Originally posted by Evil Dead
Like Backfire, I just started watching this show 3 weeks ago......and have watched it start to finish.My wife borrowed season 1 dvd set from her friend like 2 months ago. We were bored on a saturda morning and put it in to see what all the hub-bub was about. Needless to say we did absolutely nothing else that day.
3 Days later she got seasons 2 and 3. We watched all of those. Since season 4 doesn't release until Dec. on dvd, we watched the entire season on ABC.com from her laptop.
amazing show. great writing. I'm truely impressed. It is addictive. I watched all 4 seasons back to back.......some days watching 12-15 episodes and doing nothing else.
Ay guey, that's a lot of information to take in a comparatively small period of time.
Who's your favorite character? Sayid is my favorite, but I think Locke has the best centric episodes.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
The island is a time warp. When Ben moved it, he didn't move it in space......he moved it in time. This could be the possible reason he woke up in Tunisia in Oct. of 2005........10 months later. John's funeral wasn't until 2007 so they could have moved the island to any time between '04 and '07. Adam and Eve are Desmond and Penelope. Somewhere in the future Penelope will come to the island and both will be transported back in time, live on the island and die in the caves where Jack discovered Adam and Eve. The island was somehow designed by an advanced race in the future (or perhaps distant, unknown past). The people who inhabitted it did not age. Richard is the leader of the survivors of this civilization. He taps others (Ben,John) to be the leader of the group on the island to ensure if it ever needs moved, he will not be the one banished from it as whomever moves it can never return. I don't know if there are any other original "others" as Richard tapped Ben and both have been recruiting people to the island to work. He may be the only original inhabitant left.
So why didn't all the other people on the island (Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Charlette, Lock) follow him to the desert as well?
I don't think he's a member of an advanced race, I think Richard Alpert is created by the same entity/thing that creates all the other hallucinations/apparitions that the various characters have experienced: Ben's mom, Eko's brother etc. (Jacob perhaps?)
Originally posted by Evil Dead
my best guess is that there is some great cataclysm in the future and the island is sent back in time to allow all events from Black Rock crashing to the Dharma Initiative to take place leaving Desmond in the hatch to cause 815 to crash, stranding those specific people on the island as some sort of universal course correction. The examples of fate and unknown interaction between survivors is all to place them on 815 to land on that island and correct the course of the future.....to save the world.
Remember, Ben destroyed that apparent time machine in the Season 4 finale by putting metal in it? So I don't think the island is a time warp, or doomed to end up in an inescapable time loop.
I don't think that Ben went straight from the island to Tunisia, I think he was somewhere else in between those ten months. I think that, because it would be too predictable of an explanation, and this show is anything but predictable.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
furthermore, I believe that Charles Widmore once held the position as leader of the "others". he was on the island when the Black Rock crashed. He purchased the diary of Black Rock's second mate to conceal the fact that he is mentioned in it...or because it is his own. He moved the island and was bannished. He has been searching for the island since. How he knows Ben, I'm not sure.......unless Widmore's search has led him to Richard and Ben off-island as Penelope is too old to allow for Widmore to be the leader on the island when Ben first joined as a boy.somebody asked if Walt would have to return to the island. I don't believe so. His purpose on the island has been fullfilled. His purpose was to be kidnapped, sending Michael out to find him....bringing Jack,Cate, Hurley and Sawyer to the others....setting up the events that happened in season four as Michael came back on the freighter, leading to the current events of the island being moved. (that and the fact that there's no way a 15 year old boy is going to pass for 10...or even 13 if the events of the next season take place 3 years in the future when the Oceanic 6 return to the island). Walt is just like Boone...a pawn. His presence was needed on the island simply to lead the other characters on the path of their destiny to save the world. If Boone hadn't made the plane fall.....no Yemme for Eko to find....no question mark for Eko to see to discover the hatch underneath.
Ofcourse, this is all probably wrong......we'll find out who Jacob is and it will completely f-ck everything up. I do, however, believe that Jeremy is just another original like Richard......or perhaps a slave that was on the Black Rock and Richard was one of the crew.
whether they were both originally on the island or if both crashed in Black Rock, I still think the island itself was sent back in time as a course correction to prevent a cataclysm from happening in the future. All the events that have happened in all the lives of the members of 815 have been fate leading them to the crash on the island to correct the course of the future.
That doesn't explain why he wanted everyone on the island slaughtered. The obvious reason is that he doesn't want the world to know the real location of Oceanic 815. But if Widmore was at one time an Other, then that means he knows the island's location. But he didn't, which is why he needed to buy the diary from the Black Rock. And because the coordinates in the ship's diary were accurate, that mean the island hasn't moved since the ship crashed in the 1800's.
