Civilian Deaths In Iraq - Bombs? No.

If this belongs in another thread, please merge.

US soldiers would kill civilians, says Marine
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
09 December 2004

A former US Marine has claimed that he saw American troops in Iraq routinely kill unarmed civilians, including women and children. He said he had also witnessed troops killing injured Iraqi insurgents.

Jimmy Massey, 33, a staff sergeant who served in Iraq before being honourably discharged after 12 years' service, said he had seen troops shooting civilians at road blocks and in the street. A code of silence, similar to that found in organised crime gangs, prevented troops from speaking about it.

"We were shooting up people as they got out of their cars trying to put their hands up," said Mr Massey. "I don't know if the Iraqis thought we were celebrating their new democracy. I do know that we killed innocent civilians." Mr Massey said US troops in Iraq were trained to believe that all Iraqis were potential terrorists. As a result, he had watched his colleagues open fire indiscriminately. In one 48-hour period, he estimated his unit killed more than 30 civilians in the Rashid district of southern Baghdad.

"I was never clear on who the enemy was," he explained. "If you have no enemy or you do not know who the enemy is, what are you doing there?" His claims were made during an immigration hearing in Toronto, Canada, to assess a claim for refugee status made by a former US soldier, Jeremy Hinzman. Mr Hinzman, 26, fled to Canada after refusing to go to Iraq with his colleagues in the 82nd Airborne Division based at Fort Bragg.

Mr Hinzman is seeking permission to remain in Canada with his wife and child and believes he will face a court martial if he returns to the US. "We were told that we would be going to Iraq to jack up some terrorists," he told the hearing.

"We were told it was a new kind of war, that these were evil people and they had to be dealt with." Mr Hinzman is among several American soldiers seeking refugee status in Canada, hoping the country's opposition to the war will help.

Some 30,000 to 50,000 Americans fled to Canada during the Vietnam War and settled there.

Oh please. I could say "I have a million dollars" would you belive it? Do you honestly think the soldiers just sit there and shoot people as they get out of thier cars? Come on give me a break.

I totally respect the soldiers for what they are doing, and fully support them. But if some soldiers are killing civlians, that's crossing the line. It's not like every soldier is doing this.

It's like Columbine--violence in schools has been declining, but one incident causes a massive uproar.

Originally posted by MC Mike
I totally respect the soldiers for what they are doing, and fully support them. But if some soldiers are killing civlians, that's crossing the line. It's not like every soldier is doing this.

Well I guess every army in the history of the world has crossed the line. Since innocent civilians have been killed on purpose in every war.

If is true I admire the soldier for coming forward and telling the world, as it isn't something that should be hushed up. Granted it might be an isolated incident, but if true its an isolated incident that is costing a lot of innocent lives....

Happens in every war, there are always bad apples in every military force, not surprising at all. Hopefully the soldiers who commited the acts are brought to justice accordingly.

Exactly. The thing is to learn from it and see that justice is done.

I think because some times those people would start shooting at them.That is the only reason I could think of why they would do that.They are in the army and they must know somethig that we don't know.JM

They are in the army and they must know somethig that we don't know

We wouldn't be killing ANY civilians if we hadn't illegally invaded their country in the first place.

cornponious

Well, people are going to die in war. Soldiers, civilians, etc. But, ask yourself this question: If it was Iraqi soldiers killing civilians in the streets of America, would the Iraqi people care?

I'm not justifying the killings, the war, or our reasons for being there. I'm simply addressing the fact that civilians die in war. The fact that the American people are debating this issue and getting outraged in the first place is indicative of the freedoms we enjoy that most Iraqis don't. We went there to remove a dictator, and have become one in the process. I never really saw it playing out any other way myself. We were lied to to get us there, we were lied to once we were there, and we will have to stay there due to our own ignorance. It's funny. When you look back at American history, you see that we have learned more from our enemies than we have our friends.

All that aside, let's not forget that our "American" sensability is much different than that of the Iraqis. This is a war to them, more so than it is to us.

This thread is giving me flashbacks.....

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=314653&highlight=us+soldier+thugs

cat

Well, a lot of people go into the army thinking how cool it would be to shoot people. Most of the time when they accually get there they are scared out of their wits, but some people are accually serious and go and shoot whoever they want.

Originally posted by Cosmic_Beings
Well, a lot of people go into the army thinking how cool it would be to shoot people. Most of the time when they accually get there they are scared out of their wits, but some people are accually serious and go and shoot whoever they want.

I'm hoping you disagree with this. 😖

Originally posted by Pretty Cat
cat

Would you mind explaining? Are you for/against? Or are you a cat? 😖

Originally posted by WindDancer
This thread is giving me flashbacks.....

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=314653&highlight=us+soldier+thugs

Funny I was just thinking the same thing. Its nice to be proved right in the end.

Originally posted by cornponious
We wouldn't be killing ANY civilians if we hadn't illegally invaded their country in the first place.

cornponious

thx for clearing ur post up by putting ur name at the end of it, because i seriously had absolutely no clue who had posted this until i read ur name... they really should make screen names on this forum that show up and can be seen...

oh wait...

but neway, its probably an isolated incident that people will blow out of proportion in an attempt to dig another hole in the war effort, however it is well known that the US military applies very rough justice because theyre pretty much just thugs in uniform

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Well, people are going to die in war. Soldiers, civilians, etc. But, ask yourself this question: If it was Iraqi soldiers killing civilians in the streets of America, would the Iraqi people care?

Yes, but did Iraq invade America? no. Did Iraq harm America in some unforgivable way? no. Iraqis want the U.S. troops out because they are invading their country, pushing them around, stealing their oil resources and placing officials or representatives in some sort of political power within Iraq. Whatever the Iraqis are doing to protect their country should not be called into question, especially by Americans supporting this second "Vietnam". I would do anything to keep myself and my country safe if the time came for it, and there would be no rules as such at what I'd be prepared to do if it was invaded for unjust reasons. Anyone supporting this war has no chance in even comprehending what the Iraqis are going through so don't even try and explain any excuses the soldiers are using for gunning down unarmed, innocent people.