Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
Overweight people such as myself do indeed have to worry about persecution. Everyday. While it's not as extreme, it exists.
Overweight people are very attractive to me. My hubby has a nice round belly that I love to lay my head on. Persecution of anyone due to race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or physique, is despicable. But by implication from your previous post, are you telling me that overweight people don't have special interest groups? That they haven't organized protests against prejudicial treatment? That you haven't seen people wear T-shirts proclaiming "Flat is beautiful" with the "L" crossed out? Your rebuttal might be that those things aren't offensive. How do you know what others find offensive? Or intrusive? Or inconvenient? They just aren't rude enough to tell you to your face, as easily as you seem to do to us, because they respect your right to express yourself in anyway you choose. If you want to be rude, fine. But you're the one talking about wedges and all.
There is a sub-culture of gay men called bears, and another called chubs, who are proud of and celebrate being big, as a challenge to all who think that Gays should be thin or gym-toned. They're my kind of people!
If you personally don't want to be pro-actively involved in fighting for your own right to be acknowledged as an equal, that is your right. But recognize that your personal values don't have to be adopted by anyone else, and for every one of you who believes that minorities should "know their place" and remain silent, there are ten who would disagree.
Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
"We", being the majority, that call them "black people". They themselves, referring to themselves as the minority. Does having less people of your particular race entitle you to some exclusive benefits? They think so, which is why they lend to the social "backward progression".
First, Black people don't "call" themselves the minority. They ARE a minority. A minority is defined as a number that is less than half the whole. The status of being a minority is numerical, not adopted. Second, I'm not African American, but I don't think that African Americans would appreciate being singled out as the only minority group. Third, in any group there are members who think that their group should receive exclusive benefits (and this includes white anglo-saxons), minority or not. Fourth, I never claimed to want exclusive rights, just equal rights. Gays' right to parade, which is what you responded to in particular, is not an exclusive right of Gays. Minority groups who've had their rights denied have to voice out against the injustice, otherwise nothing will ever be done to protect those rights. The parades are one way of doing this. You might not approve, and that's your right. But freedom of expression is a basic constitutional right.
Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
The double standard I'm referring to in the case of African Americans is socially rooted. There are no all white colleges, all white magazines like JET, Ebony, Black Enterprise. There aren't any clothing lines that specifically tailor to white people like FUBU (For Us By Us) does for African Americans. Like I said, they can piss and moan about equality, although they are the ones shooting themselves in the foot.
Any minority group has specific issues. I don't see how publishing a magazine specifically to address these issues is "segregationist." Segregationism happens when a majority tells a minority that they can't enjoy the same benefits as the majority. When a minority chooses to explore his own heritage without the interference of the majority that's called CULTURE.
Each race has different body shapes and sizes. As you said, they "cater" to African Americans, but that doesn't mean that you, as non-African American can't go out and buy clothes with the FUBU brand from any one of their retail outlets throughout the world. FUBU isn't FBBB (For Blacks by Blacks). You can argue whatever you want about who the "Us" stands for, but that's not going to stop you from walking into a FUBU and buying that cool rapper cap and putting on backwards, forwards, sideways or upside-down.
The fact that African Americans do this in your face is great. I completely applaud their success. It's a reclamation of pride. It doesn't detract from your rights or happiness or honor, unless you yourself take issue with it, which you obviously do.
I'm not saying that minority groups don't hold some resentment for being marginalized. And YES, minority groups ARE marginalized by the mainstream. Can you blame us for being resentful?
Why does a minority group expressing pride in their own heritage and difference threaten you?
Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
The double standard for homosexuals, not the majority apparently, is along the same lines. It touches on your "differentiation" definition. I understand your "differentiation", but when someone comes around preaching about equality and gay rights, I'll be sure to point over to a gay pride parade, a gay bar, or any other instance of, like I said, self segregation, that shows them why nobodies getting anywhere. There are ways of making a distinction other than huddling up and closing yourself off. It's like some kind of submissive, passive-agressive sub-culture.
You are confused, sir. On the one hand you claim that our parades are too forward. On the other you claim that we huddle up and close ourselves off. Which is it? A sub-culture we are. But the perception that we are "submissive, passive-aggressive" is entirely your own.
Don't guise your contempt in false conciliation. There is nothing of acceptance in your words.
You have every right to go to any of the places you've mentioned. In fact, many straight people do -- straight people who are secure enough in their own identities that they don't feel they have to oppress others to assert their own. You just don't choose to go to these places because you don't feel comfortable around gays. Your complaint is tantamount to saying that I should suppress my uniqueness so that you can feel comfortable where ever you go. But you would NEVER consider suppressing your disapproval of me so that I can feel comfortable going wherever I want. Yours is the double-standard.
Honestly, I'm not comfortable going to straight bars with my hubby because we get dirty looks. Are you telling me that I can't even go to a gay bar?
I'm gay and I go to gay bars and clubs, because I'm accepted there, not because I want to shun the rest of society. And gays have every right to view you with suspicion because of the history of persecution by people who claim to espouse equality. You won't get thrown out of any gay bar or club unless you make your anti-gay views known.
Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
Nobodies challenging your right to self-expression, it's just that the way people go about it, and the perception that comes with it, tends to drive the wedge between us even furthur. As naive as it may sound, I think the flamboyance is a put on, and only hurts the gay community more than it helps.
What's the difference between challenging my right to self-expression, and challenging the WAY I choose to express myself? Are you saying that I can only choose to express myself in the way that you choose for me? Don't you see how ludicrous that is? That's like saying you have every right to express your desire to wear red, but only if you do so by wearing blue because I don't like red.
Have you ever considered that the wedge has two sides? Your unwillingness to accept that some people want and need to celebrate with pride is as much a cause for creating that wedge as our unwillingness to suppress our identities to make the world feel safe to you.
Of COURSE flamboyance is an affectation. It wouldn't be CALLED flamboyance otherwise! That's the point! It's a challenge to your preconceptions. It makes you question. Do all men have to wear pants? Do all women have to wear skirts? Do all families have to have a father, a mother, and 2.5 children? And most significantly: can you accept alternative preferences, life-styles, orientations whilst being confident and secure enough in your own to be unthreatened by it? Challenge is the mechanism whereby we all grow.
Look, the gay day parades aren't all that intrusive. And even if you find them so, it's only for one day a year. The people in the parade are not going to come to your home, or any place other than that designated for the parade, and force you to watch them. If you're uncomfortable or not ready to be challenged, then just DON'T WATCH.