Originally posted by The Omega
I’m just wondering: We say “Jews/Israelis” and “Palestinians/Arabs”. But are they not the same people in reality? Aside from religion and language???
RaventheOnly
All points in history are relevent. Considering they were saying who was where first. The Jews were there first period. Ever heard of the kingdom of Solaman? Abraham ring a bell? The Muslim religion itself agrees that the old testimant and new testimant are history.... therefore the Jews are the rightful originals to the land and have been kicked out many times.
and now that we should take all points ... where should the europeans be? most of them come from barbaric tribes that invaded/entered the Roman Empire around 400 AD, that's also not even near your time period...
in other words... you can go pack and move to antarctica, but don't take off terrain from the pinguins.
Originally posted by Fire
I do'nt think Arafat would have conquered other countries to exterminate the jews. Hitler did do it, and you can't compare Araft with Stalin, they have almost no point of comparisment
What do you think this whole conflicts about? The Arabs want the Isrealis dead, all of them. There will be no peace until one of the sides is dead or they get enough sense to accept that neither will leave.
Originally posted by yerssot
no, they are not. Not every israeli is a jew and not every arab is a palestinianall points in history are relevent FOR HISTORY LESSONS. it's uber-bull to go and have every history-point checked.
Ok, under the same reasoning, every non-native american should move the heck away from the states and give it back to the indians (yeahyeah, not political correct), because they were their first period.
Or the Maoris and the Aboriginals? they should get their land back too.
What about the bushmen and pygmees in Africa? their territory shrinks too when the cities and villages expands.
And THOSE are not even 2000 years old, RO...!and now that we should take all points ... where should the europeans be? most of them come from barbaric tribes that invaded/entered the Roman Empire around 400 AD, that's also not even near your time period...
in other words... you can go pack and move to antarctica, but don't take off terrain from the pinguins.
Those who can fight and defend the land they conquered fair and square should be entitled to any land they wish. The jews lost there, but returned; the Arabic nations are just pissed that they got thier asses handed to them for the last 50 years. If you remember what my response was about you would understand that raz tried to say that i knew nothing of the conflict and i get all my info from a channel i never watch..... he threw some Roman exodous 400 AD points when this conflict goes way far back... he was trying to say that the Arabs were there first so we should give them back their land when in fact it was the otherway around.
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Those who can fight and defend the land they conquered fair and square should be entitled to any land they wish. The jews lost there, but returned; the Arabic nations are just pissed that they got thier asses handed to them for the last 50 years.
For without the help Israel would get totally owned by the Arabic Nations, remember Israel is only about the size of the state of New Jersey.
They would get swallowed whole, if not for their advanced weaponry.
Face the facts the Jews are not the victims in this war.
EDIT:
When you get some time checkout the book called The Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler, It traces the history of the Jews (?), currently in that area today.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=the+thirteenth+tribe.&spell=1
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Those who can fight and defend the land they conquered fair and square should be entitled to any land they wish.
well, considering they were armed by allied nations, is that really fair?
and by your logic, i guess we should have not went to war with iraq in 91, since saddam took over kuwait "fair and square"...and didnt hitler conquer western europe "fair and square"?
what im saying is the term "fight to defend the land they conquered" is insane. that gives any 'conquerer' the justification to move anywhere and take over, so long as they have the war machine to back it up.
on a seperate note...
i was always under the understanding that islam branched off from christianlity and judhaism, as in muslems ancestors were converted jews and christians, in other words many palastinians and isralies share the same distant ancestors. but its been a long time since western civ. class, so please correct me if i'm wrong.
EDIT>>> oops...didnt realise UROT already brought up that first point...well i second it then.
RaventheOnly. “All points in history are relevent. Considering they were saying who was where first. The Jews were there first period.”
How do you know?
“The Muslim religion itself agrees that the old testimant and new testimant are history.”
WHO says that?
The Muslim religion shares the OT the Jews and Christians. How much I don’t know. But certainly NOT the NT.
” therefore the Jews are the rightful originals to the land and have been kicked out many times.”
So, the American Indians have a right to kick out the descendants of the European settlers in North-America?
Will you start celebrating when Ariel Sharon – The Butcher of Lebanon – dies?
Do you know how many UN-resolutions Israel has against it?
Yerssot> What I mean is… Take the Jews in Israel and Palestianians in the occupied territories. HOW do the differ (aside from religion?).
thanks TO... I wouldn't have found that between the lines...
unfortunatly, I'm not Sherlock Holmes... even if I tried to do a miserable attempt to follow your trail of footsteps while wearing a deerskin hunting cap and sucking in smoke from a Sir Conan O'Doyle signature series crack pipe 😉
so... what's the answer 😱
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
What do you think this whole conflicts about? The Arabs want the Isrealis dead, all of them. There will be no peace until one of the sides is dead or they get enough sense to accept that neither will leave.
