Karl Marx

He did "go"......to Mexico for a vacation. 😛

he was in Norway ,but he smelled the Stalin boys comming and fled to Mexico for his permanent vacation

The one thing that realy gets to me when people try and debate about Marxism is how they cannot distinguish between Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism - all very different.

I think he had an awesome idea - he did undermine some things on the sociological part and excluded women complitely, but as a whole, his ideas were great.

The one thing that realy gets to me when people try and debate about Marxism is how they cannot distinguish between Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism - all very different.

Yeah. You sort of made it clear - i sort of supported - it all fits nicely.

*in a Ace Ventura voice* AAAALLLRIGTHY THEN

I'm a full-blown supporter of capitalism myself. I don't even feel bad about admitting it. I've heard the arguments against, I've heard the arguments for, I've heard it all. But I honestly believe that in this day and age capitalism is the only thing that can work right now, in this space of time. It'll change later, but it's too soon yet.

I support capitalism myself. But the one thing that Marx makes clear that if capitalism can't be moderate it will cause a social outbalance. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Eventually the system will clash and progress won't go anywhere.

I think the idea behind it was good. But it sadly enough failed(It was a good solution for poor country's).

Originally posted by WindDancer
I support capitalism myself. But the one thing that Marx makes clear that if capitalism can't be moderate it will cause a social outbalance. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Eventually the system will clash and progress won't go anywhere.

Exactly. Anyone that's not politically blind can see that Marx's ideas are coming true. Capitalism is making the rich richer, and it scares me. 😖

Its very true anyway - Richer are becoming richer by making the poor poorer. Its how capitalism works.

Anyway, this is one of those rare threads where its actually a philosophical debate, so moving to philosophy forum.

Proletariat revolution could be on it's way?

Hopefully. I must say I am a supporter of the doctrine, as a political ideology that aims for equality and freedom, it is a terrible shame that it was bastardised and used as it was. This is due in part to the fact that the Manifesto, while a brilliant work, was not really a step by step plan for how to implement Marxism/Communism. It was the theory, laying out how Marx believed the world was developing, and what needed to be done. The groundwork's of the politics, as it were. That contributed in part to the eventual failure, as the human element always ended up twisting Marx ideals to suit their own end.

Dont forgett Friedrich Engles in all this

Indeed, Marx's close compatriot and equal. He seems to have been largely forgotten in every aspect, despite some historians wondering if he played a greater role then Marx in the ascent of Communism. Perhaps its because his name doesn't work as well with an -ism on the end.... Engelism?

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
Proletariat revolution could be on it's way?

We've had a proletariat revolution here already (10 years ago to be exact). Enter corruption and deceipt. No-one winse. The rich still get richer, the poor poorer. And they get exploited. Nothing changes because Marxism did not take human nature into account.

Before I set myself up for major disaster here, we had a proletariat revolution as such with communism as a major stance. Since then, the now ruling party has revoked it's ideals and so we're back to square one, with even more problems and more poor people. No-one wins it was meant to say.

If only it were possible to remove human fallibility from the implementation of the system, it could work...... of course thats quite impossible. A terrible shame that a theory that promised so much could evolve in such a twisted way.

Communism, as envisioned by Marx, was a viable solution to the social and economical problems experienced by the middle class. However when the idea was implemented by Lenin, the ability of the people to have a system of checks and balances was done away with. The only part of communism that has yet to be fully thought out and realized is the right of those who subscribe to it to maintain a system of checks and balances for those they place in power.

Also, I believe that communism, while sound in theory, can not operate on a scale large enough to cater to the needs of an entire nation. Too many people='s too many problems.

Marx and Engles had a great idea. Lenin failed to realize it's potential, and Stalin came along and totally ****ed it up. Let's not forget that Lenin, before he died, made it public within the party, that he didn't want Stalin to be his successor. Lenin knew what kind of man Stalin was. But, by that point, Lenin was little more than a vegitable. So, he became the focal point of his own vision and it ended up suffocating him in the process.

Marx and Engles had a great idea. Lenin failed to realize it's potential, and Stalin came along and totally ****ed it up. Let's not forget that Lenin, before he died, made it public within the party, that he didn't want Stalin to be his successor. Lenin knew what kind of man Stalin was. But, by that point, Lenin was little more than a vegitable. So, he became the focal point of his own vision and it ended up suffocating him in the process.