originally posted by who?-kid
So ? I don't mind. Just because at that specific time a villain wasn't building a robot army to conquer the world or wasn't robbing a bank, you have to say : hey look, it's (insert any villain here), but it seems today he's on holiday, so just let's leave him alone. Yeah right, let's kick his ass !!
So... what you are saying is that Heroes don't have to obey the law and can beat up an innocent man without any concequences. If you are just going to allow heroes to beat up a villan as soon as he is out of jail for no reason other than that he has commited a crime before, why not just keep him locked up for the rest of his life... Look the whole point of a prison time is so that you can pay for your crimes, but once you have paid for your crimes you should not have to be harrased for it, especially by civilians (which is what most of the heroes are). I am sorry but if a Hero picks on a Villan for no reason then the Hero should be arrested and face charges just like a Villan would if he started a fight with a Hero, you can not have two different set of rules.
Originally posted by who?-kid
I don't know, but Spider-Man has been wanted by the police countless of times. Of course he's never been arrested (not that I know of), because trying to arrest a superhero and actually putting him behind bars are two completely different stories. Lots of heroes have been wanted by the police.
That is another thing that pisses me off. When a hero is accuesed of crime and has a warrent out for his arrest, suddenly all other heroes aviod the task of capturing him (most of the time because they belive him to be innocent), but when a villan is involved they are out hunting him even before the police have written out a warrent for them. Doesn't it seem strange that heroes can decide who they capture and who they let go, it is like they are the cops/attornies/judges/jury all rolled up in one. They decide who is guilty, they decide who they go after and they decide on what laws to break in thier capture. If you want to be a hero you have to be willing to go after all those who the law wants arrested for a crime, you cant pick and choose.
Originally posted by who?-kid
You forget these situations are very exceptional. Anybody can make mistakes. Nobody said a hero is without faults.
Ahhh... I don't think the frequencey with which you commit a crime determines weather you are arrested for that crime or not. True... no one is without fault, but when that fault results in the assault of an innocent person, then you have to face the concequences for that. If a cop can get charged for excessive force when arresting a suspect I don't see why heroes can not be arrested for attacking innocent people. Just because you decide that you are going to put on a costume and go out there and capture criminals, does not mean that the law ignores you when you break it.
Originally posted by Joker1237
I sure there is a else world comic somewere were Joker is the hero and Batman the villian lol. But relly I cant think of any Good deeds, Wait I rember, He gave up with out a fight after killing Miss Gordon, Now that was a good deed, just giving up, no more lives were lost that night.
Yes... there is a alternate universe where all the good guys (Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman....) are evil and rule the world, while the bad guys (Joker, Luther.....) are good and are tring to beat the evil "heroes" to bring law and peace to the planet. The JLA went there and tried to help them out, but failed in the end.
Wow... this is a very long post and if you have managed to read it all then give yourself a pat on the back (if you are unable to do so, ask a friend or a family member to assist you), and seat back in your chair with a smug look on your face, for today you have achieved a great deed.
😉
oh.... Almost forgot 😕 there is one more thing in the world of comic that kind of annoys me. Why is it that when a villan decides to become a good guy, all the past crimes are forgotten as if they never occured. Even the heroes who have fought them previously forgive and forget. Is it just me or does this seem a bit crazy.... 🤪
Ok I am done... continue with the smuge look 😆
the one thing that puzzles me about namor is the fact that he always comes to New York,no matter what. whether its to steal sue away, avenge his PPl, or air some greviances. this is puzzling b-cuz his atlantis is in the Anarctic..........the Anarctic man! there are so many other stops to make along the way but noooooooo lets go to New York Harbor. WEIRDO!
Originally posted by manjaro
the one thing that puzzles me about namor is the fact that he always comes to New York,no matter what. whether its to steal sue away, avenge his PPl, or air some greviances. this is puzzling b-cuz his atlantis is in the Anarctic..........the Anarctic man! there are so many other stops to make along the way but noooooooo lets go to New York Harbor. WEIRDO!
He used to live in New York for a number of years when he lost his memory and thought he was human, so when he got back his memory and saw what the US did to his home he came back to NY for retribution (that is when he met Sue and fell for her).
After that it is obvious he would come to NY when he wants to see Sue since she lives there, and since the FF were his major enemy he used to go to NY for most of his invasion since he has to beat them first. Besides he has fought the Avengers and other heroes in other places, I gess he just has a thing for NY.
