Wolverine, Colossus, Night Crawler Vs Shocker, Rhino, Venom

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully rhino would act like an idiot it part of his character, it actauly be out of character for him not to be a jobbing moron

For instance, in a comic book or forum fight set near a construction site Nightcrawler could easily find a way to win using the environment, but in a non specific location(like this particular fight) Nightcrawler's going to be hard pressed to win because his punches aren't going to do jack in the way of actual damage(though I wouldn't put it past NC to knock Rhino around a bit). In a "No CIS" fight Nightcrawler could teleport his head off or something like that, but the chances of his doing it with CIS in place are slim to none unless there's been a major change in the character I'm unaware of.

Can Colossus beat Rhino for a significant majority? Absolutely. Can take him down in a minute or two? I seriously doubt it. Rhino's taken on the Hulk enough times for me to believe that Colossus could score a KO with just a few punches.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah CIS is in play, but outright jobbing isn't. They're not going to lose badly just because of who they are despite the way they're poked fun of on KMC. Would they be beaten definitively by the individual members of the opposing team? Absolutely. Would it be with EASE.... ❌ , at least not without specific conditions that allow for an easy victory. Think about it, they may lose to guys like Spidey consistently, but they're almost always portrayed as a threat to him also.

Now this fight is different than most fights you'll see in a comic because the people involved begin the fight .5 kilometer's away from each other and in plane view of the other team. That fact is often overlooked on the forum but it can be a major factor when one side has range and the other doesn't. Nightcrawler can cross that distance in no time flat and Wolverine can cross it pretty quick, but Colossus can't move anywhere near as fast as they can. Nightcrawler can teleport him, sure. But that's not a tactic the X-Men typically employ under these conditions, it's something they'd do with large distances involved.

Now you say that Nightcrawler jumps on Shocker right? Well if he does that he leaves his next fastest teammate in at least a few seconds behind and puts him right in the middle of the enemy camp which happens to contan a character on par with him speedwise(Venom) so what if instead of charging forward blindly, Venom jumps on Nightcrawler while NC is busy trying to punch his way through Shocker's vibro-field? Nightcrawler's busy so Venom should have no problem getting his hands on him, and once that happens Nightcrawler's pretty much history.

Team fights aren't nearly as cut and dry as individual matchup's because of little factors like that. I have no problem giving team one the win, but cherry picking match ups and saying it would be "easy" without ever examine the characters individual abilities or conditions of the fight itself in no way qualifies as impartial debating.

If Nightcrawler has a flash of insight that causes him to grab both of his teammates simultaneously and teleport on top of the other team then sure, I could see Team one taking it pretty easily. But "in character" and with CIS in play it seems far more likely that either he'll close the gap on foot with his team, or he'll provide the "lead off" attack with his team seconds behind him. And in either of those scenereo's, Team 2 could definately give them a fight.

i had assumed NC would have his swords...which he would make short work of Shocker.

But if he didn't, NC wouldn't just be wasting time punching Shocker...thats idiotic tactic against someone whose suit absorbs impact. No, more likely, NC teleports Shocker to a decent height and KOs him by dropping him.

And it doesnt have to be Colossus vs Rhino. They could have Logan face off against Rhino...and my guess is Rhino would rather face Colossus. Logan would cut of Rhino's horn and prob leave him traumatized.

Meanwhile Colossus would be beating on Venom, while Venom is helpless...his tendrils are useless against Colossus.

So whatever matchups you want, team 1 way outclasses team 2.

darthgoober, I hereby officially challenge you to a battlezone where I shall represent the X-Men and you represent Venom and the Jobbernauts.

Loser is banned from KMC for 1 year.

Let me know if you're up to the challenge!

Team 1 -they are used to working together-I can see Colossus and Logan doing a fastball special that could take out anyone from team 2, so the odds quiclkly become 3 on 2

Originally posted by darthgoober
I know he'd act like an idiot, but idiot doesn't automatically equal an easy win for the opposition. There's no denying that if the opportunity to outsmart him presents itself that his opponent will be able to do it successfully, but in a thread with no stipulations an opportunity like that isn't guaranteed.

For instance, in a comic book or forum fight set near a construction site Nightcrawler could easily find a way to win using the environment, but in a non specific location(like this particular fight) Nightcrawler's going to be hard pressed to win because his punches aren't going to do jack in the way of actual damage(though I wouldn't put it past NC to knock Rhino around a bit). In a "No CIS" fight Nightcrawler could teleport his head off or something like that, but the chances of his doing it with CIS in place are slim to none unless there's been a major change in the character I'm unaware of.

