Originally posted by WindDancer
Hello, Line! I'm glad you took the time to read and reply. 🙂The reason I quote you on that post is because you'd touch on a subject that kinda drew my attention. You mention the male fantasy doesn't have to be carry out by the male it can come from a woman, but it doesn't guarantee that the male fantasy is held back and is mixed with a female one. To that I say yes and no. Becuase as I mention before I feel that both males and females are equally violent. Now, of course there are exeptions to the my view. Certain people use violence when necessary and that is where things get split.
Yes, let me explain. The term amazonean women is use here to illustrated women that were involved in wars in ancient times. Whether they existed or not they must have been as brutish and bulkie as the males. After all were are talking about people that would engage in barbaric confrotations that didn't held any respect for either gender. For them whether the warrior was male of female it didn't matter. What matter was the opponent carried a sword to kill.
The connection I'm trying to make is that Kill Bill is what a true fairy tale should be. Is violent, aggresive, and has certain dialogues which gives more indepth into the characters. That's what Fantasy is about. Fairy Tales should be raw and not cute and furry like Disney transform them. Women aren't Princess or helpless Damsels. They are agresive and far more violent than males when place in a predicament.
I tend to think that females are far more violent than males. Why? Because women despite the fact that they are smaller than males, a women can take more pain than a male. In no way I want to be sexist, but in my view women can be as violent as man and even more agressive than a man. I base my judgement on certain things I've observe in bootleg videos of fight clubs. The males in those videos are not as vicious in a fight as the females fighting each other. I know is kinda shallow, but when women fight each other they could be extremely vicious.
seems like we've found a common interest 🙂
I don't think that violence is what characterizes a male fantasy alone. violence can be depicted very realistically and in a way that a male would not find attractive. e.g. the violence of, let's say, dolores clairborne. to create a male fantasy you'll need more than just violence, you'd need sex too. it's when the combination 'beautiful woman/bad-ass violence' occurs that a male fantasy is born. what I'm trying to get at is that yes, women can be very violent, but that doesn't guarantee a male fantasy or that men'll find it attractive. it can be too horrible/ugly/realistic and thus not appeal to the sex drive at all.
amazons may have existed, and if they have, I'm sure they were brutish and bulky as you call them. the amazons living in our stories and myths aren't, though. there exists greek paintings of these. one of the most famous ones is painted on an amphora of some sort, and shows a battle scene between amazons and male warriors. the amazons in this picture have bared their breasts and lie helplessly in front of the males, who crush their phallic weapons. the stories also have it, that amazons cut off their breasts and that their queen slept with alexander the great. all stories and pictures focusing on the femininity and sexuality of the amazons. the amazons are therefore too, IMO, very male fantasies, involving semi-naked women, sex and violence. not bulky bodies and brutish behavior.
but ... this really wasn't your point, was it? I got carried away. you used the term amazon to differ a certain kind of heroine from another, didn't you? or did I misunderstand that part of your post?
the original fairy tales weren't cute and furry. on the contrary, they were quite violent. take some of the brothers Grimm tales, they're basically all about blood and violence. even women are in these tales often quite strong, cunning and even violent. disney's versions of these tales are altered quite a lot.
I'm not sure I agree on your definition of a fantasy. I don't think it needs good dialogue and deep characters. a fantasy, IMO, is concerned with our id, our subconsciousness and drives, which is why I find the old fairy tales to be quite capable of carrying the label 'fantasies'. kill bill is a fantasy in it's appealing to the male, sexual drives. it's a modern story in it's description of the rest of the characters' psyche, that is the other parts of the ego, not exclusively the id.
I'm afraid you'll have to explain to me what a bootleg video is 😮 ... as well as fight clubs ...
I've never heard that women were capable of taking more pain than men. I'd say it's very individual how much pain a person can take, but I might be very wrong on this since it's not a sucject I've come across before.
still, I don't see why the fact that a woman can take more pain than a man would make her more violent. even though you can stand the pain doesn't make it something nice you'd like to go out and get some more of. also, wanting to avoid pain should be an even better persuasion to avoid getting hurt and thus increase the fighter's fighting back.
how do you judge this viciousness? I think that we tend to label female violence as more vicious because it simply strikes us as more unnatural. what the bride does wouldn't be particularly vicious was it done by a man. he'd just copy what thousands of men have done in the films before him. but as soon as it's a woman who swings the sword it becomes much more malicious, simply because we connect women with kindness and tenderness. when she fights, it strikes us as unnatural, and what isn't natural is mostly considered cruel.