I also don't think that he went through all that trouble just to prevent his daughter from marrying Desmond. I think there's a lot more going on under the surface, as to Widmore's motives. I personally suspect that Charles Widmore was friends or relatives with an original member of the DHARMA Initiative who was killed when Ben gassed the Intiative, and that's why the two are enemies.
---
Also, Jeremy was Locke's alias.
Ay guey, that's a lot of information to take in a comparatively small period of time.Who's your favorite character? Sayid is my favorite, but I think Locke has the best centric episodes.
alot of information......but I feel lucky that I watched them all together back to back instead of spreading it out over years. ALOT of information connects characters together, even by small things like other characters being in the background during flashbacks. I think some of the stuff I may have forgotten and not correlated together had I not watched them all back to back.
Sayid is also my favorite character. Since season 1 I've said, "screw Jack....If I was on that island, I'd be attached to Sayid at the hip". My second favorite is a tie between John and Ben. Locke has the best story so far, whereas Ben's hasn't been fully explained but is surely the most interesting off all the others on the island aswell as crucial to the series plot, just as Locke's is.
So why didn't all the other people on the island (Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Charlette, Lock) follow him to the desert as well?I don't think he's a member of an advanced race, I think Richard Alpert is created by the same entity/thing that creates all the other hallucinations/apparitions that the various characters have experienced: Ben's mom, Eko's brother etc. (Jacob perhaps?)
Nobody followed him to the desert because that's not how it works. Ben states plainly that the one person who moves the island is bannished from the island and can never return. As soon as he turns the wheel to move the island, he wakes up in Tunisia in Oct. 2005.....10 months in the future. It's also noteworthy that when Ben checks into the hotel, they have been expecting him. The events on the island have played out exactly how they were meant to, Ben was supposed to move the island and wake up there/then in Tunisia and register at that hotel.
As far as Richard goes... We have never seen the island manifest a person off the island. We've seen the island manifest Walt to Shannon & Sayid, a horse to Cate and Sawyer, Yemme to Mr. Eko, Christian to Jack, Claire and John, etc. Nobody has had the island manifest a person OFF ISLAND. Yet, when John was a boy in foster care, Richard came to see him and give him a test (what items do you currently own). When Locke gave a wrong answer (the knife, which he did actually own as it's the one he killed Naomie with when he stabbed her in the back) Richard left in disgust saying John wasn't ready. We also see Richard off island recruiting Juliette to come to Portland to work on her research.
I don't know if Richard's from the future and was on the island when it was moved or if he was on Black Rock when it crashed. Either way, he's the true leader of the "others" as he's been there the longest and is the one who takes Ben in as a boy and Locke reports to at the end of season 4 when Ben goes to move the island.
Remember, Ben destroyed that apparent time machine in the Season 4 finale by putting metal in it? So I don't think the island is a time warp, or doomed to end up in an inescapable time loop.
that time closet was built by Dharma. They happened to build it on the exact wall where the wheel that moves the island is hidden because they said that area contained special properties. Dharma Initiative started there in 1980.... a long time after Black Rock had crashed there. The island has been there a long time, they just built their own time machine next to the hidden wheel that moves the island because of the special properties that allow for time travel that exist there.
as for Ben being somewhere else for 10 months, perhaps......but that isn't alluded to. Ben merely opens his eyes, wearing the same clothes he was when he turned the wheel and it's 10 months later. Furthermore, in an earlier flashback we saw a female archaelogist find the remains of a polar bear wearing a Dharma collar in that exact same desert in Tunisia. That lends credibility to the idea that the desert in Tunisia is the "out" door of the island when something is kicked off of it or transported off it through time.
That doesn't explain why he wanted everyone on the island slaughtered. The obvious reason is that he doesn't want the world to know the real location of Oceanic 815. But if Widmore was at one time an Other, then that means he knows the island's location. But he didn't, which is why he needed to buy the diary from the Black Rock. And because the coordinates in the ship's diary were accurate, that mean the island hasn't moved since the ship crashed in the 1800's.
I don't know man, it's all guesswork until they explain Widmore's relationship to Ben, how they know each other. I would like to say that nowhere in the show does it state that the island's location was in the journal Widmore bought. Remember, they crashed there...it wasn't their destination. That journal had to get off the island somehow. It's still entirely possible that Widmore was once on the island, he moved it, was bannished just like Ben was in season 4 and has since been trying to get back to the island. Everything in this area is just wild conjecture as it's a new storyline with little-no facts or explanations yet.