Can Colossus beat Rhino for a significant majority? Absolutely. Can take him down in a minute or two? I seriously doubt it. Rhino's taken on the Hulk enough times for me to believe that Colossus could score a KO with just a few punches.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
very true however logan could defeat rhino within minuts if not seconds

Pffft! Yeah right, LIKE HELL he would. 😆

Most likely Rhino would punch Logan into orbit like he did to Nova. Only that (unlike Nova) Wolverine has no way to travel back to Earth.

Originally posted by Premutos
Pffft! Yeah right, LIKE HELL he would. 😆

Most likely Rhino would punch Logan into orbit like he did to Nova. Only that (unlike Nova) Wolverine has no way to travel back to Earth.

so im not sure why the hell ur laughing like an idiot

Originally posted by Battlehammer
..........logan beaten people far superior to rhino...........hell logan has stomp on rhino before..............

Like when? I've never seen that one happen.

[i]
so im not sure why the hell ur laughing like an idiot [/B]

Sorry, Logan's overhypeness has that effect on me. I find it funny when people doesn't realize that the only reason why guys like Wolvie, Batman, Punisher, etc can take on far superior opponents is because of their massive Jobber Auras, and that they wouldn't last 5 minutes in any non-rigged fight.

Originally posted by Premutos
Like when? I've never seen that one happen.

Sorry, Logan's overhypeness has that effect on me. I find it funny when people doesn't realize that the only reason why guys like Wolvie, Batman, Punisher, etc can take on far superior opponents is because of their massive Jobber Auras, and that they wouldn't last 5 minutes in any non-rigged fight.

Logan was designed to fight characters like rhino............he was originally a HUlk villain............so your 100% wrong. In his first apearences he KO wendigo...........who vastly superior to rhino.

oh and Logan is better then rhnio in every area that matters in a batltle between them.

Logan faster, more agile, better reflexes, vastly more skilled, more stamina,betetr damage out put and better damage soaking.

Team 1, but it's not easy.

Saying Wolverine easily takes RHino? yeah that would happen sometimes, but Rhino has owned Spiderman before. In one (quite recent) fight, he left Spiderman KO'd and humilated. Realistically, if Rhino hit's Wolverine far away he can get a handy BFR. And if he can tag Spiderman, he can tag Logan.

Nightcrawler would fail fighting Shocker really. Why? He doesn't know about Shocker's vibrofield. he also doesn't know anything about Shocker, I mean, he's hardly a high profile villain. Meaning once he ports in and hits Shocker, if Shocker say, hits the ground with a vibro-blast, well he can hurt NC enough to finish him off.

Also, the apparent team 1 friendly match up of Venom vs Collosus. It's not that good for team 1. I mean, C isn't hitting Venom anytime soon, so Venom is a perfect distraction.

Saying all this, depending on the match up's it can go anyway. For instance, Logan can finish Shocker in one hit. Logan could stab Rhino in the eyes. Venom could pulls out Logans lungs. Rhino could break Crawler in half.

Too many variables tbh.

Really, team 1 win this by a small majority. But it's not the cakewalk some people are making it out to be.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Logan was designed to fight characters like rhino............he was originally a HUlk villain............

Yeah, like Captain Boomerang was originally a Flash villain. Must be that you can beat a guy who moves FTL just by throwing boomerangs at him.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

In his first apearences he KO wendigo...........who vastly superior to rhino.

"Vastly superior to Rhino" would be argueable, but you seem to be forgetting that both him and Hulk teamed up to beat the Wendigo. You make it sound as if Logan fought the Wendigo all alone and it wasn't like that, not to mention that Hulk ended up kicking Logan's ass a coupla pages later.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

oh and Logan is better then rhnio in every area that matters in a batltle between them.

Logan faster, more agile, better reflexes, vastly more skilled, more stamina,betetr damage out put and better damage soaking.

None of which is gonna matter much if Rhino just stomps on the floor and the expansive wave sends Logan flying to the next postal code area.

Originally posted by Premutos
Yeah, like Captain Boomerang was originally a Flash villain. Must be that you can beat a guy who moves FTL just by throwing boomerangs at him.

"Vastly superior to Rhino" would be argueable, but you seem to be forgetting that both him and Hulk teamed up to beat the Wendigo. You make it sound as if Logan fought the Wendigo all alone and it wasn't like that, not to mention that Hulk ended up kicking Logan's ass a coupla pages later.

you jsut complain he not made to fight thoses guy. and I just proved he was............what the hell is your problem, now?

