Homosexuality: Chosen or Genetic?

Started by Wanderer259324 pages

Originally posted by whobdamandog
The laws that the government enforces..allow the Dalai Lama to practice the religion known as Buddhism. They give him this authority. He does not adminster/declare/nor determine what is/isn't a religion. Nor does he give himself the right to"religious freedom." Simple as that.

Unless there is some other authority higher than that of the government..you all tell me? To what higher authority than Government does the Dalai Lama receive his "authority"?

You're twisting things. The above statement you took from Adam Poe meant that the government is not an expert on Buddhism like the Dalai Lama is, not that they have no power over him. You're either misunderstanding what is written or purposefully twisting it.

The government may have authority over Buddhist practicioners, including their spiritual leaders, ie the Dalai Lama, but that does not mean the government is an authority on Buddhism. There's a crucial difference you're completely overlooking/ignoring.

Originally posted by Wanderer259
You're twisting things. The above statement you took from Adam Poe meant that the government is not an expert on Buddhism like the Dalai Lama is not that they have no power over him. You're either misunderstanding what is written or purposefully twisting it.

You are making a poor assumption, just as Adam Poe is. Whether or not the Dalai Lama practices Buddhism is not relevant to a Government's or English lexicographer's ability in defining what classifies as a "religion."

Case in point: What makes the Dalai Lama an expert on what a "religion" is defined by?

Answer: Nothing

Is the Dalai Lama a skilled English language lexicographer for a Dictionary?

Answer: Of course not.

Does he determine what "belief systems" are classified as "religions" under the law?

Answer: Nope.

Without even bring the "Authority" argument into play..one could argue that the Dalai Lama's doesn't even have the knowledge/or ability to determine what qualifies as a religion.


The government may have authority over Buddhist practicioners, including their spiritual leaders, ie the Dalai Lama, but that does not mean the government is an authority on Buddhism. There's a crucial difference you're completely overlooking/ignoring.

I'm not overlooking anything. You can't be an authority on something unless someone allows you to have it. A person can't become a Doctor without first getting a license to become one. An individual can't become a Lawyer unless they pass the state bar. They can't call themselves Doctors or Lawyers just because they've studied in the field..the Government requires them to do these things in order to "practice" these professions.

Case in Point:

An individual has no more authority to declare what his belief system is..then those who allow him to practice it.

Anyway..in order for your argument to stand..you have to provide evidence for me which supports the following arguments.

a) The Dalai Lama is a skilled English language lexicographer.

b) The Dalai Lama receives his "authority" from some source..higher than the government which rules over him.

Without providing evidence supporting these 2 things..then the Dalai Lama's opinion..carries no more "authority" than the average slub standing on the street corner..who debates in comic book/movie forums.

Fin.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Excuse 1:

Excuse 2:

Excuse 3:

Excuse 4:

Truly my friend..you are supporting a noble belief system.

Fin

One is a fact, not an excuse, requested by you to understand the situation. 2,3 & 4 are neither excuse or explaination. Noble is a relative ideal. And we are nothing like friends.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
When used correctly..and not for the sake of dodging obvious answers to simple questions. This type of behavior, has been demonstrated by you throughout this debate and many others.

By all means, point out where I have applied logic incorrectly, or evaded a question in this debate or others.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
No one has insulted you Adam.

Originally posted by whobdamandog

...you are a lost cause my friend.

Originally posted by whobdamandog

I truly commend your tenacity..but I believe you are letting it delude you from using the God given "common sense" we are inherently instilled with. Then again, far be it from me to make assumptions about the gifts that God has given to you..it could be that "common sense" is something that he never instilled you with...

Originally posted by whobdamandog

And I doubt you will bud...because you're just trying to mislead and confuse the masses..which is what "people" like you do best. You never put anything credible on the table..you just throw out a few random numbers/studies to support your "personal/moral agenda", and then pray to your "Gods" in hopes that no one will catch you in a lie. Truly pathetic my friend. If this is the best that you can come up with..then I definately will have pity for you..when you've revealed the worst.

Originally posted by whobdamandog

You sound like a fanatical religious nut Adam. Only someone who indoctrinated with in some sort of cult like "religion"..would believe that a little man in a funny robe and hat, is the Supreme authority when it comes to defining things...

Originally posted by whobdamandog

Much like yourself, your "God" is a liar.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Your position boils down to this:

Buddhism is not a Relgion..because the Dalai Lama says so

That is foolish and child like argument. <--this is the Truth.

IF the Dalai Lama was not qualified to give an expert opinion as to what Buddhism is or is not, the argument would be not be sound.

This is an example of a "foolish and child-like argument":

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Thus the only true "authority" that both the Dalai Lama and the Pope have..is that given to them by those whom allow them to practice their beliefs.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
And just like a Supreme court judge, the Dalai Lama/Pope have no more "Authority" than what is given to them by their Governments.

And just like a Supreme court judge, they must abide by the written laws and regulations given to them by the Government. In this case these regulations represent how a religion is defined.

