Ep1 was just part of the story. Its the first time we got to see fancy swordsmanship, and although we ciould have done without Jar Jar, and maybe even young Ani's constant, "YIPPIE!!!"'s...it was still essential. The reason we saw so much of Jar Jar, was so we could get a feel for why he's so damn stupid, and how there would never be an Empire, if it weren't for him. If he wasnt around, then Padme couldnt have appointed him as a Represenitive, and he couldnt initiate the vote to give Palps absolute power......SO THANKS ALOT JAR JAR....*******!!!
Yes, but is that STAR WARS!!??? Is Jar Jar Binks "Star Wars?" I tried to like this film when I went in. I kept telling myself, this is Star Wars, this is Star Wars, but in the pit of my gut, in the back of mind, a little voice continually said, "NO!! Something is very wrong here!"
I could've done without Jar Jar Binks instigating the "military creation" act. It could've been handled much more deftly. The whole prequels could've done without Jar Jar Binks! If Lucas HAD to have Binks in it, at least make him cool like Chewbacca!!! Why couldn't he do that? I'll tell you---Lucas lost his touch! These movies stink on ice and are a betrayal to what IS Star Wars.
I'm working on my definitive "fix list" on how to improve Star Wars prequels (well, to improve ROTJ, too). I'll get it posted as soon as I can. Lucas really didn't need to do a whole lot. He just needed some tempering and story editing, which is what I think his biggest problem is.
Originally posted by Flying Ferret
He just needed some tempering and story editing, which is what I think his biggest problem is.
Which is quite ironic really seeing that the original Star Wars won an oscar for Best Editing in 1977. Definitive proof the man has lost his touch, although i think it was his wife that was the editor and we all know he's lost her...
And Walter (?) Murch! Where is he!? (Now I'm wondering if I have the right name.... he was the other editor).
I'm going to bring up another aspect of character in the films, and I'll use a quote I used in another topic:
"Yes, Annie, from TPM was a good, helpful, kind, courteous, a regular boy scout, but Obi-Wan said, "good MAN" not "good little boy." And, what happened to that little boy? I don't see him anywhere in AOTC."
So, I don't think Anakin of AOTC is the "good man" or the "good friend" Obi-Wan said he was in the OOT. He's not even the same person presented in TPM.
Starting from the beginning... in the elevator scene, Anakin brags how he was the one who saved Obi-Wan.
--Not a good example of a "good friendship", and add to the irritation, this scene was a "pick up" scene because Lucas had forgotten to put a "warm moment" between two 'friends.' When they chuckle about it at the end of the conversation, it's a brief, brief, brief look at what could've been. It's just a shame it's a "pick up."
...in Padme's apartment, Anakin countermands his mentor, his teacher, his superior... his friend. Obi-Wan then has to "put him in his place."
--Again, not an example of a "friendship" to me, and a "good man" by definition should not treat his friend like this, and neither would he go against a friends/compatriot's orders, unless they thought it was morally wrong. A friend is someone who you trust, you can count on. Neither Obi-Wan or Anakin show any trust in the other. This is not a good friendship, this is not a "good man." Either one of them for that matter, and this is not the Obi-Wan Kenobi I see from the OOT who was kind and patient.
...When Anakin tells Obi-Wan about his mother and how he worries for her. Obi-Wan dismisses it.
--Again, not a "good friendship"
...When the two are guard duty, Anakin pretty much tells Obi-Wan that his powers are greater than Obi-Wan's.
--This is not a sign of a "good man" nor a "good friend." This more bragging and ego. Even Obi-Wan who doesn't think Anakin is that strong. Some faith in your friend's ability, some encouragement.
...Anakin leers at Padme, even after she told him to stop it.
---In the real world, that'd be grounds for sexual harrassment. I don't count that as a true characteristic of a "good man."
...In the same scene, Anakin complains and whines about how Obi-Wan treats him.
---Doesn't sound like he considers Obi-Wan a "good friend," and most of all, a "good man" would not speak of others in this fashion. It's immature and petulant. Hardly qualities of a "man" let alone a "good man." Again, this does not match the personality of the boy named Anakin in TPM.
...In the speeder chase, again, Anakin brags about his abilities as a Jedi, even saying he's better than Yoda. Obi-Wan impugns him and dismisses his abilities.
---Not a sign of a "good" friendship, not a characteristic of a "good man."
...Again, Obi-Wan, in his discussion between Mace and Yoda remarks on the bad qualities of Anakin.
--This is a "good friend?" Of course, Obi-Wan wouldn't have these complaints if Anakin was a "good man" in the first place!
...In the garage scene, Anakin throws objects and says, "It's not fair... it's all Obi-Wan's fault."
--Again, not qualities of a mature man, a "good man." And, definitely, not a characteristic of a "good friendship."
Anakin is not worthy of redemption in ROTJ. People can say oh, he was a good man between TPM and AOTC. And I say to that, THAT'S the story. We need to SEE Anakin as a good man, so that his fall from grace is more poignmant, more powerful, so that we pull for him, and say, "I hope he comes out of this..." I have neither sympathy nor care for what becomes of Anakin Skywalker.
People also argue that this proves Obi-Wan's line about being a failure as a teacher, about not being as good as Yoda. Then Yoda failed, too, in not instilling any good sense in Obi-Wan to be a good teacher, and how did Obi-Wan's training change Anakin's whole personality? Does...not...wash.
This is a sign of a bad script and bad characterization. Lucas shouldn't have treated these movies like "the skies the limit" with all of the CGI capability. He should've treated it like he first did when he made the original Star Wars. He should've pulled the reins, he should've tempered himself. He really needed people to bounce these ideas off.