Not really arguable at all. wendigo has a vastly superior record. he stronger, faster, more durable, deadlier, and has a ehalign factor.

Hulk helped it is true, but Logan finshed the wendigo off. Then Logan fought the wendigo again by him self when he was an x-men and repeated the same thing. Logan has repeatedly foughten and taken on the wendigo.

..........Hulk kicked his ass? they were both KO by magic. Then Hulk cheaped shotted him. there was no kciking his ass. The hulks also way superior to Rhino.

Logan was designedf to defeat characters like Rhino and has quite the record vs them.

Logan taken out wendigo before, thing, namor, rough-house, Ba'al ect.

Originally posted by Premutos
None of which is gonna matter much if Rhino just stomps on the floor and the expansive wave sends Logan flying to the next postal code area.

team 1 wins

Originally posted by Battlehammer
you jsut complain he not made to fight thoses guy. and I just proved he was............what the hell is your problem, now?

No problem at all, just sayin' that Logan is made to fight bricks as much as Captain Boomerang is made to fight speedsters.

Or in other words, that I don't buy it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Not really arguable at all. wendigo has a vastly superior record. he stronger, faster, more durable, deadlier, and has a ehalign factor.

Which Wendigo was that, the 1st one? Then Rhino is stronger and probably has better durability as well.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Logan taken out wendigo before, thing, namor, rough-house, Ba'al ect.

Yeah man, what did I say before? Logan DOES have a Jobber Aura indeed, but it doesn't mean that any of these victories make any sense at all.

Besides, that's nothing. Batman beats up Solomon Grundy and Darkseid in h2h combat. Does this mean that Batman >>> Logan?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
which he never onces done in a comic champ.

Cause Marvel in their infinite wisdom has decided to make him a jobber. No other reason, really.

Originally posted by Premutos
No problem at all, just sayin' that Logan is made to fight bricks as much as Captain Boomerang is made to fight speedsters.

Or in other words, that I don't buy it.

Which Wendigo was that, the 1st one? Then Rhino is stronger and probably has better durability as well.

Yeah man, what did I say before? Logan DOES have a Jobber Aura indeed, but it doesn't mean that any of these victories make any sense at all.

Besides, that's nothing. Batman beats up Solomon Grundy and Darkseid in h2h combat. Does this mean that Batman >>> Logan?

Your saying it wrong for Logan to do what he been doing sinces he started. He doing what he designed to do. And you dislike it. m Who cares get over it. He been doing it sicnes day one. It not some new developement.

He took out wendigo in his first apearences, his first mini he took out Ba'al, in his first solo run he took down tiger shark.

It nothing new he been doing it sicnes his creation, so grow up. You can ignore it all you want, but it wont change the fact he doing what he created to do.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=486007&pagenumber=2

Originally posted by Premutos
Cause Marvel in their infinite wisdom has decided to make him a jobber. No other reason, really.

stop with the trolling

Originally posted by Starscream M
i had assumed NC would have his swords...which he would make short work of Shocker.

But if he didn't, NC wouldn't just be wasting time punching Shocker...thats idiotic tactic against someone whose suit absorbs impact. No, more likely, NC teleports Shocker to a decent height and KOs him by dropping him.

I had assumed that he wouldn't because he didn't normally carry them around when I last kept up with the X-Men, but that may have changed and if so I could definitely see it affecting the outcome. But assuming that he didn't I can't really see him being successful at getting a hold of Shocker. The guys suite vibrates so hard/fast it'll dislodge Spiderman's webbing and I was under the impression that Spidey himself has a tough time keeping a grip on him(but I could be wrong about that part) so IDK how Nightcrawler would.

Originally posted by Starscream M
And it doesnt have to be Colossus vs Rhino. They could have Logan face off against Rhino...and my guess is Rhino would rather face Colossus. Logan would cut of Rhino's horn and prob leave him traumatized.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Meanwhile Colossus would be beating on Venom, while Venom is helpless...his tendrils are useless against Colossus.

Originally posted by Starscream M
So whatever matchups you want, team 1 way outclasses team 2.

Originally posted by Starscream M
darthgoober, I hereby officially challenge you to a battlezone where I shall represent the X-Men and you represent Venom and the Jobbernauts.

Loser is banned from KMC for 1 year.

Let me know if you're up to the challenge!