As for Widmore wanting everyone dead, he wants the location of the island to be a secret. If there are any survivors, they may make it off the island and tell others where they have been. It's never been said that Widmore even knew there were survivors. One report says Widmore faked the 815 wreckage in the ocean trench to hide the fact there were surviors but then again, the freighter captain says that Ben faked the wreckage which makes more sense since Ben already knew the survivors were on the island and Widmore didn't even know where it was yet let alone if there were any survivors of 815 on it.
It's quite possible that the orders for the freighter crew were to find the island, if anybody is on it....kill them to keep the secret, having no knowledge of 815 crashing there or anybody at all being alive on the island.
as for Jeremy being Locke's alias.............I had a brainfart earlier. I kept thinking Jeremy was the black dude's name who works with the Others. His name is Matthew Abaddon. That's who I was talking about possibly being a slave from Black Rock. I know that's the alias of John in his obituary, funeral in the flash-forward to 2007. I kept thinking it was Matthew's name too for some reason. I'm guessing Jack knew it was Locke based on the picture in the obit and not the name.
One thing that still hasn't been explained. In a season 1 flashback Locke takes a personal call at work. The voice on the other end refers to him as "the colonel". no explanation given yet. That was before it was even revealed that he was in a wheelchair or how he got in it. I'm wondering if they're still going to do something with that or if it was a direction the writers were going to go but changed their mind hoping fans wouldn't remember.
There are numerous examples of time travel in the show.......thought I would just throw this out there aswell since it was in season 1 and perhaps not everybody remembers it.
Hurley has been the self-aware voice of the show. His character is given the lines that point out things that have happened in the show that fans may have watched and pointed out to each other as being odd or not making sense. Especially in the first two seasons. He has many lines that point these things out for comedic affect.
In season 1 or very early season 2, another character says, "where the hell are we?".......Hurley's response is "or when are we?". He waits a few seconds then says, "just kidding dude" and walks off.
sorry about the triple post, I was editing my last post but it took me too long to type this so I surpassed the 15 minutes. 🙁
I just re-read this and don't think I responded to it:
I don't think the island is a time warp, or doomed to end up in an inescapable time loop.
why a time loop? Universe course correction was introduced by Desmond, when he kept saving Charlie's life. He told Charlie that he altered fate when he saved his life so now Desmond keeps seeing visions of the future in which Charlie is going to die, constantly. Charlie is supposed to be dead.....fate demands that he is dead so keeps changing to course correct an event that wasn't supposed to happen, him saving Charlie's life. Desmond kept saving Charlie's life until the course correction happened, something Desmond could not alter.......and Charlie died shutting down the interference signal, talking to Penelope and allowing the events that unfolded at the end of season 4 to unfold. Charlie dying in this way was fate putting itself back on course so the events that were supposed to happen do happen and Charlie is dead, which hs is supposed to be and would have been had Desmond not altered it.
If something happened 5,000 years in the future or 3 years in the future........it's complete possible that fate allowed someone to turn the wheel on the island, allowing it to move back in time to course correct the future. 815 didn't originally crash, everybody lived out there lives never knowing one another. Now fate has decided that 815 must crash and it's survivors are key to keeping this future event that was never supposed to happen from occurring. Perhaps Jack, Hurley, Cate, etc. weren't originally on 815. The events in all of their lives, affecting one another without ever knowing it, crossing paths without ever meeting, etc. was fate ensuring that these specific people were going to be on 815 this time 'round, and they were going to crash. These people are the one's fate has determined will stop the event from happening through their direct actions and their interactions with other characters that lead to the other characters direct actions. It wouldn't be a time loop.....it would merely stop an event from happening and events play out as they should for the rest of everybody's lives.
It could be an event in the past that shouldn't have happened and these people's lives were affected by fate to bring them to the island to set things right but it would have to have been a long time ago as Richard went to see John when he was a young boy, presumably 40+ years ago. The only mention of a past "event" thus far in the show was the one that occurred and necessitated Dharma to build the Swan with the 108.00 button in it to release the static charge. That shouldn't be it as it only dates back to 1980.
