Are Spiderman Movies Better Than Both Superman N Batman Films?

Originally posted by doctorstrongbad
Why do you think he is more complex then Spiderman? Can you explain this?

Originally posted by #1Rupert_Lover
Spider-Man's way more complex than superman! Always has been, always will be. Well I think so, anyway.

on the surface it seems that way...

lets look at superman though...

lost his entire race before he ever knew them, no family, no heritage...

grew up on earth, forced to hide his abilities from everyone but his parents, so he's always bottling up his emotions...

then he goes to metropolis, becomes a reporter and has a pretty good life, but as superman, its not great at all...

he literally feels like the world is on his shoulders... because it has been before...

when spiderman goes to bed at night he can sleep...

superman can hear the screams of people being killed thousands of miles away... and he knows he could help them, but even he has limits...

how do you think he feels when he knows he can save anyyone but is unable to do so?

how does he go to bed and sleep, or spend time with his wife and family when he can hear people dying all around him...

and knowing deep down that he'll have to watch everyone he cares about die because he'll outlive them?

kill bill was the best analogy yet...

when spiderman goes home and gets out of his disguise, he's peter parker... with superman its the opposite, he's superman, clark kent is the disguise... when peter hits 50 he can retire and be peter parker, superman will always be superman...

Originally posted by pr1983
on the surface it seems that way...

lets look at superman though...

lost his entire race before he ever knew them, no family, no heritage...

grew up on earth, forced to hide his abilities from everyone but his parents, so he's always bottling up his emotions...

then he goes to metropolis, becomes a reporter and has a ppretty good life, but as superman, its not great at all...

he literally feels like the world is on his shoulders... nbecause it has been before...

when spiderman goes to bed at night he can sleep...

superman can hear the screams of people being killed thousands of miles away... and he knows he could help them, but even he has limits...

how do you think he feels when he knows he can save anyyone but is unable to do so?

how does he go to bed and sleep, or spend time with his wife and family when he can hear people dying all around him...

Spidey is still more complex. and it's not like he doesn't have a hard time falling asleep, as well. he barely gets any sleep! He's got the weight of his Uncle Ben's death on his shoulders. to top that, he has to keep seeing the image of Gwen Stacy falling to her death in his mind all the time. and he has to worry about, not just other people, but also his loved ones getting killed. almost every one of his supervillains knows his secret identity, and because of that, his loved ones are at risk. and unlike superman, Spider-Man is more human than superhero, which makes him more complex. Spider-Man keeps wanting to stop being spider-man because of the problems it gives him in his normal life, but then he remembers uncle ben and continues being spidey. he has to live with the constant reminder that he could've stopped his uncle ben from dying. then the more killings there are, the more weight he has on his shoulder. and since spider-man can't bottle up his feelings, he lets himself break down. and he has trouble keeping a good relationship with all these girls he's been dating. and because of all this. sometimes Spider-Man's feelings cause him to lose his powers. to him, even the slightest loss is a devestation. he's a superhero who regrets ever having these powers, yet, in a sense, enjoys being spider-man. he has so many problems with both his normal and superhero life. he has problems like a normal human being. that's why they call him the superhero who could be anyone.

Not almost even one knows who Spidy is.

Only a few, Green Goblin, and well thats and Venom. Thats it.

all valid points...

you are going by the movies arent you?

my opinion of complex is different to your methinks 😬

i never said spidey wasnt complex, but imo superman is more complex...

humanity is not a prerequisite of complexity....

and breaking down does not mean he is more complicated...

he blames himself for gwen stacy, he blames himself for uncle ben thats true...

but they are two people (no disrespect)...

superman could be in bed with lois and hear a tidal wave heading for some beach or tornadoes wrecking some town...

superman is capable of saving those people, but does he always? no, he can't... or he would have no life...

superman is older than peter by a fair few years, hes married, he had a hard time dating when he was younger... like any guy in high schoool...

as an aside, i think what's cool about "Supreme Power" and the creation of Hyperion is how they attempt to show what could have REALLY happend if some superpowered alien like Superman arrived on earth. How the government would've tried to cover it up, raise him to be an "AMERICAN" hero, how he finds out the truth, etc. It's depicting a more realistic take on DC icons.

