Homosexuality is also abnormal. Just as Down Syndrome is abnormal, so is homosexuality. Just as being born without an arm is abnormal, so is homosexuality. Just as being born with 17/20 vision is abnormal, so is homosexuality. Homosexuality deviates from the norm and is thus abnormal.
Oh boy.
Well for PoE, I didnt ever mean to say that only straight people have made contributions to society. I would be a fool to say otherwise.
I'm saying that said gay people wouldn't have gained knowledge/education to make said advancements/discoveries without society continually upgrading/advancing itself.... and you can only get to the next stage of advancement (i.e.... from the dark ages to the Victorian era) by heterosexual men and woman copulating, and making the next generation.
(That post was meant as a mild gibe, to say that people wouldn't even be at the "enlightened", "tolerant" stage that they are today, where you can argue against basic human biology/anatomy with me, due to "free expression" and "love".) 😉
For Markk, your absolutely correct, gay folks CAN have kids, through adoption, or IVF.
Doesn't make it natural.
Moreover, that just reinforces that a person would live a homosexual lifestyle by CHOICES .
This is nonsense.
No one is arguing against gay people. Or against gay sex, or gay marriage.(I personaly support the civil unions option so that they can have the same tax benefits as heterosexuals.)
What ya'll are arguing with me is that homosexuality is genetic and natural.
Don't Sidestep the issue by bringing up wether or not I can jack off, or if an older couple can have sex.
My point is not that all straight people are baby-machines, and anybody who doesn't use sexual activity for pro-creation is abnormal.
My point, (and you know it) is that being heterosexual is the human species natural state of being.
Nothing your enlightened, tolerant mind can conjure will change this simple genetic fact.
Go ahead, ask any proffesor, or even a high school teacher,.....
"Is it the natural state of human beings to copulate with each other and reproduce?"
If, as someone posted earlier, the human population of this planet is 6 billion, and each culture across the board has a 10% gay population, then they are a small minority of people, and not representitive of the human species as a whole.
(I'm not bashing anyone, either, so don't fly off the handle) I'm just stating a mathematical fact.
Most people are not gay.
The ones who are, were not genetically, naturally made to be that way.
Some varialble happened in their early development as children.
(i.e. a serial killer, with no conscience, isn't "born" that way, something happened in their psychological makeup during early childhood development to deviate them from normal thought patterns/behavior.)
Unless ya'll are sticking with it NOT being the human beings natural state to procreate through heterosexual relations. 🙄
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Oh boy.Well for PoE, I didnt ever mean to say that only straight people have made contributions to society. I would be a fool to say otherwise.
I'm saying that said gay people wouldn't have gained knowledge/education to make said advancements/discoveries without society continually upgrading/advancing itself.... and you can only get to the next stage of advancement (i.e.... from the dark ages to the Victorian era) by heterosexual men and woman copulating, and making the next generation.
(That post was meant as a mild gibe, to say that people wouldn't even be at the "enlightened", "tolerant" stage that they are today, where you can argue against basic human biology/anatomy with me, due to "free expression" and "love".) 😉
For Markk, your absolutely correct, gay folks CAN have kids, through adoption, or IVF.
Doesn't make it natural.
Moreover, that just reinforces that a person would live a homosexual lifestyle by [B]CHOICES
.This is nonsense.
No one is arguing against gay people. Or against gay sex, or gay marriage.(I personaly support the civil unions option so that they can have the same tax benefits as heterosexuals.)
What ya'll are arguing with me is that homosexuality is genetic and natural.
Don't Sidestep the issue by bringing up wether or not I can jack off, or if an older couple can have sex.
My point is not that all straight people are baby-machines, and anybody who doesn't use sexual activity for pro-creation is abnormal.
My point, (and you know it) is that being heterosexual is the human species natural state of being.
Nothing your enlightened, tolerant mind can conjure will change this simple genetic fact.
Go ahead, ask any proffesor, or even a high school teacher,.....
"Is it the natural state of human beings to copulate with each other and reproduce?"
If, as someone posted earlier, the human population of this planet is 6 billion, and each culture across the board has a 10% gay population, then they are a small minority of people, and not representitive of the human species as a whole.
(I'm not bashing anyone, either, so don't fly off the handle) I'm just stating a mathematical fact.
Most people are not gay.
The ones who are, were not genetically, naturally made to be that way.
Some varialble happened in their early development as children.
(i.e. a serial killer, with no conscience, isn't "born" that way, something happened in their psychological makeup during early childhood development to deviate them from normal thought patterns/behavior.)
