Who cares? Unless your a rug head, but even then, like i said, who cares? I can understand why American soldiers would say something like, they would kill Iraqi citizens. If you cant, then i cant understand that. Iraqi soldiers would kill American citizens, and they wouldnt even get war crimes charged on them. In time of war, i would wager that many soldiers on both sides of the fence would have a hatred built up against the people they are fighting, soldiers or citizens. It is just the luggage of war. You also have to take into consideration what the American troops go through with dealing with the Iraqi citizens.
"Iraqi soldiers would kill American citizens, and they wouldn't even get war crimes charged on them."
Not sure if that could be used as an actual defence, because really, Iraqi soldiers aren't in the position to be killing U.S citizens, and it is unlikely that they ever would be, however, there is no excuse for soldiers, under any conditions, to fire on people they know to be harmless and/or innocent. We don't live in a world were we accept "shoot first, ask questions later", and personally I think that is a good thing. I can understand that the soldiers might be stressed, that they see bad things, that they know fear, but its just as likely that the innocent civilians being "liberated" are in the same boat, and certainly don't deserve to be killed just because the other side is twitchy, or has some hatred of the people they are fighting.
When I first read this post I really thought it was a joke, but as you read on it really shows you a person’s ability to imagine almost anything. If anyone in here was ever apart of the military you can see right through this BS, this person is doing nothing but trying to get people heated up and more and more supporters to follow a trend. Blame our service men for everything.
Find something better to do with your time rather then making up outright lies or believing the some one else’s lies.
How are we sure they are lies? And it is not an attack on soldiers just because some people might be upset and angry that there are some bad eggs who are killing people that shouldn't be killed. We know civilians die in wars, and we know they shouldn't. It isn't "believing lies" to take notice of a claim that at least some soldiers might be willingly and with intent cutting down unarmed people, nor is it wrong that people should be angry that some soldiers act in such an unacceptable way.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
How are we sure they are lies? And it is not an attack on soldiers to be upset and angry at some bad eggs who are killing people that shouldn't be killed. We know civilians die in wars, and we know they shouldn't. It isn't "believing lies" to take notice of a claim that at least some soldiers might be willingly and with intent, cutting down unarmed people, nor is it wrong that people should be angery that some soldiers act in such an unacceptable way.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
How are we sure they are lies? And it is not an attack on soldiers just because some people might be upset and angry that there are some bad eggs who are killing people that shouldn't be killed. We know civilians die in wars, and we know they shouldn't. It isn't "believing lies" to take notice of a claim that at least some soldiers might be willingly and with intent cutting down unarmed people, nor is it wrong that people should be angry that some soldiers act in such an unacceptable way.
If you are talking about during war where men women and children are killed because of bombs or because of being in the wrong place at the wrong time then we are talking about a whole different issue. War is war, and innocent people do die, that is just how things are. What happened on 9/11 was a act of war, and thousands of innocent people died on that day. So are you saying it was alright for those people to kill so many Americans in one day? Of course not, you couldn’t be that ignorant.
You also cannot put all of your trust into what you hear from the news or news papers, we are not there and we don’t know what is going on over there, but I can say this, that in the real world being a solder isn’t about playing games and killing everyone that walks in front of you, it is not like that over there. When you are there the only things going through your mind wants to be home with your family and friends and the last thing on your mind is wanting to wake up the next morning and go and kill a family of women and children.
If you are only saying this because you are against the war over there then so be it, but until I see proof with my own eyes I will not believe it because I have more faith in those boys over there then I do with the people over her safe in their homes making up stories because they have nothing else better to do with their time.
I am sorry, but I don’t see things the same way you do, and there isn’t anyone that can take that away from me. I am an American and very proud of it, and I am very proud of our troops over there, who are giving their own lives because they too believe in their country, even if the reasons are wrong or not.
Originally posted by rwoonacott
If you are talking about during war where men women and children are killed because of bombs or because of being in the wrong place at the wrong time then we are talking about a whole different issue. War is war, and innocent people do die, that is just how things are. What happened on 9/11 was a act of war, and thousands of innocent people died on that day. So are you saying it was alright for those people to kill so many Americans in one day? Of course not, you couldn’t be that ignorant.You also cannot put all of your trust into what you hear from the news or news papers, we are not there and we don’t know what is going on over there, but I can say this, that in the real world being a solder isn’t about playing games and killing everyone that walks in front of you, it is not like that over there. When you are there the only things going through your mind wants to be home with your family and friends and the last thing on your mind is wanting to wake up the next morning and go and kill a family of women and children.
