Bump.
Mainly for WWH v. MMH giggles. There was a fair amount of off-topic debate in the WWH v. MMH debate purely on WWH's telepathic defenses. And I still saw a majority of people considering J'onn to be a far superior telepath to Xavier. It appeared that many people thought J'onn outclassed Xavier. I simply don't see that to be true. So let's revisit!
Split 5/10 between the two in a purely telepathic battle.
Meh. Still got people thinking J'onn is a far superior telepath then Xavier. Still wondering why. Not only does Professor X have less low feats, I still think Profexxor X has more high-end feats in his belt then Manhunter. Xavier's got more planetwide telepathy feats, more galaxy spanning telepathy feats and more successful battles/encounters with abstract level feats. That and he can affect machines and AI. Plus he's been upgraded to an unknown degree since his merger with the M'Kraan crystal. Guess I'll have to point people to his respect thread to help sway popular opinion. First page and a half is about Ult. Xavier, but after a page and a half or so, you'll get the good stuff:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=418908&pagenumber=2
Originally posted by Draco69
MM also channeled the thoughts of the entire world. On several different occasions. Xavier used every last ounce of psychic strength he had to do this feat. MM? He beared no strain whatsoever.MM has made contact with every single being in the DC universe and coalesced their psychic energy to serve as a shield against Solaris. EVERY single being.
He also managed to breach the Overmind of Heaven a feat that was only reproduced by the Great Evil Beast alone. He literally breached the consciousness of GOD.
He also managed to make psychic contact with the Source and fuel the psychic energy of all those who have passed and returned to the source to defeat his brother Malfic and to pacify Darkseid.
He also clearly has no strain scanning the world and reading the thoughts every being simultaneously daily with no repreccussions whatsoever. Xavier? He continually needs Cerbero to accomplish such a feat.
MM also possesses nearly ten thousand years of psychic combat experience from a race of beings who lived and breathed telepathy as it were first-nature. Xavier? He had to learn by himself. MM? He absorbed the psychic knowledge of EVERY Martian (except the current ones that are still alive...) and added THEIR power to his. His race counted in the MILLIONS. He possesses the psychic raw energy of MILLIONS of Green Martians.
He also defeated the Martian God H'rommer. H'rommer is considered by the GLC corps to be the most powerful psychic being alive. A being who can alter the Astral Plane to his will as if he were God.
Artificial intelligence if of no matter to MM. He's mentally controlled the likes of the Metal Men or psychically KOed Red Tornado.
Mass telepathy? Try mass telepathy against hundreds of White Martians who are incredibly skilled TPs themselves. He mindwiped them all.
Cosmic beings. MM has psychically battled God's Wrath....
Xavier is simply outclassed.
He's facing an opponent with FAR more experience, FAR more psychic resouivers (he has his ENTIRE races' psychic energies to call!), FAR more versality, and quite simply is better than Xavier in everyway.
It's like a pretensious unlearned martial artist who is talented but self-taught against a master who has been trained since birth by the best of the best.
Scans?
Here's a little secret for you; Martian Manhunter was a second (maybe third) tier character from inception onward. Nothing wrong w/ this, some of my favorite char. are as well, but the thing is, sometimes a company, in an attempt to breath life into a second-shelfer, will play around with them, alter them, amp their power, change their histories, turn them from good to bad (and back again)... all in order to keep them relevant. You can usually spot these cases as they happen mostly to characters who cannot hold- or never even had- their own series.
Up until fairly recently (recently in the long history of the character), MM was a fairly powerful character, but nowhere near as powerful as Superman, no where near as powerful a telepath as Xavier. But DC tinkered and amped him up, and up, and up.
And up.
And I don't buy it. If tomorrow, a comic book had Green Arrow bulseyeing a molecule from a mile away, I wouldn't buy that either. I would chalk that up to what it is; lazy (if talented) writers thinking "what can I do with this character now? Hey, I know- I'll increase his power!" My view of MM is much closer to the classic, core, character; powerful, not god-like. And not above Xavier as a telepath.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0MM is much more powerful than Chuck my friend.
Meh. Still got people thinking J'onn is a far superior telepath then Xavier. Still wondering why. Not only does Professor X have less low feats, I still think Profexxor X has more high-end feats in his belt then Manhunter. Xavier's got more planetwide telepathy feats, more galaxy spanning telepathy feats and more successful battles/encounters with abstract level feats. That and he can affect machines and AI. Plus he's been upgraded to an unknown degree since his merger with the M'Kraan crystal. Guess I'll have to point people to his respect thread to help sway popular opinion. First page and a half is about Ult. Xavier, but after a page and a half or so, you'll get the good stuff:http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=418908&pagenumber=2
Eh,Icould just be as lazy as OneDumbGo and say go to his respect thread.
But in a nutshell,Jonn wins because he is a million times more experienced,lived in a culture based around telepathy,not to mention that Xavier(even when he was Onslaught) had a ***** of a time with Alien minds...let alone an alien who's atleast an equal telepath.Jonn's stalemated Starro the conquerer before,while Aquaman was utterly stomped(not saying that Aquamans anywhere near Xavier,just showing Jonn's a cut above the Average DC telepath),Plus,Jonn was able to dominate every criminal mind on earth when he wanted to,and he was able to beat his brother in a telepathic one-on-one before,while Malefic has been able to mindrape the entire league at once.