Do you personally now any Palestinians or Arabs. Cause I know both, they have lost enough family members to carry enough hatred. However they do not want to see all Israelis or all Jews dead.
So there might be a lot of Arabs who want all the Israelis dead but not all of them.
Btw how many Arabs or Palestinians do you know?
Originally posted by Fire
Do you personally now any Palestinians or Arabs. Cause I know both, they have lost enough family members to carry enough hatred. However they do not want to see all Israelis or all Jews dead.
So there might be a lot of Arabs who want all the Israelis dead but not all of them.Btw how many Arabs or Palestinians do you know?
A few. Please explain why for the last fifty years they have been waging constant war against Isreal then. 4 major conflicts and indirect terrorist and military build up on thier borders. All the Arabic nations refuse to join any coalition that includes the Isreali state. Of course not the general population wants them dead on a individual bases.... most of them can care less, but nationally their actions speak for themselves.
Originally posted by -=Urot=-
If Israel were not being backed and financed by the U.S. and Britain they would not be kicking anyone’s ass.For without the help Israel would get totally owned by the Arabic Nations, remember Israel is only about the size of the state of New Jersey.
They would get swallowed whole, if not for their advanced weaponry.
Face the facts the Jews are not the victims in this war.
EDIT:
When you get some time checkout the book called The Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler, It traces the history of the Jews (?), currently in that area today.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=the+thirteenth+tribe.&spell=1
The same can be said without the Soviet backing of the Arabic states. 🙄 In 1960's Isreal was equal in tech and had a 6th the military strength of just Egypt alone, the Six Day war, and they mopped the floor with the entire Arabic alliance.
Originally posted by finti
which by most part are Israeli produced. Israel are by far the most advanced of the armed forces in the middle east
As of now... but it was a long way to get to that point. They use the ideal of force multiplier to coop with overwhelming numbers.
Originally posted by The Omega
RaventheOnly. “All points in history are relevent. Considering they were saying who was where first. The Jews were there first period.”How do you know?
“The Muslim religion itself agrees that the old testimant and new testimant are history.”
WHO says that?
The Muslim religion shares the OT the Jews and Christians. How much I don’t know. But certainly NOT the NT.” therefore the Jews are the rightful originals to the land and have been kicked out many times.”
So, the American Indians have a right to kick out the descendants of the European settlers in North-America?
Will you start celebrating when Ariel Sharon – The Butcher of Lebanon – dies?Do you know how many UN-resolutions Israel has against it?
Yerssot> What I mean is… Take the Jews in Israel and Palestianians in the occupied territories. HOW do the differ (aside from religion?).
Yes they do. they agree that Jesus was a prophet. But the Koran was the final book accumilation that they see as a culmination.
If the Native Americans could fight them yes, but they could not due to the massive diseases that ravaged thier populations at the point of contact and Euros took advantage of that and smashed them. I have ancestry in both sides so 😛
Do you know how many times the Palistinians have been condemend by the world for atrocities? Have you ever been in a situation when your family was under constant siege?
Atrocities are horriffic. I shall shed no tear for Sharon's passing and perhaps the old hatreds will die with the elderly.
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
The same can be said without the Soviet backing of the Arabic states. 🙄
the soviets did not arm the palestinians (at least not directly, maybe they got their hands on weapons smuggled from iran, who knows)
you're mixing issues.
the whole point is that you said isreal won "fair and square" and that is simply not the case. if you took those american weapons, tanks, copters, etc from isralies and gave them to the palestinians, things would have turned out much differently.
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
I shall shed no tear for Sharon's passing and perhaps the old hatreds will die with the elderly.
we can only hope. terrible to look forwrad to such a thing, but if it would mean a beginning to an end of the violence, all the better.
Originally posted by PVS
the soviets did not arm the palestinians (at least not directly, maybe they got their hands on weapons smuggled from iran, who knows)
you're mixing issues.the whole point is that you said isreal won "fair and square" and that is simply not the case. if you took those american weapons, tanks, copters, etc from isralies and gave them to the palestinians, things would have turned out much differently.
we can only hope. terrible to look forwrad to such a thing, but if it would mean a beginning to an end of the violence, all the better.
The Soviets sold weapons on the world market to everyone who wanted them. I am not mixing issues. I am stating a fact. At that time there was no Palistinian movement, there was only destroy Isreal period.
In the six day war the isrealis were using weapons equal to the soviet hardware which they bought themselves at the time from Britan and the US. Their planes didn't even have missles at the time 😛 they used 75mm cannons. Thier tactics won the day.