If you are only saying this because you are against the war over there then so be it, but until I see proof with my own eyes I will not believe it because I have more faith in those boys over there then I do with the people over her safe in their homes making up stories because they have nothing else better to do with their time.
I am sorry, but I don’t see things the same way you do, and there isn’t anyone that can take that away from me. I am an American and very proud of it, and I am very proud of our troops over there, who are giving their own lives because they too believe in their country, even if the reasons are wrong or not.
Valid points. 👆
All we're saying is, as said, the "rotten apples" of the force should be rooted out and punished for these actions. We are not saying every soldier does this!!!
And one more thing, about many people dying on 9/11, the deaths should stop there. Don't you think that's enough people killed? Revenge should NEVER make us kill more people, especially those who don't deserve it.
Very good point, MC Mike sums it up well. I am not knocking all soldiers, I know war isn't a game, I don't seek to damage the memory of people who die etc. Yes, I was against the war, but that is beside the point. Claims have been made, and they should be investigated, and if found true, the guilty party deserves to be punished. Do I believe everything on the news? No. I take it all with a grain of salt. However knowing what war is like means that I won't turn a blind eye when a soldier stands up and says "we have been doing wrong." I believe it is far more dangerous, and maybe even verging on ignorance, however, to say "Our soldiers are good and I refuse to believe that they may be committing war crimes", which is the same as blindly believing the news. The accusation in question has not been proven false, it needs to be investigated, and for the good of the US, the soldiers and the Iraqi people if it is proven true the wrong doers need to be punished.
and I am very proud of our troops over there, who are giving their own lives because they too believe in their country, even if the reasons are wrong or not.so with the even if the reasons are wrong or not frase you basicly say that you would support US soldier regardless the reason they had for invading a country
Indeed. Support of soldiers is important, as they are often viewed badly, and can be misused, but don't go to far the other way. Don't proclaim loudly that they are above the law, just because they are soldiers, or that anything negative is a lie. If there is cause for an investigation then it should be looked into, and ultimately that will aid the soldiers more in the long run then blind faith in their goodness.
On December 7th 1941 the Japanese attacked American soil by attacking a military Naval base, even thought there were a minimum civilian casualties we still retaliated back at Japan by bombing their own country and also attacking their military bases. There were many civilian casualties during our bombing raids, and even more when we dropped the big bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Not only did this action put us into the war it also put us in the war on Germany. We could have just fought in the Japan war and kept our noses out of the German war but that wasn’t going to work, we had to show the rest of the world that we were not going to take such attacks on American soil. The reason why we included Germany was to protect us from a German attack on American soil and it worked in the end, even though Germany attacked American shipping vessels.
On September 11th 2001, we were attacked again by hijackers taking over commercial airlines and crashing those planes into the World Trade Centers, the pentagon which were civilian and military land marks killing thousands of American people. This attack was not apart of one country, it was set in action by one man and that was Osama Bin Laden who really isn’t apart of any one country, even though he carried out his mission in Afghanistan. Our mission then was to hunt and track down Osama Bin Laden and his army and destroy them at all cost.
It was during this time when the Untied States needed to take notice of what was going on over in the Middle East, and we needed to do something before this would ever happen again on American Soil, so what we did was to look at all of the countries over there and picked out the one country that could carry out attacks such as the one on 9/11 and which country presented the greatest threat to the United States and surrounding countries and that is when Iraq came into the picture.
The problem with Iraq wasn’t because of the Iraqi people; it was because of their leader Sodom Hussein. He was more of the dictator then just a president or the leader of a whole country, and in the past his actions spoke louder then words. This was a country that was driven by hostility more then anything. If you were to go back and read how Sodom had treated his own people you would start to see how it compared to what Hitler was doing. This is why he was a threat to the rest of the world, because of his past history.
Even though the war was started because we “Thought” they had weapons of mass destruction, really wasn’t the only reason why we went to war. Sodom had to be removed from power so that in the future we didn’t have to worry about some type of attack on another country or our own in case he did produce these weapons. In the past we all know that he did use chemical weapons on his own people so what was preventing him from using it on us or surrounding countries? So we now know that the reason for the war was to remove this man from power and set up a new government to prevent future attacks.
Iraq has been under Sodom Hussein’s power for many years, and the people of Iraq are trying to rebuild their country with the help of the UN and also the United States and Brittan, and it isn’t going to be an easy task. You also have to understand that there are going to be people in Iraq that are not going to want to change and there is going to be attempts to over throw the United States, and in the process of doing this there is going to be innocent lives at stake here, both with the Iraqi people and our troops, people are going to die and that is just apart of life and war.