Originally posted by Evil DeadThe island is a time warp. When Ben moved it, he didn't move it in space......he moved it in time. This could be the possible reason he woke up in Tunisia in Oct. of 2005........10 months later. John's funeral wasn't until 2007 so they could have moved the island to any time between '04 and '07. Adam and Eve are Desmond and Penelope. Somewhere in the future Penelope will come to the island and both will be transported back in time, live on the island and die in the caves where Jack discovered Adam and Eve. The island was somehow designed by an advanced race in the future (or perhaps distant, unknown past). The people who inhabitted it did not age. Richard is the leader of the survivors of this civilization. He taps others (Ben,John) to be the leader of the group on the island to ensure if it ever needs moved, he will not be the one banished from it as whomever moves it can never return. I don't know if there are any other original "others" as Richard tapped Ben and both have been recruiting people to the island to work. He may be the only original inhabitant left.
my best guess is that there is some great cataclysm in the future and the island is sent back in time to allow all events from Black Rock crashing to the Dharma Initiative to take place leaving Desmond in the hatch to cause 815 to crash, stranding those specific people on the island as some sort of universal course correction. The examples of fate and unknown interaction between survivors is all to place them on 815 to land on that island and correct the course of the future.....to save the world.
I'm not so sure about the time loop.
I can't really say what the island is or where it's been before, but I believe the island was either: suspended in time (I'm thinking the same time Ben was "missing from the Earth" as well, 10 months is it?), and then returned to were it was (of course, those on the island have no knowledge of this and haven't felt the effect o being "suspended in time"... Or it was actually moved from it's original position (while either being, or not, suspended in time). The Black Rock is in the middle of the jungle, maybe the island reappeared beneath it
It's good theory you have there (the island being in a loop to save the world) but somehow, it doesn't fly with me. Adam and Eve are a mystery still not explained (the producers said they will be addressed), and them being Desmond and Penny could be possible, but I think is unlikely. I don't think the island was created by an advance culture. most of the things we've seen about it are more organic and quite rudimentary ( a big wheel?, wtf!).
Alpert is a big mystery, maybe he is immortal ...or he was just traveling through time (he met both Ben and Locke about the same age in the past), he is certainly not Jacob (at least that's what we've been told...)... or maybe your right about your guess (him being the real leader of the others... we still don't know.
there's a thing though: maybe he's not the only one; Richard has been seen in the past and has not aged, maybe he is immortal... because there's someone else: Mikhail, while we haven't seen him in the past, he certainly just won't die, he survived the sonic defense of Otherville, he got shot but still managed to kill Charlie... is he immortal? or just plain lucky?
furthermore, I believe that Charles Widmore once held the position as leader of the "others". he was on the island when the Black Rock crashed. He purchased the diary of Black Rock's second mate to conceal the fact that he is mentioned in it...or because it is his own. He moved the island and was bannished. He has been searching for the island since. How he knows Ben, I'm not sure.......unless Widmore's search has led him to Richard and Ben off-island as Penelope is too old to allow for Widmore to be the leader on the island when Ben first joined as a boy.
I believed this too: Widmore clearly knows a lot about the island, and both Ben and him seen to have a set of rule as to how to play their power struggle over the island, maybe he was once the leader of the others, but was forced to "move" the island, and thus he couldn't return... Ben knew what happened to one that moves the island (as it would come to happen to him as well). Furthermore Widmore said to Ben that everything he owns he took from him... The Dharma initiative didn't return to the island, because they couldn't find again, as it was moved... Widmore couldn't returned, until he found the island (once it location was revealed after the electromagnetic implosion), Penelope located the island this way too, (or was aware of it as seen in S2 finale) and was helped by Desmond's call. Ben can't returned and he obviously been in and out of the island, is impossible that he couldn't remember how to get back...Neither Ben or Charles know where the Island is now and they are in a race to find them (not to mention that this helps to proved the island was actually moved)
somebody asked if Walt would have to return to the island. I don't believe so. His purpose on the island has been fullfilled. His purpose was to be kidnapped, sending Michael out to find him....bringing Jack,Cate, Hurley and Sawyer to the others....setting up the events that happened in season four as Michael came back on the freighter, leading to the current events of the island being moved. (that and the fact that there's no way a 15 year old boy is going to pass for 10...or even 13 if the events of the next season take place 3 years in the future when the Oceanic 6 return to the island). Walt is just like Boone...a pawn. His presence was needed on the island simply to lead the other characters on the path of their destiny to save the world. If Boone hadn't made the plane fall.....no Yemme for Eko to find....no question mark for Eko to see to discover the hatch underneath.
I disagree. I still think Walt will play some part of the things to come. His strange abilities have not yet been explained (the dead birds and such) I don't think they are just gonna leave that: It was an important focus during S1 and S2 and while he wasn't in S3, he was mention and hinted at in the mobisodes (which were new scenes shot, not cut material from past seasons): he's abilities were one of the reason he was kidnapped, it wasn't so that Michael would go after him and them bring the others with him.