"The highest court is the Supreme Court of the United States which consists of nine justices. The court deals with federal and constitutional matters, and can declare legislation made at any level of the government as unconstitutional, nullifying the law and creating precedent for future law and decisions."

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Much like yourself, your "God" is a liar. Particularly since his own web site contradicts what he has stated.

Tibet.com is maintained and operated by the Office of Tibet in London, and serves as a liaison office and source of information on matters relating to Tibetans inside and outside of Tibet. The site may have made reference to Buddhism as a religion, perhaps because lay people often refer to it as such, but the Dalai Lama clearly states this is not the case.

Moreover, Buddhists do not worship the Dalai Lama or Buddha as a god. In fact, Buddhism holds no belief about the existence of a Supreme Being.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Adam this entire argument on BUDDHISM commits Straw Man fallacy..seeing as how the topic of this thread is HOMOSEXUALITY..give it up bud...

However there is one reasonable comparison we can make between the two arguments..you've failed just as much in proving your position on this topic, as you have in the original topic of the thread.

This is not the correct use of the Straw Man fallacy. For my argument to have committed the Straw Man fallacy, I would have to assert, "You are incorrect that Buddhism is a religion, therefore homosexuality is genetic."

Someone is having difficulty proving his arguments, and it is not me.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
You are making a poor assumption, just as Adam Poe is. Whether or not the Dalai Lama practices Buddhism is not relevant to a Government's or English lexicographer's ability in defining what classifies as a "religion."

Case in point: What makes the Dalai Lama an expert on what a "religion" is defined by?

Answer: Nothing

Is the Dalai Lama a skilled English language lexicographer for a Dictionary?

Answer: Of course not.

Does he determine what "belief systems" are classified as "religions" under the law?

Answer: Nope.

Without even bring the "Authority" argument into play..one could argue that the Dalai Lama's doesn't even have the knowledge/or ability to determine what qualifies as a religion.

Merriam-Webster Online

...To decide which words to include in the dictionary and to determine what they mean, Merriam-Webster editors study the language as it's used.

...Change and variation are as natural in language as they are in other areas of human life and Merriam-Webster reference works must reflect that fact. By relying on citational evidence, we hope to keep our publications grounded in the details of current usage so they can calmly and dispassionately offer information about modern English.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
I'm not overlooking anything. You can't be an authority on something unless someone allows you to have it. A person can't become a Doctor without first getting a license to become one. An individual can't become a Lawyer unless they pass the state bar. They can't call themselves Doctors or Lawyers just because they've studied in the field..the Government requires them to do these things in order to "practice" these professions.

Case in Point:

An individual has no more authority to declare what his belief system is..then those who allow him to practice it.

Anyway..in order for your argument to stand..you have to provide evidence for me which supports the following arguments.

a) The Dalai Lama is a skilled English language lexicographer.

b) The Dalai Lama receives his "authority" from some source..higher than the government which rules over him.

Without providing evidence supporting these 2 things..then the Dalai Lama's opinion..carries no more "authority" than the average slub standing on the street corner..who debates in comic book/movie forums.

Originally posted by Wanderer259
The government may have authority over Buddhist practicioners, including their spiritual leaders, ie the Dalai Lama, but that does not mean the government is an authority on Buddhism.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
You have yet to answer Wanderer259's question. Allow me to rephrase the question and pose it to you again, "Does the People's Republic of China have the authority to declare Buddhism a science, because it has control over Tibet, yes or no?" Again, you cannot have it both ways; either a government is not authority on what is and is not a religion, or a government can declare anything to be a religion, or any religion to be a cult, fantasy, and so forth.

The Pope IS the ultimate authority on the Catholic religion. I spent 13 years in Catholic school, trust me. And the argument about these two religious leaders gaining ANY measure of authority in regards to their religion from the states in which they live, is ridiculous! The Vatican is an independant state, with the Pope as the head of that state.

Just for clarification, here are allegedly direct quotes from the Dalai Lama regarding Buddhism:

"My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness."
"This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness."

Anyway, on with it.

I'm not arguing so much whether or not Tibetan Buddhism is or is not a religion. What I provided above apparently claims it is anyway. It's statements like the following that bother me.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
I'm not overlooking anything. You can't be an authority on something unless someone allows you to have it. A person can't become a Doctor without first getting a license to become one. An individual can't become a Lawyer unless they pass the state bar. They can't call themselves Doctors or Lawyers just because they've studied in the field..the Government requires them to do these things in order to "practice" these professions.

This manner of logic only applies if you presume that religious figures or other organizational leaders are regulated by the government. Lawyers work in the federal court system. Doctors work in the national medical system. Both of these are regulated by the government, whereas religion is not. The Dalai Lama has supreme authority over Tibetan Buddhism in the eyes of the Tibetan Buddhism 'organization' and no law can logically supercede that - it would require force, as China has done.

You also missed my point, apparently. The fact that the government says a doctor must be certified in order to practice, by other doctors I might add, does not mean that the government itself is an authority on medicine. If it was, the government would be teaching medicine, not doctors.

