Originally posted by lord xyzProbably not quite.
Hehe. Yeah, I didn't really think that through did I?
I agree, initially, with inimalist though. We don't really owe the state anything. But in a way we make a contract with the state to give some of our money in exchange for services the government can provide.
Just that nowadays people do not realize this anymore, and believe that taxes and the government making money is the end, while it is in fact just the means to ensure certain services. People think the government has a will and rights of it's own, but it doesn't, it's just our tool...which is why many laws and taxes and other things with governmental involvement go to far and interfere with the basic ideas making it more of an oppressive than a free government.
And, yeah, that's my opinion, though I can give you even more reasons why I believe that. The "everything is subjective" card, though, pretty likely, does just interfere with reasonable debate.
Originally posted by inimalist
yes, but I am confident enough in my opinions to not need them qualified as suchand no. I am not born with some debt to society or civilization. My work is my own and I should be free to do whatever I wish with the fruits of my labor.
Does that necessarily work with 100% purity in a modern society, no, but the pragmatic taxation and what have you that I would propose is in stark contrast to the idea that I, as an individual, owe you or anyone else anything simply because we were born within the same geographical area that constitutes a nation.
1. I agree that your opinions are well informed and logical...but your opinions are not universal. Some people actually like communism. 😕
2. After reading both of your next paragraphs....am I correct in assuming that you like the concept of Pure Communism?
Originally posted by dadudemon
1. I agree that your opinions are well informed and logical...but your opinions are not universal. Some people actually like communism. 😕2. After reading both of your next paragraphs....am I correct in assuming that you like the concept of Pure Communism?
no...
In communism man owes all of his product to the state and to others.
I HATE communism.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Pure Communism is stateless. 😐
I can't speak much to 'pure communism', but when I use the term it is to indicate some centeralized power which has control over the economic production of the individual or society.
Seeing as all communism, "pure" or not, requires some sort of wage and resourse redistribution, the idea that there is no centralized power is absurd. Anarcho-communists or Marxists will talk about brotherhood and an almost Rousseau-esque "contract" ideology, where people just behave toward eachother the way they should. To me, that is a state, regardless of whether or not there is an identifiable ruler. Subjigation to the masses is no better, imho, than subjigation to an individual.
but ya.... Pure communism? might as well describe for me what 'pure' christianity is.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Probably why he said "and to others".Randians don't generally like communism, for...pretty obvious reasons.
full disclosure: I don't think the real Randians would agree with me being in their "group".
As far as libertarians go, I'm fairly socialist.
Originally posted by Bardock42
You are crazy and retarded. You shouldn't decide who is allowed to decide.
Something I learned while working with the mentally handicapped:
If you are a Canadian citizen, are 75 years old, have schizophrenia, believe it is 1964, are generally comatose and don't even have the cognitive capacity to get dressed in the morning, you are still eligible to vote!!!! Isn't democracy and equality wonderful.
Quite literally, to the Canadian government at least, the opinion of every individual Canadian is worth as much as that of an old mentally disabled pseudo-vegetable. LOL, vote or die bitches!
Originally posted by inimalist
I can't speak much to 'pure communism', but when I use the term it is to indicate some centeralized power which has control over the economic production of the individual or society.Seeing as all communism, "pure" or not, requires some sort of wage and resourse redistribution, the idea that there is no centralized power is absurd. Anarcho-communists or Marxists will talk about brotherhood and an almost Rousseau-esque "contract" ideology, where people just behave toward eachother the way they should. To me, that is a state, regardless of whether or not there is an identifiable ruler. Subjigation to the masses is no better, imho, than subjigation to an individual.
but ya.... Pure communism? might as well describe for me what 'pure' christianity is.
It should also be noted that Pure Communism wouldn't work with humans...at least right now. Humans are too selfish for something like that to work.
Originally posted by dadudemon
It should also be noted that Pure Communism wouldn't work with humans...at least right now. Humans are too selfish for something like that to work.
You make it sound like a bad thing. I'm not anti-communism because I'm greedy, I find the entire idea to be immoral. Even if humans were "able to" create a "pure communism", I would be against it on principle. What a terrible world that would be.
Yeah everyone working together an equal part of one body sucks.
Chiefly cause no bastard'd stick to it in practice and therefore it sounds pretty much like the idealism of everyone prospering through pure capitalism....Inherantly flawed like any other knobbish extremist idealism, by the virute of the fact that human beings are involved and their own personal agendas/ambotions/greeds/jealousies will always be the mark of how succesful they are.
So f*** them humans!!!!!!! Right in the ear..........!!!!!!!!!!! 😉
Ooooooooh! Inherantly!!!!! Ive been waiting to squeeze that in all week. (Even if I was gonna risk spelling it wrong...!)
Originally posted by inimalist
You make it sound like a bad thing. I'm not anti-communism because I'm greedy, I find the entire idea to be immoral. Even if humans were "able to" create a "pure communism", I would be against it on principle. What a terrible world that would be.
Originally posted by inimalist
But again, I would stress that its inefficiency is not my argument against it.Communism, like fascism, supposes that the individual is the subject to some justified power that can take his will or their material products.
There is no tangible government in pure communism...it is actually a really good idea...but it would never work with a human. We are not like ants. Pure Communism IS the most synergistic and efficient way to live, as a human. Pure Communism is for a higher species...but not humans. We are simply not capable of seeing beyond our own two feet most of the time.
I myself have a pure communistic marriage...my wife and I are always working for each other and our children...day in and day out, without thought of return.
What is wrong with pure communism? Seriously, I always thought it was something for the future when humans mature more.