Ben had Michael bring Jack to operate on him... the others were brought as collateral (to persuade Jack)... Hurley was just there to be sent away with the message (as Michael won't be returning). Ben did this for his well-being and not for the island. maybe that's why Jacob/Island was not communicating with him, got mad at him and replaced him with Locke.
The others kidnapped children (maybe as potential leaders, the pregnancy thing as already been explained) but Walt's abilities really frightened most of the others (as seen in the mobisodes) and so, they didn't mind let him go with Michael.
And there's the thing of the show moving 3 years into the present (not the future). This easily allows for the actor to comeback to the show and play Walt the actual age he is... and I must say that's brilliant writing...
I do, however, believe that Abaddon is just another original like Richard......or perhaps a slave that was on the Black Rock and Richard was one of the crew.
It's also noteworthy that when Ben checks into the hotel, they have been expecting him. The events on the island have played out exactly how they were meant to, Ben was supposed to move the island and wake up there/then in Tunisia and register at that hotel.
We have never seen the island manifest a person off the island. We've seen the island manifest Walt to Shannon & Sayid, a horse to Cate and Sawyer, Yemme to Mr. Eko, Christian to Jack, Claire and John, etc. Nobody has had the island manifest a person OFF ISLAND.
Furthermore, in an earlier flashback we saw a female archaelogist find the remains of a polar bear wearing a Dharma collar in that exact same desert in Tunisia. That lends credibility to the idea that the desert in Tunisia is the "out" door of the island when something is kicked off of it or transported off it through time.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
....
why a time loop? Universe course correction was introduced by Desmond, when he kept saving Charlie's life. He told Charlie that he altered fate when he saved his life so now Desmond keeps seeing visions of the future in which Charlie is going to die, constantly. Charlie is supposed to be dead.....fate demands that he is dead so keeps changing to course correct an event that wasn't supposed to happen, him saving Charlie's life. Desmond kept saving Charlie's life until the course correction happened, something Desmond could not alter.......and Charlie died shutting down the interference signal, talking to Penelope and allowing the events that unfolded at the end of season 4 to unfold. Charlie dying in this way was fate putting itself back on course so the events that were supposed to happen do happen and Charlie is dead, which hs is supposed to be and would have been had Desmond not altered it.If something happened 5,000 years in the future or 3 years in the future........it's complete possible that fate allowed someone to turn the wheel on the island, allowing it to move back in time to course correct the future. 815 didn't originally crash, everybody lived out there lives never knowing one another. Now fate has decided that 815 must crash and it's survivors are key to keeping this future event that was never supposed to happen from occurring. Perhaps Jack, Hurley, Cate, etc. weren't originally on 815. The events in all of their lives, affecting one another without ever knowing it, crossing paths without ever meeting, etc. was fate ensuring that these specific people were going to be on 815 this time 'round, and they were going to crash. These people are the one's fate has determined will stop the event from happening through their direct actions and their interactions with other characters that lead to the other characters direct actions. It wouldn't be a time loop.....it would merely stop an event from happening and events play out as they should for the rest of everybody's lives.
It could be an event in the past that shouldn't have happened and these people's lives were affected by fate to bring them to the island to set things right but it would have to have been a long time ago as Richard went to see John when he was a young boy, presumably 40+ years ago. The only mention of a past "event" thus far in the show was the one that occurred and necessitated Dharma to build the Swan with the 108.00 button in it to release the static charge. That shouldn't be it as it only dates back to 1980.
Except though... Desmond kept saving Charlie, when Charlie was supposed to die... everything Desmond saw came true, even when he interfered to save Charlie, but one thing never came true: Desmond said Charlie needed to die in the "Looking Glass station" so that Claire will get on the helicopter... that never happened... Claire is pretty much dead for all we know. I don't think Desmond was lying about his vision, just so that he could save his ass, he was going to go instead of Charlie, but Charlie knocked him out, so... What happened there?
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
[B]So why didn't all the other people on the island (Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Charlette, Lock) follow him to the desert as well?
I don't think he's a member of an advanced race, I think Richard Alpert is created by the same entity/thing that creates all the other hallucinations/apparitions that the various characters have experienced: Ben's mom, Eko's brother etc. (Jacob perhaps?)
This is something I have also thought about. Claire seems to be dead, but she was with Sawyer and Miles, carrying Aaron, and only Miles seemed to noticed something about Claire... and he's so interested in dead or death sentenced people (Michael). Maybe that's what happens with Alpert... not to mention that the actor is only back in the show, cuz his other show got canceled... not everybody has secured job in LOST, not even having a contract, anybody can be written off, and back on, the show at any given time...