Originally posted by Lenord
Does this also mean that he can go into a church and call the priest a lier and a fraud or call the people who have come to attend church fools and ignorant, just because he does not belive in a God. Just because you belive something is right does not make it so. Most phychopath belive that what they are doing is right and just, are you going to say it is fine for them to do that. Who is he to question the laws and ideologies of other coutries let alone other worlds and civilizations. Just because he is smart he assumes that he knows what is best for everyone else, yet when a more advanced/older/smarter race comes and tells them that earths law/people/ideology is wrong/primitive, what does he say? He demands to know what right they have to dictate how anyone should live thier life, and then goes on to say that Humans may not be perfect but that is something that they have to face and solve on thier own.... Anyone else see the contradiction here 😒
So... what you are saying is that Heroes don't have to obey the law and can beat up an innocent man without any concequences. If you are just going to allow heroes to beat up a villan as soon as he is out of jail for no reason other than that he has commited a crime before, why not just keep him locked up for the rest of his life... Look the whole point of a prison time is so that you can pay for your crimes, but once you have paid for your crimes you should not have to be harrased for it, especially by civilians (which is what most of the heroes are). I am sorry but if a Hero picks on a Villan for no reason then the Hero should be arrested and face charges just like a Villan would if he started a fight with a Hero, you can not have two different set of rules.
That is another thing that pisses me off. When a hero is accuesed of crime and has a warrent out for his arrest, suddenly all other heroes aviod the task of capturing him (most of the time because they belive him to be innocent), but when a villan is involved they are out hunting him even before the police have written out a warrent for them. Doesn't it seem strange that heroes can decide who they capture and who they let go, it is like they are the cops/attornies/judges/jury all rolled up in one. They decide who is guilty, they decide who they go after and they decide on what laws to break in thier capture. If you want to be a hero you have to be willing to go after all those who the law wants arrested for a crime, you cant pick and choose.
Second, heroes have enough experience to know that it's very risky to try to arrest a (former) colleague because most heroes have been framed before. They know each other, and realize that when a hero is wanted by the police, it's probably some evil scheme put together by a super villain. What do you think ? That your average hero - who has nothing to do with the law - drops everything and hunts down the probably falsely accused hero ? Yeah right.
Ahhh... I don't think the frequencey with which you commit a crime determines weather you are arrested for that crime or not. True... no one is without fault, but when that fault results in the assault of an innocent person, then you have to face the concequences for that. If a cop can get charged for excessive force when arresting a suspect I don't see why heroes can not be arrested for attacking innocent people. Just because you decide that you are going to put on a costume and go out there and capture criminals, does not mean that the law ignores you when you break it.
oh.... Almost forgot 😕 there is one more thing in the world of comic that kind of annoys me. Why is it that when a villan decides to become a good guy, all the past crimes are forgotten as if they never occured. Even the heroes who have fought them previously forgive and forget. Is it just me or does this seem a bit crazy.... 🤪
Ok I am done...
Originally posted by Lenord
It is easy to have morals when you are being protected by the most powerful psychic in the world and you have all the latest technology.
At least the X-Men have morals.
While the X-Men are living safely in a mansion
and are playing at being heros by protecting the humans from Mutants
It is all good and well to preach peace and equality when you are hiding behind a mask and have a safe place to go to at the end of the day, but how about all the other mutants who cannot hide thier mutation, and are hounded and chased out of thier home.
When you save as much mutants as you can (live Xavier tries to do), you're a good man. When you can't save all mutants, then you suddenly aren't a good man anymore ? That doesn't make sense.The ones that are forced to live in the sewers because they have been chased and have no other safe place to go. You have to remember that these are not grown people but children who just hit puberty. I am sorry but if I had Magnito's power and I saw mutants who were nothing but children get hounded and beaten to death with no one being brought to justice on an almost daily bases I would get pissed off and do almost anything to stop it. Have you never asked yourself why Magneto had such a huge following.
No I haven't, because Magneto is a dumb f***. He only cares about the mutants, and all the rest can just rot in hell as far as he's concerned. Do not portray him as a noble fighter for equal rights, because he isn't. Xavier is. Magneto isn't.
Xavier wants peace and equal rights. Magneto wants war, a war that will only make the hate and fear for mutants even stronger ! Now, who's the clever one ?
