Look at the world around you for a minute.
read some books from people who dedicated their lives to science and astronomy, and see what they say about the existance of God.
See what the Historians have to say about Jesus.
Read the new testament and really ponder on Jesus's teachings.
Find out why he died, and why He was killed by religious Hipocrites.
eternitys a long time to assume things
Originally posted by HiddenPotential
Among the secular historians and writers of antiquity who refer to Christ and Christianity are: Tacitus, the Roman historian, Suetonius; Pliny the younger; Epictetus; Lucian; Aristides; Galenus; Lampridius; Dio Cassius; Hinnerius; Linbanius; Ammianus; Marcellinus; Eunapius; Zosimus.
Others have written whole books against Christianity including Lucian, Celsus, Porphyry, Hierocles, and ajaulian the Apostate. Numerous others, including Jewish writers, have written about Jesus Christ.
I think you're wrong about Pliny; he just mentions Christians. I'm pretty sure that most of the people you listed weren't even alive when Jesus was supposed to be; Tacticus wasn't, Galenus wasn't, Eunapis was way after Christ, as in, hundreds of years after, as was Zosimus, and Dio Cassius was over a hundred years after Christ. Hierocles was about 430AD. So, yeh, almost no contemporary sources at all. Not that it matters if a historical Jesus existes; he'd still just be another cult leader who mannaged to hit it big-time.
Should I care what Astronomers and scientists say? For the record, they are much less likely to be Christian than other groups, as are mathematicians.
I've read the Bible; lot of nonesense, as far as I'm concerned. If I was to convert to a religion, can you give me one good reason to choose Christianity over Buddhism, Hinduism, Judism, Islam, Satanism, or any of the other choices out there?
Originally posted by HiddenPotential
Look at the world around you for a minute.
read some books from people who dedicated their lives to science and astronomy, and see what they say about the existance of God.
See what the Historians have to say about Jesus.
Read the new testament and really ponder on Jesus's teachings.
Find out why he died, and why He was killed by religious Hipocrites.
eternitys a long time to assume things
Hidden - I've read all your posts from the last 2 days & assuming you haven't just signed on here to regurgitate the same old religious pap for a few days and then vanish..
If you are going to stick around, and are dedicated to making every post into a crusade about god and christ - some advice. . .
Some of the people here are very smart.
Some of them like to debate.
Some of them are open to a well constructed sentence that makes a valid point.
You are reaching exactly NONE of them.
Your whining posts are not going to make anyone think "HEY! thats RIGHT- I must go read the bible!!!" - Your tone is condescending and preachy, which *I* have no trouble with as long as it's EARNED - but it's obvious that you aren't reading and considering anything thats being said back to you...
If you are going to get anywhere with your one-man-mission - I'd advise you to make your points a little clearer and back them up with who/what/why... saying "people who study jesus say god DOES exist - so it's official" just makes you look like a loon.
Originally posted by HiddenPotential
Among the secular historians and writers of antiquity who refer to Christ and Christianity are: Tacitus, the Roman historian; Suetonius; Pliny the younger; Epictetus; Lucian; Aristides; Galenus; Lampridius; Dio Cassius; Hinnerius; Linbanius; Ammianus; Marcellinus; Eunapius; Zosimus.
Others have written whole books against Christianity including Lucian, Celsus, Porphyry, Hierocles, and ajaulian the Apostate. Numerous others, including Jewish writers, have written about Jesus Christ.So concluding the fact that you assume things.
Look, pal, I don't know who the hell you think you are telling me I assume things, but you are entirely wrong. I've done more research on this topic than you have, I promise. You're the one making assumptions. You assume that the Bible was written by people who lived in the same time period who had never met each other. You assume that I have done no research on this. You assume that everything in the Bible is to be taken literally. You assume that science is a load of crap, even though you clearly have not taken a thorough, open-minded look into it. And you apparently didn't read my previous posts.
I never said NOBODY other than the Bible talked about Jesus, obviously other people have written about Jesus. What I said was that the Bible is the only historical text that was written during and immediately after Christ's time. (with the exception of the gospels that were ommitted from the Bible because they did not serve the Roman's political needs, which again is proof that it is a load of propagandist bull designed to make you easier to control... well, the people who lived before you at least)
"Look at the world around you for a minute."
Done it more than you have.
"read some books from people who dedicated their lives to science and astronomy, and see what they say about the existance of God."
I don't see the point of this, but again, I've done more of it than you have.
"See what the Historians have to say about Jesus."
The only historians who talk about Jesus are the Christian ones, and therefore worth no more of my time than I have already wasted trying to interpret.
"Read the new testament and really ponder on Jesus's teachings."
I already told you I used to be Christian, so obviously I've done that. Moron.
"Find out why he died, and why He was killed by religious Hipocrites."
Same as above.
"eternitys a long time to assume things"
The same could be said of you. And don't tell me you have "nothing to lose", because this only proves that you believe in Christianity because of fear, and worship your supposedly merciful god because you don't want to go to hell. God hates cowards.
Originally posted by Tex
You're assuming that god actually created man and woman in his vision on the spot. Arm here, leg there, nipple here, etc.But what if evolution was part of his design?
Do you believe the big bang was just a chance happening?
First question:
That is the only possibility of divinity that I am willing to accept, but That is NOT the christian god. I read what you said about Religion, and accept THAT mroe than anything else, but I still am athiest. That Could be true, but I don't know, I can't know.
Second Question:
Omega answered that way better than I could, its 1 or 2 pages back in the evolution thread.
Originally posted by HiddenPotential
not BS, but facts that convince me,
I dont see perfect atmosphere, perfect distance from the sun, a moon that perfectly pulles the tides and clenses intself,etc, just to be mere coincidences.lets say if God did send Jesus to pay you a personal visit, how would you answer his question of why didnt you read the bible?
Hey HP. I don't know what religious persuasion you are of, if any, but I think you are wrong if you believe this world or the rest of the universe is perfect. Think about all the planets showered in asteroids, as barren as deserts, completely devoid of life. Not to mention the fact that one day the sun will expand and implode completely destroying everything in its vicinity (including earth). Earth and the species living on it are an amazing fluke if anything to me and far from perfect.
I want to avoid arguing the issue of belief in god out of fear of judgement.
But yeah, given my point of view and what I've said, do you still find atheism or at least my atheism mind boggling?