We as Americans have to ask why, why must our troops be put in harms way of these attacks? The answer to that question is that Iraq isn’t ready to fully take over and rebuild their government just yet, and it would be totally foolish for us to pack up and leave where so much needs to be changed.
I do understand that some countries have their own views about the Americans and their reason why they are still there, and most countries feel that we are bullies and need to get out of there as soon as possible. I can go along with that, and I understand why you might feel that way. Yet you have to look at the whole picture, we are also there to protect other countries from harm, and we are in the middle of all the conflicts that are going on at this moment and it is a message to the rest of the world that we are not going to permit this sort of thing to continue anymore, something has to be done before it gets out of hand.
Believe me when I say, I want nothing more then for the world to pull together and put a end to this war, but in order for the war to end, we all have to come together and fight the people that want these wars. Our children are the ones that are going to pay the price, not us. We have to protect the world from people like Sodom Hussein and Osama Bin Laden and many more, and if we don’t do it who will?
Over in the Middle East these wars have been going on for hundred of years, and I know that we can’t help everyone, I really wish we could. The world isn’t nice, there are wars, and people dying everyday and we can’t save them all. If we can work together then just maybe not as many people will die and that could mean something.
As I see it right now, there is a lot of work to do and there has to be changes, and it isn’t going to happen over night. It might be 5 to 10 years before we might see peace or maybe never, but for right now I feel good that there are troops over in the Middle East just in case something does happen.
Just a Note: This is how I feel just one persons view
My Only Reason
Originally posted by fintiSeeing that you are from another country I can understand what you are trying to say. If it was your country that was involved in the war efforts wouldn’t you support your troops, in someway isn’t your country already supporting the war efforts? Just because us Americans are over there doesn’t mean we are wrong.
so with the even if the reasons are wrong or not frase you basicly say that you would support US soldier regardless the reason they had for invading a country
Re: Civilian Deaths In Iraq - Bombs? No.
Originally posted by MC Mike
If this belongs in another thread, please merge.US soldiers would [b]kill
civilians, says Marine
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
09 December 2004A former US Marine has claimed that he saw American troops in Iraq routinely kill unarmed civilians, including women and children. He said he had also witnessed troops killing injured Iraqi insurgents.
Jimmy Massey, 33, a staff sergeant who served in Iraq before being honourably discharged after 12 years' service, said he had seen troops shooting civilians at road blocks and in the street. A code of silence, similar to that found in organised crime gangs, prevented troops from speaking about it.
"We were shooting up people as they got out of their cars trying to put their hands up," said Mr Massey. "I don't know if the Iraqis thought we were celebrating their new democracy. I do know that we killed innocent civilians." Mr Massey said US troops in Iraq were trained to believe that all Iraqis were potential terrorists. As a result, he had watched his colleagues open fire indiscriminately. In one 48-hour period, he estimated his unit killed more than 30 civilians in the Rashid district of southern Baghdad.
"I was never clear on who the enemy was," he explained. "If you have no enemy or you do not know who the enemy is, what are you doing there?" His claims were made during an immigration hearing in Toronto, Canada, to assess a claim for refugee status made by a former US soldier, Jeremy Hinzman. Mr Hinzman, 26, fled to Canada after refusing to go to Iraq with his colleagues in the 82nd Airborne Division based at Fort Bragg.
Mr Hinzman is seeking permission to remain in Canada with his wife and child and believes he will face a court martial if he returns to the US. "We were told that we would be going to Iraq to jack up some terrorists," he told the hearing.
"We were told it was a new kind of war, that these were evil people and they had to be dealt with." Mr Hinzman is among several American soldiers seeking refugee status in Canada, hoping the country's opposition to the war will help.
Some 30,000 to 50,000 Americans fled to Canada during the Vietnam War and settled there. [/B]
What a load of crap
Originally posted by FeceManMy father said the same thing that you just said. The press and people will draw their on conclusions thus causing mistrust in the military. If you look back in time or if you were there you know what I am talking about.
I fear this war shall be seen like another Vietnam.
You know what REALLY disgusts me about the Vietnam war? (Actually, it's not even anything that directly deals with the war.) The fact that certain individuals look on "The Wall" and call it "The Wall of Shame". Yeah, it is really shameful for someone to give his or her life for his or her country. If you're so embarrassed of your countrymen, go live somewhere else, you ****ing ingrate.