Originally posted by who?-kid
Safely in a mansion ? Pff, I'm not going to count the times it has been attacked and (partly) destroyed.
Come on the mansion is heavely defended and is hidden from the public knowlege so it is pretty safe. For a mutant it is one of the safest places to be. At the end of the day the X-Men can feel safe and secure at the mansion knowing that they are safe from the general public hounding them, and they don't have to worry about hiding who they are because someone might see them and tell everyone.
Originally posted by who?-kid
You know, X-Men got hurt or died while protecting the humans (even the humans who hate mutants). You really should give them more credit.
I am not saying they havent, but while they are tring to save the humans a lot of mutants are getting hurt and killed, what about them? You see Prof X's whole plan is to make humans relise that they don't have to fear mutants, and he does these by using the X-Men to help humans and make them heroes. When people see mutants risking thier lifes for humans by fighting other mutants then some will change thier mind and dislike/fear mutants less. However if people were to see the X-Men spending thier time helping mutants by fighting humans then it would just alienate them from the humans, beacase they will see it as mutants attacking humans to save one of thier own. Prof X knows these that is why the X-Men spend most of thier time fighting for humans instead of Mutants (unless it is something really huge that endangers all mutants, like the sentinals).
Originally posted by who?-kid
What about them ? You seriously can not expect from Xavier that he invites every mutant of the United States into his mansion ?! Are you going to pay for them ? And there simply is no room for them.When you save as much mutants as you can (live Xavier tries to do), you're a good man. When you can't save all mutants, then you suddenly aren't a good man anymore ? That doesn't make sense.
I am not saying he should help all mutants, but the fact is that unless he wants to recruit them for his team he very rearly helps Mutants.
Originally posted by who?-kid
No I haven't, because Magneto is a dumb f***. He only cares about the mutants, and all the rest can just rot in hell as far as he's concerned. Do not portray him as a noble fighter for equal rights, because he isn't. Xavier is. Magneto isn't.Xavier wants peace and equal rights. Magneto wants war, a war that will only make the hate and fear for mutants even stronger ! Now, who's the clever one ?
Look if the whole world, including the government is turned against your kind what would you do. If you saw young kids getting beaten up and killed on a daily bases, just because they are Mutants while the law and government does nothing (or hounds and punishes the kids for defending themselves), what would you do. You guys forget that this are children we are talking about not adults. Would you just stand by and watch, and wait for a couple of years until the human race and the government finally decides that what they have been doing is wrong. Or even worse would you wait and watch as the humans tagged and branded the Mutants as cattle and put them in some kind of concentration camp.
Xavier may want peace and equal rights, but he is doing so at the cost of all the young mutants that are dieing every day. Stop thinking this is a war waged by Magneto on the Human race, the war started long before Magneto entered the picture and it was the Humans that started it, so stop blaming Magneto for everything and stop putting Xavier on a pedestal.
P.S Magneto has never wanted to distroy the Humans because he knows that they will eventually die out in two or three generations time. He just wants to be in charge and make sure that no mutants get hurt anymore.
Originally posted by who?-kidWell, you know, he IS smart, and in most cases, he KNOWS best. That's a fact. You probably won't agree, but in lots of cases where he was bossing around foreign cultures, he was right all the way.
[/B]
Why do people always confuse intelect with wisdom. You can be the smartest person in the world but that does not mean you know what is best for someone let alone a whole world or country. Take Doom for example, he is one of the smartest people in the world but I would not take any moral guidance from him, would you... In the end everything comes to a point of view and the problem with smart people like Reed and Doom is that they think that their point of view is the only one that is valid (or right). Reed is selfinvolved and spends most of his time in his lab building his next big thing, what would he know about Human nature or what is best for everyone else.
Originally posted by who?-kidI was (obvious) talking about a criminal, a villain who was still walking around while he should be behind bars. Of course heroes have to leave an ex-villain, who has done his time, alone. I was only speaking about, let's say, villains such as Carnage, Joker, Green Goblin, Ultron, Kang, whatever. People (or robots 🙂) who always are on the wrong side of the road..
Yea, but I have seen comic where the hero attacks the villan because he assumes incorrectly that he has done something wrong. I have even witnessed a villan getting arrested after the fight is over even though he is innocent....
