The thing about being better at hand to hand is that Spider Man's full punch is shattering regular human bones. So blocks won't work. And Batman is not dodging considering Spider Man's super human agility.
Now it isn't 100% hopeless if Batman has some gas grenades or some crazy thing. But considering Spider Man's spidey sense Batman has little possibility of taking this.
Bats could hod his own hand to hand with Spidey.
The strength of your opponent doesn't really matter.
I've trained a little in kung fu - and you don't try to stop an attack with force, you deflect it. You only need to match a tiny part of your opponent's power to do that - so realistically Bats would be abel to parry Spidey's blows.
But of course, when he's all webbed up in steel-strength glue, he's not gonna be doing any parrying...
well the organic stuff has only been around for the better part of a year or so I think.....I don't know exactly how strong it is.....I think that wolverine broke out of it because i didn't adhere fast enough for the amount that spidey used on him....go to the spiderman vs. wolverine/capa/dd thread and go to about page 80 or (theres a ton of scans) you can see what happened for yourself......
but with enough of it he trapped absorbing man's arm....so who knows...
in anycase spiderman and batman have just about an equal chance of nailing the other with their projectiles which is why I thought this match to be so equal...
Agility will allow Spider Man to connect on his attack. That is how it makes the punch better.
I practice a martial art as well. But the thing is that Spider Man's blows are so powerful that they are like getting hit with with a 10 ton truck. Even deflected they are going to do damage. That was my point. I mean no amount of kung fu training means that a jackhammer to the shins won't break bones. There are limitations to the human body.
Think about it this way. Who do you think would win in a fight in real life. An elephant or a kung-fu master. As powerful as the kung-fu master is, an elephant can just trample him. No deflecting of blows will help. Spider Man is stronger than an elephant. The only thing that will help is dodging. But Spider Man is too quick.
I understand what you are saying. It makes a lot of sense. I just think that the power differential is too great here.
The gadgets argument makes sense too. And that is why I said Batman doesn't have a 0% chance. Sure Green Goblin could get Spider Man occasionally with a gadget. But usually Spider Man wins, and I think it is the same with Batman.
Hmm. I dunno about fighting animals.
I thought that's why we invented the bow and arrow! 😄
But the principles of parrying apply no matter the force.
I've had a good sparring match with someone who was using Tai Chi. TAI CHI! lol. And there was nothing I could do to beat them, because even though they were using gentle movements with little force and I was giving it my all, all my force was going in the wrong direction.
All it took was small, very slight changes in my direction, made by a simple brushing of my arm and a step to the left or right by the opponent.
Good points ZephroCarnelian. The bow and arrow point is an argument in favor of gadgets.
I think that Spider Man can fight very naturally and achieve the martial arts effects you mention because he has the instincts of a spider and superhuman reflexes and strength.
Do you guys think there is a limit to the amount of pure strength, speed, and agility that a peak (but not superpowered) human can take on? That is basically my argument here regarding hand to hand combat. Personally, I think that there is a limit. I believe that Spider Man is beyond that limit for Batman.
Gadgets are another matter. There is a threshold of technology beyond which Spider Man's abilities won't help him anymore. I think on average Batman's gadgets don't pass this threshold.
So it's obvious what's going on here. You think that Spider Man's power level is not great enough to take Batman, and you also think Batman's gadget level is too great for Spider Man. Fair enough. Maybe it is possible to find examples of both cases. Probably depends on the writer. But based on what I have read I strongly believe in what I wrote above, and part of my opinion is based on the nature of the characters (one superpowered, one not).
It isn't that I don't understand basic ideas of martial arts, or the meaning of the word agility, or that technology can be powerful. I just think that a human has limits and a superhuman has higher limits in the areas that makes him or her super. This belief gives Spider man the advantage in my opinion.
I don't want to take away from Batman or disrespect your opinion. I just believe in mine based on what I have read in comics.
Spiderman does have the advantage - you're right Seaapple.
Batman still has a chance though.
I don't think he could defeat Spidey hand to hand - just hold his own enough to utilise some other ploy - like his famous gadgets.
Just like a James Bond - he'd put up a good fight against an athletic German dude who's stronger and faster than him, then just as the bad guy's about to break his neck *fsssst!* out comes the nerve gas from Bond's watch and our hero straightens his tie and utters a witty repartee.
I could very much see this happening in a Spidey/Bats fight.
"Do you guys think there is a limit to the amount of pure strength, speed, and agility that a peak (but not superpowered) human can take on?"
well based on comic books? somewhat......but it is VERY VERY far past the spiderman sumerhuman advantage...for instance... iron fist KOed hulk by using his own momentum against him claiming it was "all a matter of leaverage"
in the real world sure there are always limits...but in comic books which is where these debate iminate from those limits are stretched and oushed beyond realism.....hence comic....
Yes, so like I said we have a different opinion of where those limits would lie in a crossover Spider Man Batman book.
I acknowledged Zephro's point above, that gadgets make Batman's victory a possibility.
So now it is a matter of percentages. Who has the advantage most of the time? What makes most sense in comic book land? I don't think Batman is the superpower type of character and that is why I like him -- he is good as a gritty guy who isn't superpowerful but still wins versus appropriate enemies. I have my opinion about this, but I guess these thousands of posts mean that others have some strongly held differing opinions. Anyway that's what makes comics good. Wouldn't be good if the underdog didn't win sometimes. And the underdog wouldn't be an underdog if powers and chances were equal. And this is where there is possibility there is room for argument...
Not much more to say on this one...