I have to agree with ferret that the characterisation of anakin was badly handled in AOTC. We are meant to feel sympathy and have some pity for anakin at times during the story, but in order for us to have sympathy, ...he still has to start off in this movie as likeable. And there's nothing likeable about the character in this movie at all. Theres not even a trace of the character of anakin as he was in TPM. He just comes across as a nausiating and annoying git. For me, asside from the occasional moment here and there these movies just aint star wars. where are the truely likeable and engageing characters in these prequels? There aren't any! Think about it...there really arent any! That and the GL's gung-ho attitude with the CGi just made it all a mess. perhaps OBI-wan and Yoda at a push..but even they aren't as engaging and truley interesting as they were in the original trilogy.
You wanna know what the best thing in AOTC is? Christopher Lee! Yep, count Dukoo (or however u spell it) is the only truely engaging character in the whole movie. And he's the bad guy! Just a pity he's not in more of it than he is. When he was on screen was the only time that I was truely glued to what I was watching.
Again, thats argumenative. I think he is a good man, just that...MAN....he's human and suseptable to mistakes and human error. Jedi are supposed to be like robots apparently...no emotion, no individuality, nothing like that. And i truly think that if Qui Gon would have trained him, ot would have been completely different. He would have given Anakin the respect he deserves..as a person as well as a Jedi and student. You must give respect to get respect, and OB1 gives him none. Even when he gives Ani his props, he still has to throw in something to bring Anakn down. "Good job my very young apprentice." Screw that, just say good job anakin, and go about your business. Ultimatly, all movies these days, are too relient on special effects, and not story. BUT, SW still has a story to back up the SE. And in ROTS, theyre supposed to be friends, being that hes no longer his apprentice, and can view him more on an equal level. This is gonna go back and forth for days, so theres really no point. But, overall, EP1 was a good movie, but compared to the other SW movies, it wasnt up to par, mainly because we didnt know what to expect and it has to set up the OT....btw what is "OOT"? I know OT is original trilogy, but OOT...dont know.
It stands for Original Original Trilogy, i.e., non-Special Edition. I just like calling myself an OOTer.
And, yeah, we could go round and round on the definition of Obi-Wan's statement, but flaws and "being human" isn't a definition of being good. You can have flaws and "be human," and be evil, too. Adolph Hitler is flawed and "human," but that doesn't make him good. It's how you overcome it. I have not seen Anakin's attempt to overcome his flaws. In fact, he's fallen victim to them. This is not a "good man."
well yeah, as his ultimate demise....thusfar he's done a good job. Now if there were no "Police" to report to, and me and my friends tortured and killed your mother, the most important person in your life, what would you do? (im assuming that you love your mom....some people dont) If there was no way you would be in trouble for it, wouldnt you kill them too? I would..not for my mom, but my wife or son definitly. You see, OB1 is too "by the book", whereas Qui Gonn would allow Anakin to feel emotion, and encourage him to use and feel them, but also show him restraint, and how to react to how you feel. Thats why i think its OB1's fault. Now i know that as a man you have to responsible for your own actions, but he's been taught that emotions or feelings are bad and not to be used. I think he is a good man until he kills Mace. Which the whole thing with that, is someone much older and wiser to the ways of the "real" world and how to manipulate peoples feelings. Had he been taught how to deal with emotions, that probably wouldnt have happened. If Qui Gonn trained him, he may not have been around Palps as much, therefore not being as influenced by him.
Originally posted by Flying Ferret
Where is the "good man" where is the man that ANH-Obi-Wan looks so nostalgic and in deep thought over, remembering?
When i watched the original film as a kid, so many years ago, i remember getting goosebumps when Obi-Wan first tells luke of the force being an energy field that "surrounds us, penetrates us and binds the galaxy together". When i first saw TPM and i heard that midiclorian crap i immediately thought of that scene and how future generations who watch these movies in order won't get that anymore because it's been clinically explained in the new films. That saddens me more than you can imagine.
The same goes for the scene is ESB when Vader reveals he's Lukes father. Perhaps you had to be there but that was such a powerful moment; a moment thats now worth nothing. Granted you couldn't make the prequels without spoiling the surprise but then maybe that was why the OT garnered such a following; the fact that Episodes I-III didn't exist, they were legend if you like, and you could imagine your own back history. I certainly feel thats what made the OT such an endearing trilogy.
Now though, when you look at the PT, there's nothing left to imagine for yourself, it's almost sterile and devoid of anything that could possibly inspire you to fantasise about. I don't see any of the formula that made the series a success way back in '77. there's no mysticism, no witty dialogue and no likable characters. All i see are bright colours, lightsabres and the occasional recognisable reference to the OT.
what you say prozak is quite true. The fact that the back story was left to our imaginations in the original trilogy, made the whole saga so much more mystical and intriguing. Future generations who watch the entire saga from start to finish will not have that powerful surprise moment in ESB where Darth Vadar reveals that he's Lukes father. Or the moment that Luke also descovers that princess leia is his sister. From a stpry telling point of view, the six episodes don't really work together in true story telling fashion due to plot point disclosures like these which weren't designed to be revealed until the episodes where they make the most impact on the viewer. Darth Vader has also been completely de-mystified by the prequels.
its a bitter sweet thing really, in a way we all wanted to see the back story told, but it was never going to compete with how our individual imaginations had seen it to be.
"but he's a Jedi..."
Yeah, there was a guy in my town and "he's the sheriff," but that still didn't make him good (and he wasn't; he intimidated people and was a major jerk off, even though he never did anything criminal). And, I think Lucas's (not Obi-Wan's) interpretation of "good" is far, far too broad.
You know, Anakin could've been cocky. Nothing wrong with that. Han Solo was cocky, too, but he was still a good man, even when he was the one who shot Greedo first....