Originally posted by who?-kidNo. I don't agree. First of all, heroes are not the law. Some work for the government (Avengers, Alpha Flight) but most don't. Again, they are not the law, they don't work for the law and they didn't make the law. An average hero certainly respects the law, but doesn't care that much about breaking some (little) rules - maybe with the exception of Captain America 🙂.[/B]
If a group works for the government then it is working in accordance with the law, so if there is a warrent out for a person with super powers it is thier job to capture that person, not to decide if the person is guilty or not, that is upto the court/Police/DA to decide. Just like FBI deals with special cases that the local police can not deal with it is the Avengers duty to deal with cases that the local police can't handle like people with super powers.
Originally posted by who?-kid
Second, heroes have enough experience to know that it's very risky to try to arrest a (former) colleague because most heroes have been framed before. They know each other, and realize that when a hero is wanted by the police, it's probably some evil scheme put together by a super villain. What do you think ? That your average hero - who has nothing to do with the law - drops everything and hunts down the probably falsely accused hero ? Yeah right.
[/B]
I could understand someone like Daredevil letting an accused Hero go free because he can tell when someone is telling the truth, but how can the others decide on thier own if someone is guilty or innocent just because it has been known for a hero to be framed before. If you are there to uphold the law as a Hero then you can not pick and choose when and where you obay the law. If you can not do that then you should not be doing the job. I find it amazing sometimes that the heroes should fear and distrust the law, when they claim that they are there to inforce it.
Originally posted by who?-kidVery true, but you simplify things too much : I haven't seen that much heroes beating up completely innocent bystanders.[/B]
It might not happen very regularly but it has happened a number of times (with no consequences for the hero, other than a few bad press). I don't get how they can get away with things that anyone else would not.
Here we go again...
Originally posted by Lenord
Come on the mansion is heavely defended and is hidden from the public knowlege so it is pretty safe. For a mutant it is one of the safest places to be. At the end of the day the X-Men can feel safe and secure at the mansion knowing that they are safe from the general public hounding them, and they don't have to worry about hiding who they are because someone might see them and tell everyone.
And it seems that you have a problem with the fact that the X-Men are able to feel (relatively) safe in the X-mansion. Everybody has the right to feel safe.
And before you can say : "But what about the other mutants ?" => you have to be realistic, nobody can save all people or mutants. Magneto can't, Xavier can't. You can't hold prof X responsible for every dead mutant. I am not saying they havent, but while they are tring to save the humans a lot of mutants are getting hurt and killed, what about them? You see Prof X's whole plan is to make humans relise that they don't have to fear mutants, and he does these by using the X-Men to help humans and make them heroes. When people see mutants risking thier lifes for humans by fighting other mutants then some will change thier mind and dislike/fear mutants less. However if people were to see the X-Men spending thier time helping mutants by fighting humans then it would just alienate them from the humans, beacase they will see it as mutants attacking humans to save one of thier own. Prof X knows these that is why the X-Men spend most of thier time fighting for humans instead of Mutants (unless it is something really huge that endangers all mutants, like the sentinals).
You make things too complicated. The X-Men fight for anybody, human or mutant. Of course, because they are mutants, and because they live in a mansion inhabited by only mutants, they fight or help more mutants than let's say the Avengers. I am not saying he should help all mutants, but the fact is that unless he wants to recruit them for his team he very rearly helps Mutants.
No no, that's not true. Everybody is welcome at the X-mansion. Has he ever turned somebody down, somebody who asked his help ?
Xavier may want peace and equal rights, but he is doing so at the cost of all the young mutants that are dieing every day. Stop thinking this is a war waged by Magneto on the Human race, the war started long before Magneto entered the picture and it was the Humans that started it, so stop blaming Magneto for everything and stop putting Xavier on a pedestal.
I never put Xavier on a pedestal. Show me where I exaggerated, and I'll admit I was wrong. But you attack him for the wrong reasons. You blame him for not helping ALL the mutants (which he just can't, nobody can).
That's like saying Mother Theresa sucks because she couldn't help every beggar in Calcutta.
And you're wrong about the war part. There never was a real war between humans and mutants. The "real war", if we can call it that way, was started by Magneto, and by nobody else ! It was Magneto who threw oil on the fire, and who turned the fear of humans for mutants into hate.
Magneto has lots of blood on his hands, most by his own fault.