Unless ya'll are sticking with it NOT being the human beings natural state to procreate through heterosexual relations. 🙄 [/B]
You know, it always confuses me when a bible thumper talks about nature and what it constitutes. I say this because on one hand, they rail agains the theories of natural process creating and diversifying life. And then, they turn around and profess that god is nature, but made us seperate from it. If the all knowing Christian god created everything, well, then everything is natural. Therefore, everything in the world would be natural. Even the things that god didn't 'like', gays, premarital sex, working on sunday, etc
I mean, how does it work? If god created everything, and everything is an extension of his knowledge, power and existence, then does that mean that god and the devil are the same being? Are they the same power, only different representations of that all knowing and eternal power? Like God in relation to Jesus? If god sits in judgment of us after creating the universe, then in effect it's god who is tempting us to sin by allowing the devil to have influence over our free will which he gave us to test us to see if we deserved eternal life after we die.... But, then they say that it's the devil that allows souls to be tempted into sin and that's becaus ethe devil himself is a fallen angel, who has free will as well? So, god created a universe and sets the rules in direct oposition to human nature, which he gave us?
So, see, it's all an extension of god. Everything is natural? Or, nothing is natural except good christian women and their spouse-beating, bible thumping husbands?
If god created us to have dominion over the earth, then why are subject to so many negative aspects of nature? Bird Flu...that's natural, or is that a demon sent by the devil to tempt us? ****ing bible thumpers, legislating their taste in the name of a god they fear because they, themselves, aren't sure he exists.
Oh, and every question in this post is rhetorical. I spent a lot of years in catholic school, so I don't really need any of you to answer them. I'm just hoping you'll see my point. That is if you can think outside that bible shaped box in which you live.
Originally posted by sithsaber408Unless ya'll are sticking with it [B]NOT
being the human beings natural state to procreate through heterosexual relations. 🙄 [/B]
Ya'll?...how typical.
No one is going to say that heterosexual relationship are unnatural. They are saying that homosexuality isn't unnatural.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Ya'll?...how typical.No one is going to say that heterosexual relationship are unnatural. They are saying that homosexuality isn't unnatural.
What's typical. I'm no hick.
I was born and raised in the California Bay Area, and grew up with black/hispanic friends.
In your above post railing against Bible-thumpers and the nature of God, you did nothing to prove that homosexuality is either choice or genetic.
Try to stay on topic.
Please post something of substance the next time that you excercise that fine mind of yours. 😄
Oh, and by the way,.....
you know that I am a Christian, but don't let it taint your debating.
Not once in this thread have I mentioned God, or his Will.
(other than a personal note about a person I met who was set free from homosexuality through the power of Christ)
I am using science, biology, and anatomy in my points.
Our human biology is set up for heterosexual pro-creation.
A man produces sperm, which is for ensiminating a woman's ovaries.
A woman has her period when her ovaries are unfertilized by a man.
I dont care how people express themselves sexually, or what sex means to you.
Or if your "Godly" about your sex life.
I'm making the simple point that humans are designed to be heterosexual, it is natural, and I cite scientific reasons for that point.
Please leave any personal feelings against Christians at the door when you come to debate.
(You run the risk of sounding like a hard-headed bigot. That's supposed to be my role, right?) 😉
Homosexuality is natural in the sense that it:
[list][*]is present in or faithfully represents nature or life.
[*]is a phenomenon expressive of natural conditions.
[*]conforms to the usual and ordinary course of the material world and its phenomena.[/list]
Illustrating that homosexuality is natural is the fact that it extensively occurs in nature; homosexuality has been documented in over 190 species and can be observed in nearly all sexually reproducing organisms, the only exception being bacteria.
Studies of human sexuality indicate that sexual orientation is fixed and unchangeable, and current research suggests that sexual orientation is in place before birth and is caused by genetic and biological factors:
In 1991, Simon LeVey, neuroanatomist for the Salk Institute, found that the INAH3 structure of the hypothalamus in homosexual men is twice as small as those of heterosexual men, more closely resembling those of heterosexual women.
Seven years later, findings published in the March edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences by researchers at the University of Texas - Austin report that the cochlea structure in homosexual women more closely resembles that of heterosexual men.
In both studies, the difference in the structures of homosexuals is attributed to hormone exposure in the womb, evidence that sexual orientation has a biological substrate.
A fingerprint study by J.A.Y. Hall and D. Kumura at the University of Western Ontario at London ON Canada found that a significant percentage of homosexuals have excess ridges on their left hand digits compared to their right hand digits, a characteristic that was not shared by heterosexuals.
This study shows a genetic link to sexual orientation that is determined before birth as fingerprints are fully developed in a fetus before the 17th week and do not change thereafter.
A study by Psychologist Michael Bailey of Northwestern University and Psychiatrist Richard Pillard of Boston University found that if one sibling is homosexual the likelihood of an identical twin also being homosexual is 52%, the likelihood of a fraternal twin being homosexual is 22%, and the likelihood of a genetic or non-genetic sibling being homosexual is 10%.