If you remember from the first Superman Movie, Superman's having a conversation with the image of Jor-El at his Fortress, and Jor-El told him he can't be there for people all the time lest they depend on him too much. Goes along with him "hearing tidal waves while in bed with Lois." And think about all the wars and political strifes that he should not be involved in.

I know one of Spidey's highlights is the humanness of the character and all the anguish he goes through, but if you think about it, shouldn't half of the superheroes who have families, etc share the same type of problems? Spidey's not alone in terms of being a superhero who leads a normal human double life. I think it's just cuz Stan Lee and writers after him made it a point to focus on that...they stressed it more with Peter Parker and that's what makes readers pay attention to it more. It's obvious that "With great power comes great responsibility" is a motto all the superheroes, both DC and Marvel share.

all this debate on who's more complex made me think of a couple of scenarios (sorry I get all dramatic ):

You're Superman. At this very moment, let's say 1. a boat is sinking taking 100 passengers down at once 2. a little girl has been taken hostage, strapped to a chair with bombs that are about to go off and she's crying for help 3. Pa Kent just had a heart-attack and needs to be rushed to the hospital 4. Oh, and Darkseid decides to invade Earth

...all...happening...at...the ...same...time. 😛

You're Spider-man. At this moment, let's say 1. The Sinister 6 are wreaking havoc in Manhattan 2. a little girl has been taken hostage, strapped to a chair with bombs that are about to go off and she's crying for help (but in another country or even another city where Spidey doesn't even know about it) 3. Aunt May just had a heart attack 4. Galactus is about to invade Earth (but that's a job for FF or Avengers). 5. You got acne problems (so wut? u wear a mask) 6. MJ refuses to talk to you. (so go bone felicia) 7. You have to proctor a final exam (substitute teacher...again).

Who's got the higher responsibility now? The sad thing about Supes is he has to shut off his urges to be everywhere at the same time as a defender of not just the US, but the entire world. And he's got galactic issues to worry about since he's virtually the invulnerable leader that all the other Justice Leaguers look up to. Most Marvel Heroes do not rely on Spidey as their ultimate source of inspiration and safety. Unlike Spidey, Supes IS A LOT MORE AWARE of everything that is going on...from the sound of a gunshot taking out lives in Uganda to to the explosion of an airplane in Brazil. And finally, as much as Peter, Clark's also got a personal life too. It doesn't have to be Pa Kent. Jimmy could be falling off a ladder taking pics of a chemical plant explosion. 😉 Kinda kicks it up a notch for Supes and makes Peter's problems seem just a bit less worrisome. Clark's potentially got everything that troubles Peter and more...

The biggest issue that Spidey has going for him is the fact that he's hated on by the city that he tries to help the most. But a lot of times it's just a maturity issue...Peter whines too much about how bad his life is, like a angry teenager. Supes just sucks it in and keeps it bottled up so he can remain standing as a proud beacon of hope for humanity. That's gotta do some mental damage in the long run (a la Hyperion going beserk).

I was going to add: (before they limited my edits)

The biggest issue that Spidey has going for him is the fact that he's hated on by the city that he tries to help the most. And oftentimes his villains hit close to home (threatening MJ, capturing Aunt May, killing Gwen Stacy). But a lot of times it's just a maturity issue...Peter whines too much about how bad his life is, like a angry teenager. Supes just sucks it in and keeps it bottled up so he can remain standing as a proud beacon of hope for humanity. That's gotta do some mental damage in the long run (a la Hyperion going beserk).