P.S Magneto has never wanted to distroy the Humans because he knows that they will eventually die out in two or three generations time.
Oh he knows that ? Must be fun to be clairvoyant.
Originally posted by Lenord
Why do people always confuse intelect with wisdom. You can be the smartest person in the world but that does not mean you know what is best for someone let alone a whole world or country. Take Doom for example, he is one of the smartest people in the world but I would not take any moral guidance from him, would you... In the end everything comes to a point of view and the problem with smart people like Reed and Doom is that they think that their point of view is the only one that is valid (or right). Reed is selfinvolved and spends most of his time in his lab building his next big thing, what would he know about Human nature or what is best for everyone else.
Yea, but I have seen comic where the hero attacks the villan because he assumes incorrectly that he has done something wrong. I have even witnessed a villan getting arrested after the fight is over even though he is innocent....
[B][QUOTE]If a group works for the government then it is working in accordance with the law, so if there is a warrent out for a person with super powers it is thier job to capture that person, not to decide if the person is guilty or not, that is upto the court/Police/DA to decide. Just like FBI deals with special cases that the local police can not deal with it is the Avengers duty to deal with cases that the local police can't handle like people with super powers.
I could understand someone like Daredevil letting an accused Hero go free because he can tell when someone is telling the truth, but how can the others decide on thier own if someone is guilty or innocent just because it has been known for a hero to be framed before. If you are there to uphold the law as a Hero then you can not pick and choose when and where you obay the law. If you can not do that then you should not be doing the job. I find it amazing sometimes that the heroes should fear and distrust the law, when they claim that they are there to inforce it.
It might not happen very regularly but it has happened a number of times (with no consequences for the hero, other than a few bad press). I don't get how they can get away with things that anyone else would not.
I'm not arguing it never happened, but it won't be lots of times.
Originally posted by who?-kid
Here we go again...It may be heavily defended, but the fact remains it has been attacked and partly destroyed more than once.
And it seems that you have a problem with the fact that the X-Men are able to feel (relatively) safe in the X-mansion. Everybody has the right to feel safe.
And before you can say : "But what about the other mutants ?" => you have to be realistic, nobody can save all people or mutants. Magneto can't, Xavier can't. You can't hold prof X responsible for every dead mutant.
I am not begrudging the X-Men their sense of security within the mansion, but the reason I brought it up in the beginning was to point out that it is very easy to preach about equality and turning the other cheeck and not retaliating when you know that you can sleep safely and soundly at night because you know that you are safe from humans who might come to your house in the middle of the night and attack you.
Also I am not holding Xavier responsible for every dead mutant, I am just stating the fact that he spends most of his energy fighting for the humans rather than fighting for the mutants... Just because you want peace does not mean that you have to move all the way to the other camp just to get thier trust and understanding...
Originally posted by who?-kid
You make things too complicated. The X-Men fight for anybody, human or mutant. Of course, because they are mutants, and because they live in a mansion inhabited by only mutants, they fight or help more mutants than let's say the Avengers.
At the beginning the Avengers were mostly made of God/s and Americans so of course they would not fight for mutants. They would not fight for other coutiries either because it did not concern them or they did not care about it. But if anything should endenger thier interests (like USA, World or Asgard) then they fought for it. Later on it came to have too close a link with the government so they could no longer do anything that was politically to sencitive like get into the whole Mutant rights thing.
The X-Men however were a group of Mutants formed to help Mutants, so forgive me if I find it a little odd that most of thier time is spent helping humans...
Originally posted by who?-kid
No no, that's not true. Everybody is welcome at the X-mansion. Has he ever turned somebody down, somebody who asked his help ?
hehe... The location of the mantion is a top secret information that is only know to a few people so how in the world are mutants ment to find it. He does not need to turn people away, the only ones that can find him are the ones that are powerful enough to handle themselves so it kind of defeates the purpose.
Originally posted by who?-kid
I never put Xavier on a pedestal. Show me where I exaggerated, and I'll admit I was wrong. But you attack him for the wrong reasons. You blame him for not helping ALL the mutants (which he just can't, nobody can).That's like saying Mother Theresa sucks because she couldn't help every beggar in Calcutta.
How can you compare Theresa with Xavier.... She was helping people that were harmless, she was not helping people who would then turn round and attack her own people. Besides she was a healer while Xavier is more of a general/polotician. She would help anyone in need of help because she had no agenda, while Xavier's action is always a calculated move that is ment to help advance his agenda, one action is selfless the other is not...
