Superman vs Carnage

-Carnage goes invsible sneaks up on supes and either sends tendrils into superman's brain to scramble it, or covers his head with symiote to give superman hilucinations, nightmares, making him crazy.

You seriously think that Superman couldn't hear Carnage?

-a big diff between these two, is that superman's not a killer, and carnage goes on killing sprees. while there isn't one tangible thing carnage cares about carnage could score like 30 hostages rapping tendrils around their necks etc....and he would have superman at his mercy.

I thought this was an fair fight...without stupid pedestrians.

-or he can send a symbiotic scream throughout the universe causing hundreds upon thousands of the symbiote species to race their way across space and overwhelm superman with sheer numbers.

Wow, they have to be pretty damn fast, because if they are lightyears away, they need to go to earth fast enought to stop Superman to murder Carnage...by the time they get to earth, Superman is already cleaning the remains of Carnage with an broom.

Well i wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't hear carnage those symbiotes are sneaky,,,,veeeeerrrry sneaky,,,,,like thebutler from mr. deeds sneaky,,,,I think you are underestimating the sneakyness sir.

there are no pedestrians? where are they fighting? in the desert or something?....okay, sorry if that's the case then scratch that idea, it's just something that carnage has to his advantage against supes, just like a lot of his other villians you know?

I think they ARE pretty damn fast, its something that while it was bewildering at the time, i've just come to accept, I have no idea how symbiotes can propell themselves through space at such high speeds, but when venom did the shreik thing they arrived out of nowhere in only a few moments. though, i really would some explination for how they travel through space so fast....like I said the true potential the symbiotic species is pretty much limitless. But i do see what you're sayin bobby, about the poster boy thing, kinda makes me wonder why they let venom kick his ass....

"let venom kick his ass".....creative writing as you said, Jinzin

Crossovers are utter bull****. Period. No way in hell could Venom beat Superman. When DC and Marvel come together to create a comic, business politics get in the way of logic. Lobo loses to Wolverine. Storm beats Wonder Woman. Spiderman topples Superboy. Impossible situations are created in order to give their respective icons their time out in the field.

Superman would crush Carnage. Even if Carnage somehow manages to get his hands on Superman, he wouldn't have ample time to actually hurt Superman. Carnage does not have the strength nor power to restrain him in anyway. Symbiotes hate two things: loud noises & fire. Superman can exploit both of these weaknesses by judicious use of heat vision and creating sonic booms. Carnage has superhuman speed. According to the Official Handbook of Spider-Man, Carnage's max speed is 800 mph. Superman is capable of just under lightspeed superspeed. Its no contest. How symbiotes travel through space is unknown (they probably hitchhike on meteorites or alien spaceships), but they are not capable of extreme speeds.

then you tell me how the hell they got from one part of the MU to the other within a few frames of a single comic?

Don't know. Dimensional portals. Celestials. Who knows. I don't know what comic you are referring to but the fact is that Carnage's max speed is 800 mph. If he was capable of faster-lightspeed action, then Spidey would have died a LONG time ago. And also think about this. If Carnage is capable of beating Superman arguably one of the most powerful superheroes in comics, the why the hell is Carnage is losing to Spidey. Better yet why doesn't Carnage beat everyone in the Marvel Universe. If Carnage can beat Superman, than Iron Man, Captain America, Wolverine, and certainly Spider-Man would be no problem.

Jinzin, all those creative ambush situations you gave would still not work. Please, answer these questions. Do you understand that Superman can move so fast that Carnage will just see flashes of red and blue? Why don't you think a full force punch from Superman will take Carnage out?

Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah venom got an asshanding (the first time around) from Juggs, but it didn't seem like juggs' blows were doing much more than tossing the v man around, I mean he was making wise-cracks while juggernaught put his face through the pavement.

In the very next issue, it was actually stated that the beating Venom received at the hands of the Juggernaut almost killed him. Yeah, Venom was making wisecracks, but he was seriously in a world of hurt.

Originally posted by jinzin then you tell me how the hell they got from one part of the MU to the other within a few frames of a single comic?

Creative writing? 😉

Anyways, Supes wouldn't even have to punch Carnage to defeat him. There are so many of Carnage's weaknesses that Superman could exploit that it's not even funny.

Originally posted by theflyxx
Yeah, that crossover was ridiculous.

Venom literally got his ass handed to him by the Juggernaut in "Venom: The Madness".

No way Venom would defeat Superman.

Anyways, back on topic, Carnage would get creamed by Superman. Superman would be just too quick for Carnage to do anything. Also, Superman could freeze him solid or incinerate him with his laser vision and then dispatch him at his leisure.