They also found that in most instances in which identical twins are separated at birth and one twin is homosexual, the other twin is also homosexual.
This study shows that sexuality has a genetic component and is not determined by life experiences.
Dean Hamer at the National Cancer Institute examined the DNA of 40 homosexuals and found that ALL shared a genetic marker in the Xq28 region of the X chromosome.
Camperio-Ciani of the University of Padua - Italy found that there is no single "gay gene" but rather several genes responsible for sexual orientation. He identified that genetic components are indeed linked to the X chromosome and that there are other components likely to be on other chromosomes as well.
Findings published in the March issue of the biomedical journal Human Genetics by Brian Mutanksi of the University of Illinois at Chicago in conjunction with Pennsylvania State University, the University of California - Los Angeles, the University of California - San Diego, the National Institutes of Health, and the National Science Foundation report, after combing the entire human genome for genetic determinants of male sexual orientation, identifying them in stretches of DNA on chromosomes 7, 8, and 10.
Furthermore, according to extensive research by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the American Psychological Association there is currently no scientific evidence that sexual orientation is learned or can be changed.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Illustrating that homosexuality is natural is the fact that it extensively occurs in nature; homosexuality has been documented in over 190 species and can be observed in nearly all sexually reproducing organisms, the only exception being bacteria.
I think thats true. A couple months back I was watching 60 Minutes and after an interview with Michael Jordan, they did a piece about gay bulls. They actually butt-fukk eachother! (It was funny that tha GOAT B-Ball player, Michael Jordan was followed by an article like that )
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Furthermore, according to extensive research by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the American Psychological Association there is currently no scientific evidence that sexual orientation is learned or can be changed.
Well unfortunately for those folks, I have already posted that I have personally met a man who was gay for over 15 years, and was wiped clean of sexual desires/tendencies towards the opposite sex in a single event... the intense prayer sesssion that he and several men entered into, where, by his own words, the power of Christ set him free.
As I already posted, that was ten years ago, he is now happily married to a great woman, and preaches to gay people.
A second case in point, ... my old manager at the gas station I used to work at.
She was married for several years to a man, and had 2 children with him. He was a police officer, very domineering and controlling, who used to beat her and cheat on her.
She left him, and has been involved with her lesbian partner for 4 years.
Sounds to me like she just got tired of jerks, and decided to try things the other way.
On a side note, she is still atracted physically to men. I have heard her make sexual comments about plenty of men that went into the gas station, with the other cashier girls. 😛
She'll say "damn, he's fine,... look at those shoulders, ass, pecs etc....'
since she is genetically predisposed to being attracted to men.
She simply prefers the gay lifestyle, and by her own admission chooses to stay that way.
Originally posted by sithsaber408You're not and even if you were it wouldn't prove any point. Gross human anatomy does not prove human sexuality is a chosen trait. An oversight on the part of most people in this thread who have say that those sinful unnatural abnormal gays choose to be so, is that the trait in question isn't just homosexuality. The trait is sexual orientation, whether that be straight, gay or bisexual. And if one is to proclaim that one is chosen then they must also accept the others as chosen. As eye colour has variants, human height varies, human, hair colour varies, blood type varies, so too does sexual orientation. AB negatives represent about 1% of the population of people of European descent. That most people are not AB negative does not mean they choose to be AB negative.
I am using science, biology, and anatomy in my points.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You're not and even if you were it wouldn't prove any point. Gross human anatomy does not prove human sexuality is a chosen trait. An oversight on the part of most people in this thread who have say that those sinful unnatural abnormal gays choose to be so, is that the trait in question isn't just homosexuality. The trait is sexual orientation, whether that be straight, gay or bisexual. And if one is to proclaim that one is chosen then they must also accept the others as chosen. As eye colour has variants, human height varies, human, hair colour varies, blood type varies, so too does sexual orientation. AB negatives represent about 1% of the population of people of European descent. That most people are not AB negative does not mean they choose to be AB negative.
So those out there who freely admit to having chosen homosexuality are.... what?
Liars?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Well unfortunately for those folks, I have already posted that I have personally met a man who was gay for over 15 years, and was wiped clean of sexual desires/tendencies towards the opposite sex in a single event... the intense prayer sesssion that he and several men entered into, where, by his own words, the power of Christ set him free.As I already posted, that was ten years ago, he is now happily married to a great woman, and preaches to gay people.
A second case in point, ... my old manager at the gas station I used to work at.
She was married for several years to a man, and had 2 children with him. He was a police officer, very domineering and controlling, who used to beat her and cheat on her.
She left him, and has been involved with her lesbian partner for 4 years.
Sounds to me like she just got tired of jerks, and decided to try things the other way.