Originally posted by who?-kid
And you're wrong about the war part. There never was a real war between humans and mutants. The "real war", if we can call it that way, was started by Magneto, and by nobody else ! It was Magneto who threw oil on the fire, and who turned the fear of humans for mutants into hate.Magneto has lots of blood on his hands, most by his own fault.
[B]
Oh he knows that ? Must be fun to be clairvoyant.
What the hell are you talking about, just because they did not all come together and say "we declair war on the Mutant race" does not mean that there was no war. It was just always fought in the shadows. I mean you are talking about a government who had been experimenting on Mutants, a government that allowed the killing and beating up of mutants and even encoraged, a government that was looking for a solution to the "Mutant problem" (no matter how the solution affected the Mutants). I am sorry if all this is not a declaration of war on the Mutant race I don't know what is. Just because Magneto was the first to name it a war people assume he started the whole thing out of the blue for no reason at all. The hate and fear was always there, all Magneto did was shine a light on it so that the world could no longer hide its henious acts in the darkness and pretend that they were doing nothing wrong. They hate him more for showing them this than anything else....
The blood on his hand is nothing compared to the blood that is on the hands of the rest of humanity... Just because they do not attack and kill mutants themselves does not mean that thier hands are clean. The human race sat and did nothing while all these was happening in thier own back yard, that makes them as guilty as everyone else....
Wrong. Magneto was created back in the early sixties. Back then, in comic land, there were no real problems with mutants because there were not that many mutants.
There was no “war that was fought in the shadows”. Yes, there were problems, big problems, there were people who got killed, innocent mutants were hunted or feared, but still, it was NO war. A war is something else, my friend.
But then came Magneto, who never can make up his mind : sometimes he wants to live in peace with the humans, other times he wants to rule humanity. No wonder humans truly fear him. And it doesn’t do much good when you call your fellow mutants “The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants”, that’s like saying : “Yeah that’s right, we’re evil, got a problem with that ?”
Sinking a Russian submarine, trying to conquer a nation, attacking military bases.. do you find it strange that people hate mutants even more than they did before Magneto showed up, declaring he fights for mutants, but only making things much worse for other mutants…
Nobody can deny the fact that Magneto has given mutants a bad name !
Originally posted by who?-kid
Wrong. Magneto was created back in the early sixties. Back then, in comic land, there were no real problems with mutants because there were not that many mutants.There was no “war that was fought in the shadows”. Yes, there were problems, big problems, there were people who got killed, innocent mutants were hunted or feared, but still, it was NO war. A war is something else, my friend.
But then came Magneto, who never can make up his mind : sometimes he wants to live in peace with the humans, other times he wants to rule humanity. No wonder humans truly fear him. And it doesn’t do much good when you call your fellow mutants “The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants”, that’s like saying : “Yeah that’s right, we’re evil, got a problem with that ?”
Sinking a Russian submarine, trying to conquer a nation, attacking military bases.. do you find it strange that people hate mutants even more than they did before Magneto showed up, declaring he fights for mutants, but only making things much worse for other mutants…
Nobody can deny the fact that Magneto has given mutants a bad name !
The comics released in the beginning were a bit bias, since they tended to show the humans as innocent victims of mutants while Magneto was depicted as a one dimentional character that just wanted to conquer the world and nothing more. It was later on that they developed his character to become the person we know now.... This is true of most comic characters (Superman didn't use to fly, Bruce was just a dectective....).
As for the whole "Brotherhood of Evil Mutant", I suspect it is something that the creators did because they had already labeled Magneto as "Evil"... If you read later issues where they flash back to that period or before that period you will see that it is less bias and does not depict everything as one sided.
What is your idea of a war? Are you telling me that if people started killing people just because of the colour of thier skin or thier relegion and the government was doing nothing or even supporting them you would not consider that a declaration of war on those people. War is not always armies or nations fighting one another.
I don't know how you can say there were not a lot of mutants at that time. Not a lot of time has passed (in the comic world) since the forming of the X-Men, yet there are a lot of mutants now, that are the age of Scot and the rest of the first X-Men. So where did they all come from if they were not there at the beginning, since thier powers develope at puberty? Just because they did not show them at the beggining of the title does not mean that they did not exsist.