Remember, Ben destroyed that apparent time machine in the Season 4 finale by putting metal in it? So I don't think the island is a time warp, or doomed to end up in an inescapable time loop.I don't think that Ben went straight from the island to Tunisia, I think he was somewhere else in between those ten months. I think that, because it would be too predictable of an explanation, and this show is anything but predictable.
That doesn't explain why he wanted everyone on the island slaughtered. The obvious reason is that he doesn't want the world to know the real location of Oceanic 815. But if Widmore was at one time an Other, then that means he knows the island's location. But he didn't, which is why he needed to buy the diary from the Black Rock. And because the coordinates in the ship's diary were accurate, that mean the island hasn't moved since the ship crashed in the 1800's.I also don't think that he went through all that trouble just to prevent his daughter from marrying Desmond. I think there's a lot more going on under the surface, as to Widmore's motives. I personally suspect that Charles Widmore was friends or relatives with an original member of the DHARMA Initiative who was killed when Ben gassed the Intiative, and that's why the two are enemies.
We got a lot to discuss and speculate about until the show comes back...
Originally posted by Evil Dead
alot of information......but I feel lucky that I watched them all together back to back instead of spreading it out over years. ALOT of information connects characters together, even by small things like other characters being in the background during flashbacks. I think some of the stuff I may have forgotten and not correlated together had I not watched them all back to back.
And I must say, I'm impressed. I've been a rabid fan since the show debuted in 2004. And based on your knowledge and enthusiasm, I would've guessed the same. The one advantage that I have, from having been a fan from day 1, is that I've had time to mull things over and consider many possibilities.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
Sayid is also my favorite character. Since season 1 I've said, "screw Jack....If I was on that island, I'd be attached to Sayid at the hip". My second favorite is a tie between John and Ben. Locke has the best story so far, whereas Ben's hasn't been fully explained but is surely the most interesting off all the others on the island aswell as crucial to the series plot, just as Locke's is.
Sayid is my favorite, because he reminds me of myself. I'm a former soldier, done some things I'm not proud of, and I tend not to trust people. When Ben made his debut in "One of Them", I would've acted the same way towards "Henry Gale". If Carlton Cuse had decided to kill Sayid off, I honestly don't think I'd be watching anymore.
Locke does have the best story. He's a jack-of-all-trades who's been everywhere and done everything. I also like the fact that life always shits on him, but he's still a good man. And the fact that he was able to walk after the crash was an interesting plot device. He's a good tracker and scout. If I was lost in the woods with any of them, I would rather be with Locke. (Did that sound gay? 😕 )
Jack isn't my favorite character, but I still like him. I certainly wouldn't say "Screw Jack". The second you broke your arm, you'd be kissing his ass. My only complaint is that the fact that he's a doctor tends to cloud his better jusdgement, be cause he always has to be Captain Morality.
And Ben is just a dick. It doesn't matter that he let Mike and Walt go; that was just to make himself look good to his followers. When his daughter was killed in cold blood, I felt bad for her, but not him. He has no redeeming qualities as far as I'm concerned.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
Nobody followed him to the desert because that's not how it works. Ben states plainly that the one person who moves the island is bannished from the island and can never return. As soon as he turns the wheel to move the island, he wakes up in Tunisia in Oct. 2005.....10 months in the future. It's also noteworthy that when Ben checks into the hotel, they have been expecting him. The events on the island have played out exactly how they were meant to, Ben was supposed to move the island and wake up there/then in Tunisia and register at that hotel.As far as Richard goes... We have never seen the island manifest a person off the island. We've seen the island manifest Walt to Shannon & Sayid, a horse to Cate and Sawyer, Yemme to Mr. Eko, Christian to Jack, Claire and John, etc. Nobody has had the island manifest a person OFF ISLAND. Yet, when John was a boy in foster care, Richard came to see him and give him a test (what items do you currently own). When Locke gave a wrong answer (the knife, which he did actually own as it's the one he killed Naomie with when he stabbed her in the back) Richard left in disgust saying John wasn't ready. We also see Richard off island recruiting Juliette to come to Portland to work on her research.