Originally posted by pr1983
all valid points...

you are going by the movies arent you?

my opinion of complex is different to your methinks 😬

i never said spidey wasnt complex, but imo superman is more complex...

humanity is not a prerequisite of complexity....

and breaking down does not mean he is more complicated...

he blames himself for gwen stacy, he blames himself for uncle ben thats true...

but they are two people (no disrespect)...

superman could be in bed with lois and hear a tidal wave heading for some beach or tornadoes wrecking some town...

superman is capable of saving those people, but does he always? no, he can't... or he would have no life...

superman is older than peter by a fair few years, hes married, he had a hard time dating when he was younger... like any guy in high schoool...

First of all, I wasn't really referring to the movie as much as i was the comicbooks, because spider-man did lose his powers once in the comics, way back when they started making the comicbooks. it was Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1, and that was from him depressing over the fact that he could've saved uncle ben. and he also gave up being Spider-Man in Amazing Spider-Man #50.

Originally posted by SpyCspider
as an aside, i think what's cool about "Supreme Power" and the creation of Hyperion is how they attempt to show what could have REALLY happend if some superpowered alien like Superman arrived on earth. How the government would've tried to cover it up, raise him to be an "AMERICAN" hero, how he finds out the truth, etc. It's depicting a more realistic take on DC icons.

If you remember from the first Superman Movie, Superman's having a conversation with the image of Jor-El at his Fortress, and Jor-El told him he can't be there for people all the time lest they depend on him too much. Goes along with him "hearing tidal waves while in bed with Lois." And think about all the wars and political strifes that he should not be involved in.

I know one of Spidey's highlights is the humanness of the character and all the anguish he goes through, but if you think about it, shouldn't half of the superheroes who have families, etc share the same type of problems? Spidey's not alone in terms of being a superhero who leads a normal human double life. I think it's just cuz Stan Lee and writers after him made it a point to focus on that...they stressed it more with Peter Parker and that's what makes readers pay attention to it more. It's obvious that "With great power comes great responsibility" is a motto all the superheroes, both DC and Marvel share.

Second of all, the whole great power, great responsibility thing; it might refer to all superheroes, but the saying started with Spider-Man.

and spidey is thought of by the public as a menace, and everyone in superman thinks he's the greatest thing ever to happen to their city. Spider-Man is more misunderstood than superman because of it. now how would you feel if you were in spidey's position? yeah, superman might be more stronger and have people looking up to him, but that's because he's not misunderstood like spider man. less superior heroes can be more complex than more superior heroes. hearing 1000 deaths from miles away in which it might be too far away to reach them in time isn't as heartwrenching as seeing even one death right in front of your eyes. if Superman hears a death, and as fast as he is, he still might not be able to save the person in time, and he might be hallucinating hearing it, so it might not have really happened. As for Spider-Man, when he sees a death, he knows he could've stopped it. it was right in front of him the whole time, yet he didn't. and now Spider-Man is scarred for life because of it. Superman doesn't even know what might've happened or if it really did happen, so he pretty much decides whether it's gonna leave a scar on him or not. Haven't you ever heard of the saying 'believe only half of what you hear and all of what you see'?

Originally posted by SpyCspider
all this debate on who's more complex made me think of a couple of scenarios (sorry I get all dramatic ):

[b]You're Superman. At this very moment, let's say 1. a boat is sinking taking 100 passengers down at once 2. a little girl has been taken hostage, strapped to a chair with bombs that are about to go off and she's crying for help 3. Pa Kent just had a heart-attack and needs to be rushed to the hospital 4. Oh, and Darkseid decides to invade Earth

...all...happening...at...the ...same...time. 😛

You're Spider-man. At this moment, let's say 1. The Sinister 6 are wreaking havoc in Manhattan 2. a little girl has been taken hostage, strapped to a chair with bombs that are about to go off and she's crying for help (but in another country or even another city where Spidey doesn't even know about it) 3. Aunt May just had a heart attack 4. Galactus is about to invade Earth (but that's a job for FF or Avengers). 5. You got acne problems (so wut? u wear a mask) 6. MJ refuses to talk to you. (so go bone felicia) 7. You have to proctor a final exam (substitute teacher...again).