Also, did you see what the Sentry did to Carnage in New Avengers? Now just imagine what Superman would do to him.

i'm convinced that wasnt carnage. I think it was some other symbiote that nobody really knows about. I mean, it didnt even look like carnage! It was completely reddish-pink (carnage is deep red with black "goop" coarsing over the red), AND IT HAD TEETH! Carnage has ALWAYS been absent teeth! And considering that the rest of the art is great, i dont think it was just an artistic mistake. Maybe the symbiote spawned (a 2nd time???) and that was just some other random villian with a new symbiote suit and didnt know how to use it.

back on subject.... yeah, supes has heat vision.... heat + symbiote = bad....

was it toxin? the carnage's offspring?
as far as carnage's speed maybe the human host causes the symbiote to slow down, i don't know, but they are that fast.

okay I'll go back and re-read the v vs. juggs comic, but I don't remember it saying he almost died, but i could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) But still he took a lot of punches from juggs and a few from the hulk without much of a problem, carnage (by symbiotic nature) is stronger than venom, thats not even debatable so i assume that he could take much more physical punishment ie punches from supes without being KOed.

i agree that venom shouldn't be able to beat superman, but it's not like superman ever faced anything like venom before so it isn't entirely inplausible that superman just didn't know how to combat venom, and yes I also agree venom punching superman into a bus was a bit ....well whack.....but,,,,i love that comic (lol), so i don't care, Venom beat superman, it wasn't "fan voted" and it wasn't "what if" it just...happened. just cause you don't like it, doesn't mean it didn't happen, and if you think crossovers are bull then you shouldn't be arguing in this thread cause that's what this thread is about.

yes, spiderman should be dead and probably would be if he didn't have the sonic hook ups and such from the fantastic four etc...but you also have to understand that carnage is crazy,,,and marvel would lose alot of money by killing off spidey.

and finally I realize that superman is blurs when he's moving fast but so are quicksilver and the flash, and venom trapped them..well pretty easily, or so it looked.

jinzin, regardless of the crossovers result, it doesnt set a precedent when it comes to comic battles...

superman pushes planets, he flew to the centre of the sun ffs...

he killed doomsday...

carnage (while being extremely capable) just isnt on the same level as supes...

if carnage was loosing badly he could do what he did against the surfer and detach from kletus and attach to supes and merge with him (well the symbiote that is, not cassidy) then he could go on his biggest killing spree ever

Originally posted by Scoobless
if carnage was loosing badly he could do what he did against the surfer and detach from kletus and attach to supes and merge with him (well the symbiote that is, not cassidy) then he could go on his biggest killing spree ever

That may happen if Superman was trying to talk sense to Carnage. But, if Superman was intent on taking Carnage out as soon as they saw each other, Carnage would be done in a second.

The crossover was sufficient... Superman was weakened and so Venom was able to severely knock the crap out of him... But he was weakened by I think it was kryptonite... Dur.
Theres one ability the symbiote has that can kill basically anyone and thats the tendrilling ability... If Carnage were to stem off a small little stream of himself to go either into Supes ear, up his nose or through his mouth, the tendril could quickly get to his brainstem and kill him.

Question is, is Superman stronger internally also? Or is he just a rock hard shell with weak innards like every other human... But venom killed plenty a super powered villains by tendriling.

Originally posted by IRTMU-Dragon
If Carnage were to stem off a small little stream of himself to go either into Supes ear, up his nose or through his mouth, the tendril could quickly get to his brainstem and kill him.

Carnage could've done that to Sentry in New Avengers, but he didn't and Sentry tore him in half.

And we all know that Sentry is basically just a ripoff of Superman.

Imagine what Superman would do.

Carnage was really only super-powerful for his first few comics, marvel likes to do that with new characters to make everyone really excited about them and want to keep reading.

Carnage hasnt reallyt ever done a tendril, Venom has done it more... He did it to a woman once... but... that was... not to kill her...

Originally posted by jinzin
ugghhh, the symbiote is a mystery still, to the rest of the marvel universe. The full powers that a symbiote possesses are still potentialy endless. Symbiotes alone are fully capible of dispatching extremely high strength/speed/hell even god-like people a couple examples of this would be the silver surfer, and the stranger, who are cosmic beings, using a symbiote, spider-man beat firelord (don't ask me how, I still read that comic with a WTF look on my face.) bad writing or not. (oh yeah and while we're on that subject. It is nice and fine that you have your own opinion on the capibilities of comic writers and if your inclined to dissagree, then that's fine too. The point is however, who simply can't say that something which DID INFACT take place has no substance just because you don't like the writter's/company's style or say in how a story should pan out. If you're going to simply discredit events that did take place based on your opinion of the writer, then you shouldn't read comic books cause bad writing happens to good comics ALL---THE---TIME.
We all know that logically superman shouldn't be beaten by anyone---ever, short of a god, or lucifer or something. However, since you feel so inclined to include batman in this thread, then I must retort, Batman beat Carnage while carnage was weakened and confused due to what joker did to him. Batman found a weakness and exploited it. But, in that same logical fasion one could argue effectively that batman has handed supes his ass on a couple of occasions using the same exploitation technique.
logically superman shouldn't be beaten by a regular human,,,,,ever, but it happened. The thing about comics though, is that they're not logical, no one is going to get bitten by a radioactive spider to become a super hero, anyone who is caught in a gamma bomb is going to die, plain and simple, I shouldn't even have to go on about most of the ridiculous dc characters. You call venom beating the crap out of superman an absurd occurance, and for all intents and purposes I'm inclined to agree. But the fact still remains he did it. If it wasn't for these "Absurd Occurances" our comic worlds would be extremely boring. Isn't the fact that a different sun makes superman gain all sorts of random (and well all of the best) powers one could think up....absurd? I would say so,,,,,,,,,,,,but it happened.
wheather you want to admit it or not carnage DOES have a shot at beating superman.

You DO know that Superman has HEAT vision... right?

we know he has heat vision, he may not know that carnage is sensitive to fire though and he normally doesn't lead with it

superman would scarpe the red goo off the walls after killing him

I think Carnage has a shot..a small one though.