On a side note, she is still atracted physically to men. I have heard her make sexual comments about plenty of men that went into the gas station, with the other cashier girls. 😛
She'll say "damn, he's fine,... look at those shoulders, ass, pecs etc....'
genetically predisposed to being attracted to men.
since she [B]isShe simply prefers the gay lifestyle, and by her own admission chooses to stay that way. [/B]
You realize, there is a thing called "Bisexual", right?
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
You know, it always confuses me when a bible thumper talks about nature and what it constitutes. I say this because on one hand, they rail agains the theories of natural process creating and diversifying life. And then, they turn around and profess that god is nature, but made us seperate from it. If the all knowing Christian god created everything, well, then everything is natural. Therefore, everything in the world would be natural. Even the things that god didn't 'like', gays, premarital sex, working on sunday, etcI mean, how does it work? If god created everything, and everything is an extension of his knowledge, power and existence, then does that mean that god and the devil are the same being? Are they the same power, only different representations of that all knowing and eternal power? Like God in relation to Jesus? If god sits in judgment of us after creating the universe, then in effect it's god who is tempting us to sin by allowing the devil to have influence over our free will which he gave us to test us to see if we deserved eternal life after we die.... But, then they say that it's the devil that allows souls to be tempted into sin and that's becaus ethe devil himself is a fallen angel, who has free will as well? So, god created a universe and sets the rules in direct oposition to human nature, which he gave us?
So, see, it's all an extension of god. Everything is natural? Or, nothing is natural except good christian women and their spouse-beating, bible thumping husbands?
If god created us to have dominion over the earth, then why are subject to so many negative aspects of nature? Bird Flu...that's natural, or is that a demon sent by the devil to tempt us? ****ing bible thumpers, legislating their taste in the name of a god they fear because they, themselves, aren't sure he exists.
Oh, and every question in this post is rhetorical. I spent a lot of years in catholic school, so I don't really need any of you to answer them. I'm just hoping you'll see my point. That is if you can think outside that bible shaped box in which you live.
Anyone who had enough patience to read all of this non-sensical drivel gets a quarter..
Anyone who was actually able to understand it gets 50 cents..
Anyone who can tell me how it actually relates to the topic of the thread..I'll give a dollar.
And lastly..anyone who actually agrees with what was stated above..I'll give a free session with my shrink..
😆
Originally posted by sithsaber408Try to stay on topic.
Please post something of substance the next time that you excercise that fine mind of yours. 😄
I've been on topic for the last 180 pages. Given your penchant for clinging to the bible in the religion forum, I find it hard to believe that that has no impact on your feelings on the subject of homosexuality. And if the topic is restricted to "chosen or genetic", then you too have left the topic by debating what constitutes 'natural".
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Not once in this thread have I mentioned God, or his Will.(other than a personal note about a person I met who was set free from homosexuality through the power of Christ)
I am using science, biology, and anatomy in my points.
You are using science and biology in a very haphazard manner. You, like Whob, are disecting scientific findings and paying attention only to those aspects that support your feelings on this subject. Feelings, again, that you are getting from your church. You even capitolize the word 'will', when using it in reference to god. How far off topic could I be when I accuse you supplanting scientific evidence to fit your opinion.
Whob brings up pedophilia all the time, attempting to say that it some how correlates to homosexuality. However, he has yet to present the discussion with any evidence that it has been observed in animal behavior. Homosexuality and the acts that accompany it, have been found in both human and animal.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Anyone who had enough patience to read all of this non-sensical drivel gets a quarter..Anyone who was actually able to understand it gets 50 cents..
Anyone who can tell me how it actually relates to the topic of the thread..I'll give a dollar.
And lastly..anyone who actually agrees with what was stated above..I'll give a free session with my shrink..
😆
That didn't happen to hit a nerve, did it?
Originally posted by Bardiel13
You realize, there is a thing called "Bisexual", right?
❌
There's no such thing as a Bisexual man. If a guy has any remote thoughts of being with another man, or has ever "experimented", then I'm sorry but that vato is just straight-up flat-out GAY. I believe in bisexual women. In fact, women have told me that they've been with other women, and it didn't change my opinion about them or cause me to question their sexuality at all. But the same applying to a man?????--Nah!
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Well unfortunately for those folks, I have already posted that I have personally met a man who was gay for over 15 years, and was wiped clean of sexual desires/tendencies towards the opposite sex in a single event... the intense prayer sesssion that he and several men entered into, where, by his own words, the power of Christ set him free.
The man you met was never gay in the first place, if he were, he would never have 'changed'.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
❌There's no such thing as a Bisexual [B]man
. If a guy has any remote thoughts of being with another man, or has ever "experimented", then I'm sorry but that vato is just straight-up flat-out GAY. I believe in bisexual women. In fact, women have told me that they've been with other women, and it didn't change my opinion about them or cause me to question their sexuality at all. But the same applying to a man?????--Nah! [/B]
👆