Because the government allows Buddhism to be practiced does not mean it is an authority on Buddhism. Because a lexicographer says Buddhism is a religion, science, or whatever does not mean he/she is an authority on Buddhism.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Case in Point:

An individual has no more authority to declare what his belief system is..then those who allow him to practice it.

Anyway..in order for your argument to stand..you have to provide evidence for me which supports the following arguments.

a) The Dalai Lama is a skilled English language lexicographer.

b) The Dalai Lama receives his "authority" from some source..higher than the government which rules over him.

Without providing evidence supporting these 2 things..then the Dalai Lama's opinion..carries no more "authority" than the average slub standing on the street corner..who debates in comic book/movie forums.

Food for thought: it is entirely possible, and likely, that the definition of the word 'religion' is defined in part by Buddhism itself. So what then has supreme authority on what is or is not a religion? The word that is used to describe what is, or what already is that defines the word? I doubt very much that a group of lexicographers got together one day and decided that Buddhism was a religion. The Dalai Lama claimed Tibetan Buddhism was a religion and lexicographers likely took his claim into account when defining the word 'religion'. Afterall, he is the supreme authority on Tibetan Buddhism. I'd say this actually gives the Dalai Lama more authority on what is or is not a religion than a lexicographer.

You're right that Buddhism is a religion, as far as I can see, but your reasoning is entirely wrong.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
If you are sexually attracted to something..you are attracted not just to the person..but to an actual sexual ACT.

This is true, but...

To be sexually attracted to an activity involving the anus/rectum regardless if one is homo/heterosexual..is UNNATURAL. Pure and simple. Why is this so? Because as I've stated many upon many times..the NATURAL FUNCTIONS of the anus, rectum etc..are for the purpose of sh*tting, not reproduction. Why can't you understand this?

If I recall correctly, you've been told countless times that many homosexuals are not attracted to anal sex. Your retort was that in order for anyone to be attracted to anything, they must be attracted to a sexual act involving it. As men don't have vaginas, this obviously means they're attracted to anal sex by your reasoning.

Your reasoning is flawed. Is it not possible that men, in general, are just sexually attracted to bodily penetration based on their physiology (ie, possession of a penis)? In a heterosexual male, this is displayed in oral, vaginal, and anal sex. In homosexual males, it may be displayed in oral or anal sex.

Why does a homosexual male have to be sexually attracted to anal sex by definition? The answer? He doesn't and you are wrong.

Food for thought: most if not all of us masturbate, but we are not sexually attracted to our hands (which also serve no purpose in procreation) - we just find it one more way of getting off and fulfilling sexual urges. Is masturbation unnatural?

In addition to this..being attracted to someone of the same sex..is also UNNATURAL. Why? Because same sex unions do not produce offspring. This is a simple truth. Thus Homosexuality/Lesbianity are UNNATURAL behaviors. Simple as that.

No, it's simply not conducive towards reproduction. This assumes that sex is solely meant for reproduction, which is a matter of opinion, not fact.

People often forget that anal sex doesn't equate to "gay" sex. It's just the only way gay guys can do it.

I'm sure if men had vaginas then gay men would put that to use also.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
People often forget that anal sex doesn't equate to "gay" sex. It's just the only way gay guys can do it.

I'm sure if men had vaginas then gay men would put that to use also.

-AC

🙄

Good contribution, Whirly.

...and now sports!

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
People often forget that anal sex doesn't equate to "gay" sex. It's just the only way gay guys can do it.

I'm sure if men had vaginas then gay men would put that to use also.

-AC


Now, I am not an expert on homosexual sex types...but I think there is surely more than this way a homosexual couple an be intimate with each other. If you define sex as penetration and leave out oral sex I guess you are right, but I don't know if all homosexuals participate in anal sex.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Now, I am not an expert on homosexual sex types...but I think there is surely more than this way a homosexual couple an be intimate with each other. If you define sex as penetration and leave out oral sex I guess you are right, but I don't know if all homosexuals participate in anal sex.

of course they don't and like you I am not an expert but I assume mutual masterbation is possible.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
of course they don't and like you I am not an expert but I assume mutual masterbation is possible.

Sounds like a possibility to me.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sounds like a possibility to me.

shhush not so loud Bardock 😉

LOL, you people make me laugh.

There are many differnt ways two gay men or two lesbians can be intimate without penetrative sexual acts.

Being a "top", I am best suited to date a "bottom". However, I have dated another top, and the sex was just as good.

And if gay men had vaginas, then I'm sure there would be three bathrooms at the club.

I'm not GAY...

Originally posted by Bardock42
I'm not GAY...

DOH!

Originally posted by Bardock42
I'm not GAY...

Of course you're not 😐

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
DOH!

I am sorry.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Of course you're not 😐

Why? Are you a homophobe? 🤨

Originally posted by Bardock42
I am sorry.

Why? Are you a homophobe? 🤨

No! I believe each to their own but you said you weren't with some force so I joked along the lines of "methinks thou dost protest to much" to annoy you and........ it did 🙂

relax Bards I know you're straight - not that you not being not straight would be a problem for me at all.