Who's got the higher responsibility now? The sad thing about Supes is he has to shut off his urges to be everywhere at the same time as a defender of not just the US, but the entire world. And he's got galactic issues to worry about since he's virtually the invulnerable leader that all the other Justice Leaguers look up to. Most Marvel Heroes do not rely on Spidey as their ultimate source of inspiration and safety. Unlike Spidey, Supes IS A LOT MORE AWARE of everything that is going on...from the sound of a gunshot taking out lives in Uganda to to the explosion of an airplane in Brazil. And finally, as much as Peter, Clark's also got a personal life too. It doesn't have to be Pa Kent. Jimmy could be falling off a ladder taking pics of a chemical plant explosion. 😉 Kinda kicks it up a notch for Supes and makes Peter's problems seem just a bit less worrisome. Clark's potentially got everything that troubles Peter and more...

The biggest issue that Spidey has going for him is the fact that he's hated on by the city that he tries to help the most. But a lot of times it's just a maturity issue...Peter whines too much about how bad his life is, like a angry teenager. Supes just sucks it in and keeps it bottled up so he can remain standing as a proud beacon of hope for humanity. That's gotta do some mental damage in the long run (a la Hyperion going beserk). [/B]

and it all depends on whose got the higher responsibility. it depends on what their limits are. plus you gave Spider-Man some stupid responsibilities. since when did he need to worry about acne? and let's say that the fantastic four and the Avengers were fighting somebody else in, say, another dimension like a lot of Marvel Superheroes tend to go through now and then. and what if Spider-Man was the only one who wasn't too busy and Galactus was right there. and what if that little girl wasn't in a different city being held hostage. it sounds to me like you're just trying to make it seem like Superman has more responsibility by putting in those extra little notes. so if you think about it, they both have the same amount of responsibility because of their limits. its just as hard for spider-man to save one person as it is for superman to save 100 people. and as for jimmy falling off a ladder, superman's faster than a speeding bullet, and he's only a few inches in front of him. if it were Spidey trying to save him, it would be rotten luck, 'cause he wouldn't be quick enough to save him.

I am going to argue with two of the topic starters points.
#3 comics are not for kids. they are supposed to be for adults. i forget what the numbers are but the average comic fan is an adult. that comment is just like the idots who say video games are for kids even though the average gamer is like 34 or something
#6 spider man is not the #1 movie as you said and neither was star wars which you said was unseated. spider-man is acutally number 12 in worldwide gross. it is one above star wars and only by about 10 million dollars. which is pretty good considering how much less it cost to make a new hope(8 million dollars and although i dont have numbers for spider-man it is well above 8 million) and how much cheaper tickets were in 1977 as opposed to 2002. so i would say those two comments are not very well founded. If you take into account how much more popular comic book franchises are today it makes sense that spider man would be doing better than moves 10 or 20 years older.

So you agree that Spider-Man is for more mature readers? because I agree.

Spiderman seems to be light hearter compare to say Batman.

Only a few of Spiderman's villians are scary, I dont know why, but most of the Bats villians are scary(Expect maybe, Riddler, Hatter and Penguin)

I agree. Batman's villains are scary, especially the Joker. I never liked clowns. they creeped me out as a kid. I always thought batman was always too dark. And Superman in my opinion was too light. Spider-Man for me was just right. 😂 But if you think about it, Spidey's villains might not be scary, but he does have well known villains. Batman does, too, but I'm not really a Batman fan. Superman's villains aren't very recognizable.

Wow this thread is having a great debate. I like it. keep it up guys and girls.