I don't know if Richard's from the future and was on the island when it was moved or if he was on Black Rock when it crashed. Either way, he's the true leader of the "others" as he's been there the longest and is the one who takes Ben in as a boy and Locke reports to at the end of season 4 when Ben goes to move the island.
that time closet was built by Dharma. They happened to build it on the exact wall where the wheel that moves the island is hidden because they said that area contained special properties. Dharma Initiative started there in 1980.... a long time after Black Rock had crashed there. The island has been there a long time, they just built their own time machine next to the hidden wheel that moves the island because of the special properties that allow for time travel that exist there.
as for Ben being somewhere else for 10 months, perhaps......but that isn't alluded to. Ben merely opens his eyes, wearing the same clothes he was when he turned the wheel and it's 10 months later. Furthermore, in an earlier flashback we saw a female archaelogist find the remains of a polar bear wearing a Dharma collar in that exact same desert in Tunisia. That lends credibility to the idea that the desert in Tunisia is the "out" door of the island when something is kicked off of it or transported off it through time.
You're right. After it was too late to edit, I remembered that he got the boot after he moved it. And I also remembered that his arm was still injured upon waking up in the desert, from when the ladder broke.
The female archaeologist was Charlotte, from Naomi's team. Maybe Ben trained the bears to turn the crank by putting food on it, and that's how they ended up in the Sahara.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
I don't know man, it's all guesswork until they explain Widmore's relationship to Ben, how they know each other. I would like to say that nowhere in the show does it state that the island's location was in the journal Widmore bought. Remember, they crashed there...it wasn't their destination. That journal had to get off the island somehow. It's still entirely possible that Widmore was once on the island, he moved it, was bannished just like Ben was in season 4 and has since been trying to get back to the island. Everything in this area is just wild conjecture as it's a new storyline with little-no facts or explanations yet.As for Widmore wanting everyone dead, he wants the location of the island to be a secret. If there are any survivors, they may make it off the island and tell others where they have been. It's never been said that Widmore even knew there were survivors. One report says Widmore faked the 815 wreckage in the ocean trench to hide the fact there were surviors but then again, the freighter captain says that Ben faked the wreckage which makes more sense since Ben already knew the survivors were on the island and Widmore didn't even know where it was yet let alone if there were any survivors of 815 on it.
It's quite possible that the orders for the freighter crew were to find the island, if anybody is on it....kill them to keep the secret, having no knowledge of 815 crashing there or anybody at all being alive on the island.
as for Jeremy being Locke's alias.............I had a brainfart earlier. I kept thinking Jeremy was the black dude's name who works with the Others. His name is Matthew Abaddon. That's who I was talking about possibly being a slave from Black Rock. I know that's the alias of John in his obituary, funeral in the flash-forward to 2007. I kept thinking it was Matthew's name too for some reason. I'm guessing Jack knew it was Locke based on the picture in the obit and not the name.
One thing that still hasn't been explained. In a season 1 flashback Locke takes a personal call at work. The voice on the other end refers to him as "the colonel". no explanation given yet. That was before it was even revealed that he was in a wheelchair or how he got in it. I'm wondering if they're still going to do something with that or if it was a direction the writers were going to go but changed their mind hoping fans wouldn't remember.
A few months ago I made a post where I suggested that Ben and Charles had been in on it all along, as if it was some kind of competition or wager. That the Others and survivors were like gamepieces, and that Alex was killed in the melee. I still think that's a possibility.
You're right, Locke being refered to as "Colonel" still has to be expanded on.
And Matthew Abbadon a slave? 🤨 But at this point, who knows...
Originally posted by Evil Dead
There are numerous examples of time travel in the show.......thought I would just throw this out there aswell since it was in season 1 and perhaps not everybody remembers it.Hurley has been the self-aware voice of the show. His character is given the lines that point out things that have happened in the show that fans may have watched and pointed out to each other as being odd or not making sense. Especially in the first two seasons. He has many lines that point these things out for comedic affect.
In season 1 or very early season 2, another character says, "where the hell are we?".......Hurley's response is "or when are we?". He waits a few seconds then says, "just kidding dude" and walks off.
I both like and despise Hurley at the same time. I like him because he's always positive and doesn't let anything get to him. In that situation, a group would need someone like that. But I also don't like him, because his presence on the show only serves one purpose: the archeatypical funny fat guy who's the butt of jokes. I think that the inclusion of a stock character actually takes from the show, rather than adding to it. He often reminds me of C-3PO.
I love Hurley, his presence is great and he never fails to make me smile. He's one of the best comic relief characters I've seen in anything. That said, I think he's going to end up being far more in the end then just some stereotypical fat guy. He's going to have some major importance in the end, mark my words.
I also love Ben. He's certainly not a likable character, but he's a villain first and foremost, and I think it's hard to deny that he's a VERY intriguing character. A good villain should be a character that you don't like, but that you can't take your eyes off whenever he's on screen. Ben fits this beautifully.