You know what makes supes corny and unrealistic? the fact that he doesn't have some sort of mask and people still don't know his identity. at least Spidey wears a mask. all Clark Kent does when he's not dressed as superman is put glasses on and smooth his hair back. I never understood that. how does a guy make people recognize him by doing that. Peter only needs to get into normal clothes, and when he's Spidey, he has the mask to cover his face and it also helps him muffle his voice so people can't recognize it. Superman doesn't wear anything to cover his face, and people don't recognize him! it gets on my nerves! the people who know clark must be really stupid to not figure out that he's really superman! he looks exactly the same as clark kent. he just puts glasses on! he doesn't even wear gloves, and that means it would leave Superman's fingerprints everywhere, and why the police in Metropolis never tried that, I'll never know. I just felt like bringing that up. 🙂

First of all, I wasn't really referring to the movie as much as i was the comicbooks, because spider-man did lose his powers once in the comics, way back when they started making the comicbooks. it was Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1, and that was from him depressing over the fact that he could've saved uncle ben. and he also gave up being Spider-Man in Amazing Spider-Man #50.

my apologies... i wil admit i have missed several spidey comics...

and spidey is thought of by the public as a menace, and everyone in superman thinks he's the greatest thing ever to happen to their city. Spider-Man is more misunderstood than superman because of it. now how would you feel if you were in spidey's position? yeah, superman might be more stronger and have people looking up to him, but that's because he's not misunderstood like spider man. less superior heroes can be more complex than more superior heroes. hearing 1000 deaths from miles away in which it might be too far away to reach them in time isn't as heartwrenching as seeing even one death right in front of your eyes. if Superman hears a death, and as fast as he is, he still might not be able to save the person in time, and he might be hallucinating hearing it, so it might not have really happened. As for Spider-Man, when he sees a death, he knows he could've stopped it. it was right in front of him the whole time, yet he didn't. and now Spider-Man is scarred for life because of it. Superman doesn't even know what might've happened or if it really did happen, so he pretty much decides whether it's gonna leave a scar on him or not. Haven't you ever heard of the saying 'believe only half of what you hear and all of what you see'?

out of curiosity, do you read superman comics? he takes EVERY death seriously and personally... they are as real thim as uncle bens or gwen staceys was to spidey...

Superman's villains aren't very recognizable.

President Lex Luthor? Who gave his own daughter away to be experimented on by aliens?

Originally posted by #1Rupert_Lover
You know what makes supes corny and unrealistic? the fact that he doesn't have some sort of mask and people still don't know his identity. at least Spidey wears a mask. all Clark Kent does when he's not dressed as superman is put glasses on and smooth his hair back. I never understood that. how does a guy make people recognize him by doing that. Peter only needs to get into normal clothes, and when he's Spidey, he has the mask to cover his face and it also helps him muffle his voice so people can't recognize it. Superman doesn't wear anything to cover his face, and people don't recognize him! it gets on my nerves! the people who know clark must be really stupid to not figure out that he's really superman! he looks exactly the same as clark kent. he just puts glasses on! he doesn't even wear gloves, and that means it would leave Superman's fingerprints everywhere, and why the police in Metropolis never tried that, I'll never know. I just felt like bringing that up. 🙂

yes it is silly... but so is jj never guessing that parker is the only one who spidey lets get close to him without parker knowing his identity... yeah, very realistic...

And one more thing...

Read Superman #204...

When the vanishing occured superman was up in space saving kyle rayner... he put the earth ahead of his personal feelings, and when he got back lois had been one of the people who vanished...

President Lex Luthor? Who gave his own daughter away to be experimented on by aliens?

What I meant by that was recognizable in appearance. if you don't know superman that well, and were more interested in Spider-Man or Daredevil, you might mistaken seeing some drawing of Lex Luthor for a thinner looking Wilson Fisk (Kingpin), because they are both bald. When you look at Doctor Octopus, you know it's him because he has mechanical arms coming out of his back.

out of curiosity, do you read superman comics? he takes EVERY death seriously and personally... they are as real thim as uncle bens or gwen staceys was to spidey...

Yes, I did read some of the comics, but I read more Spider-Man comics. but I personally think that hearing things isn't as serious or affective as actually seeing this stuff happen, because you're not sure whether it is happening or not, apart from seeing it right in front of you. and what i meant by 'Superman can choose whether it will scar him or not.' is that he only HEARD people screaming for help. you can never be too careful when you hear things, whether to believe them or not. it could all be in his head. which means he has the choice to decide whether it would affect him or not, even though he doesn't know it, which are my personal thoughts.