I've really grown to like Sayid as well. I didn't like him so much when they were doing that Shannon romance, and when she died his mourning got a bit annoying to me, but I love how he's always right about everything. He's pretty badass now.
And Locke, who doesn't like Locke? His character is the most engrossing on the show. As said above, he has the best backstory, and he's so unpredictable. Is he good, is he bad, or somewhere in the middle? Who knows? He's an excellent character.
Desmond is also one of my favorites. As is Jin
Spoiler:.
shame about him dying, but really I don't think it's for real, I expect to see him back in Season 5
But my favorite character may have been Mr. Eko. I LOVE that guy. Mostly because he was pretty much reprising his role as Adabesi from Oz, one of the greatest TV characters ever, and that guy is always just a joy to watch. He pretty much steals the show whenever he's on screen. I was sooo bummed when when he died. Almost lost the will to keep watching the show.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
As far as Richard goes... We have never seen the island manifest a person off the island.
Correction: When Hurley speaks to Charlie after the crash. It obviously wasn't an insane hallucination, because Charlie correctly told him what was going to happen. Also, when Jack saw his dad in his office after they got rescued.
Originally posted by BackFire
I love Hurley, his presence is great and he never fails to make me smile. He's one of the best comic relief characters I've seen in anything. That said, I think he's going to end up being far more in the end then just some stereotypical fat guy. He's going to have some major importance in the end, mark my words.I also love Ben. He's certainly not a likable character, but he's a villain first and foremost, and I think it's hard to deny that he's a VERY intriguing character. A good villain should be a character that you don't like, but that you can't take your eyes off whenever he's on screen. Ben fits this beautifully.
I've really grown to like Sayid as well. I didn't like him so much when they were doing that Shannon romance, and when she died his mourning got a bit annoying to me, but I love how he's always right about everything. He's pretty badass now.
And Locke, who doesn't like Locke? His character is the most engrossing on the show. As said above, he has the best backstory, and he's so unpredictable. Is he good, is he bad, or somewhere in the middle? Who knows? He's an excellent character.
Desmond is also one of my favorites. As is Jin
Spoiler:.
shame about him dying, but really I don't think it's for real, I expect to see him back in Season 5But my favorite character may have been Mr. Eko. I LOVE that guy. Mostly because he was pretty much reprising his role as Adabesi from Oz, one of the greatest TV characters ever, and that guy is always just a joy to watch. He pretty much steals the show whenever he's on screen. I was sooo bummed when when he died. Almost lost the will to keep watching the show.
I also love Hurley, he's my favourite character, because in a way he represents us fans in the show (like Evil Dead pointed out) but still has played a key role in important events on the Island.
I disagree when it's said he's in the show just for comic relief. That's mostly what he seem to do, but I could argue Sawyer it's also comic relief on the show. While Hurley was used mostly like this, by the time we got his first flashback, I knew Hurley was important key piece in the LOST puzzle. He blames himself for bringing bad luck to everyone else and thinks he's the reason the plane crash. I love that episode because it showed that everyone has a potential key role in the things to come, I would have never guessed he was a millionaire, let alone had such bad luck. It was a really funny episode, but a good one; then there's the time he finds the Volkswagen, and he ends up using it and saving almost everyone else. and I don't think it's just by chance he saw the cabin, cuz at the end it didn't help Locke locate it, but I still think there's a lot more to come for his character: communicating with dead people and what not... He's bad luck as been really mean on him: He lost Libby, he lost Charlie, he also lost Sawyer and now he thinks he's crazy... poor guy
About Jin
Spoiler:
I don't think he's dead, he could have easily jumped out of the ship since he was near the heliport pad when it exploded, and that was the last part of the freighter to sink.
....And I'm still waiting for an explanation on Libby...
I both like and despise Hurley at the same time. I like him because he's always positive and doesn't let anything get to him. In that situation, a group would need someone like that. But I also don't like him, because his presence on the show only serves one purpose: the archeatypical funny fat guy who's the butt of jokes. I think that the inclusion of a stock character actually takes from the show, rather than adding to it. He often reminds me of C-3PO.
no dude! hurley is like the key to the whole series. hurley means much more to the series than many of the other characters. he's more important than kate, sayid, sawyer.. he's a big part of the show's mythology.
Originally posted by brocklanders
no dude! hurley is like the key to the whole series. hurley means much more to the series than many of the other characters. he's more important than kate, sayid, sawyer.. he's a big part of the show's mythology.
That's true; the numbers, his visions, and so forth. Hurley has become the key. He's also darker than most comic reliefs, especially in his own episodes. But he still reminds me of C-3PO.