Originally posted by pr1983
yes it is silly... but so is jj never guessing that parker is the only one who spidey lets get close to him without parker knowing his identity... yeah, very realistic...

And one more thing...

Read Superman #204...

When the vanishing occured superman was up in space saving kyle rayner... he put the earth ahead of his personal feelings, and when he got back lois had been one of the people who vanished...

well, JJ is too self-centered to notice. besides the mask Spider-Man wears cleverly muffles the voice so no one would recognize it, so superman's still more unrealistic. and so what if Lois vanished? Spider-Man saw a lot more of his loved ones die. in the Marvel Knights Spider-Man comicbooks, aunt may had once vanished as well; without a trace.

Yes, I did read some of the comics, but I read more Spider-Man comics. but I personally think that hearing things isn't as serious or affective as actually seeing this stuff happen, because you're not sure whether it is happening or not, apart from seeing it right in front of you. and what i meant by 'Superman can choose whether it will scar him or not.' is that he only HEARD people screaming for help. you can never be too careful when you hear things, whether to believe them or not. it could all be in his head. which means he has the choice to decide whether it would affect him or not, even though he doesn't know it, which are my personal thoughts.

whether we'd believe them or not, superman does, if he chooses one disaster over another to stop he hears about it on the news... he believes everything because he cares too much... it is as real to him...

well, JJ is too self-centered to notice. besides the mask Spider-Man wears cleverly muffles the voice so no one would recognize it, so superman's still more unrealistic. and so what if Lois vanished? Spider-Man saw a lot more of his loved ones die. in the Marvel Knights Spider-Man comicbooks, aunt may had once vanished as well; without a trace.

ive actually been reading marvel knights spidey (smashing comic btw), but spidey couldnt have prevented aunt may from disappearing...

superman with his powers would expect to be able to, he blames himself for every little thing he misses... spidey has limits, superman has less than most, which makes it even more crushing when he fails...

THE TRUE MEANING MY FRIENDS....................................
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I MEAN THE SECOND PART..................................cus comics are based on scientific story telling! Fantasy stuff on wierd science!! It took me so long to get this!
Spiderman can beat wolverine to a pulp too!

Hahaha...I coulda guessed i'd get ripped on for the "acne" responsiblity. I was trying to exaggerate by saying that Supes and many other heroes have personal problems like those as well, BUT the writers usually don't focus on them because, hey, tha'ts just not the nature of the character to worry about "trivial" matters. That doesn't mean they don't exist. On the other hand, Spidey writers make SURE readers know when Peter's late for a class, when MJ is pmsing or when Aunt May is in debt.

The Spidey mythos focuses on trying to relate to the reader...a REAL human being by showing how a superhero such as Spidey would have to worry about fighting gods and monsters but also see his life fall apart due to issues REAL humans could relate to. The writers make it EASIER for us to feel bad for Peter. It's a lot harder to relate to some alien like Supes who's so godlike. This lack of sympathy IMO makes the character of Supes potentially more complex. Just like Martian Manhunter, or Wonder Woman, or someone most obvious like Aquaman. How do you relate to someone who talks to fish?

Good debate nonetheless. As for which movie I like better...hmm. Superman movies are classic. They're a must for every superhero movie fan (except maybe Superman 3 or 4..those were just bad/funny). Even Spidey pays homage to Supes in the first movie, running towards the screen and opening up his shirt to reveal a "spider" insignia. I think to a new generation, Spidey movies will be their generation's Superman movies....they may even think he defines the iconic hero since that's the present buzz. An overall feeling that I get when I think of Spider-man 1 and 2 is for "the teen audience." Supes was made for EVERYBODY...adults respect such an icon and kids are undoubtedly marveled by him.

No way!JM 👇 😠