Molecule Man V's Living Tribunal

Originally posted by K3VIL
One Celestial is not more powerful than Galactus, Galactus at full power, with his body not hungry for energy, is unstoppable, no physical force can defeat him.In terms of power, he's only under Eternity, Infinity, Lord Chaos, Master Order and the most powerful of all them, the Living Tribunal.

a single celestial has shown to be able to do what galactus couldnt do, with the simplest of gestures... a single celestial is above galactus in overall power. marvel has outright said this. please click below.

link : http://www.geocities.com/pic_housing/Celestial_note1.txt

Originally posted by Beyonder
And yet he couldn't snap his fingers and remove the Gauntlet from Warlock. He had to reason with Warlock. He didn't ask Warlock to stop when Warlock was attacking Eternity, he snapped his fingers and restored order. But that only proved that he can interfere with an attack, it doesn't mean LT could've snapped his fingers and Warlock would lose the Gauntlet in an instant.

if LT can snap his fingers, and hault the attacks of the infinity gauntlet, i'm pretty sure that he could hault it altogether.

Originally posted by Beyonder
I'm not arguing that LT isn't stronger than the IG, but it wasn't like his mere wish could've taken the IG out of Warlock's hand. He needed Warlock's approval to no fight back for him to take the Gauntlet.

he didnt NEED approval. he doesnt always interfere. its not how LT works. he can shut down entire universes (which all contain infinity gauntlets). i'm sure that puts him leaps and bounds above the gauntlets power. you should agree...

Originally posted by Beyonder
Now if LT wanted to take it by force, it wouldn't be just a mere thought but a struggle for the Gauntlet, one that LT would EVENTUALLY win - it'd still be a struggle no less. One that would result in the destruction of the universe ask LT himself stated to Warlock.

yes, LT could simply shut it down... which is the destruction of a universe. if it threatens the multiverse.

Originally posted by Beyonder
He could've interfered and fought Thanos for the IG, but it wouldn't be just with a thought and Thanos would lose the Gauntlet.

eternity nearly beat thanos with the gauntlet, and they were all seeking LT's help. eternity included. to stop thanos from usurping eternity from his spot in the heirarchy of mainstream reality.

Originally posted by Beyonder
And what evidence do you have of such? If he could've done such a feat, then why reason with Warlock instead of just thinking of Warlock not having the IG. What's with the statement of "a struggle that would no doubt end the universe" from LT?

whats your proof that he couldnt?? LT is almost the supreme being. the gauntlet to me is only slightly more powerful than eternity. nothing more, nothing less. it only gave the user powers of eternity, on a slightly larger scale. which is why the wearer could take the spot of eternity once he was defeated...

Originally posted by Beyonder
Warlock can do almost anything LT could do. LT just has more power behind him, but this doesn't mean LT can just do anything with a mere whim to an IG weilder.

so the infinity gauntlet can shut down entire universe (more than one)???? if a single universe gains/loses too much power and threatens the entire multiverse??? i doubt it.... the gauntlet gives the wielder power over 1 universe, not all.

Originally posted by Beyonder
LT says he SERVES a power that dwarfs Warlock's own, not that he IS a power that dwarfs Warlock's own. He's more powerful than the IG, but dwarfing would be a bit much.

to each his own i guess...

Originally posted by Beyonder
Original Beyonder meaning as he was ORIGINALLY INTENDED in SW I & II. In those, he was the supreme being; LT had nothing on him.

LT had nothing on him... lol. it doesnt matter how he was "ORIGINALLY INTENDED" because he technically never existed in that state of power. LT has more power than any celestial, i doubt you could argue that. but a single celestial has more power than the beyonder. so weather you like it or not, beyonder isnt that powerful. deal with it.

Originally posted by Beyonder
What you speak of about ILLUSIONS and such happened way after SW I & II and was the RECKON of the Beyonder character. That reckon was done cause Marvel didn't want a God-like being in it's universe.

Thus: ILLUSION = RECKON
ORIGINAL = BEFORE RECKON

its RETCON. and it means that the "original" beyonder, is what he was after the retcon... all the time. what he did in secret wars were nothing more than mere illusions. therefor he isnt allmight, or even remotely close to it.

Originally posted by KillAll
eternity nearly beat thanos with the gauntlet, and they were all seeking LT's help. eternity included. to stop thanos from usurping eternity from his spot in the heirarchy of mainstream reality.

I wouldn't say Eternity nearly beat Thanos. The Titan didn't look at all tired after that battle, he looked happy. =)

Originally posted by KillAll
[its RETCON. . what he did in secret wars were nothing more than mere illusions. therefor he isnt allmight, or even remotely close to it. [/B]

Not to get too much off topic, (and yes, I agree that the Beyonder's powers are illusion based), But what does that mean for Venom and Carnage and all the other carnage clones?

I mean Carnage came from Venom, and Venom is Spidey's black alien suit, and Spidey got that suit from one of Beyonder's costume making machines (at least he thought thats what it was) on that planet Beyonder made up. So does that mean that Venom is still a illusion?

Not being a big Spidey fan, I dont know if that got cleared up some where.

Oh, and after reading the Infinity Gauntlet again (one of my favorite reads) it clearly shows that the Tribunal can negate the power of the Gauntlet with just a thought. And Eternity is begging him to do so

ok ..... if the beyonder really was just an illusionist, that would mean the secret wars were all fake and happened in peoples heads (including galactus i assume) so if that's all true where did spider-man's black symbiote costume (venom) really come from?????????????????

guess i should have read the last post before i added my own....... oh well at least i doubled the chances that someone else will see it and attempt to answer

First of all LT takes this "fight"...LT needn't even lift his pinky finger.

As for the Celestial vs. Galactus debate, it's widely accepted that even the WEAKEST of the Celestials is equal to, or more powerful than Galactus...but they respect him anyhow because of his place in the Marvel hierarchy.

Living Tribunal could snap his fingers and molecule man's powers would be play-doh.

Originally posted by Scoobless
ok ..... if the beyonder really was just an illusionist, that would mean the secret wars were all fake and happened in peoples heads (including galactus i assume) so if that's all true where did spider-man's black symbiote costume (venom) really come from?????????????????

True. Furthermore, Hulk got his leg broken by Utron as well. And when they came back, Colossus was still in love with that girl he met on Beyonder's world. Utron was brought back to life again. And if it was an illusion, where was the Thing when the FF came back without him?

Illusion? I guess the Galactus, the Celestials, Eternity, Death, Mephisto, and even LT imagined it. If LT could just snapped his fingers, then why didn't he do so in SW II and stopped Beyonder?

Furthermore, if he was just an illusionist, I guess Kurse is an illusion of Beyonder as well. You know Kurse don't you? The resurrected Algrim The Strong that was made by the Beyonder to beat Thor (which he did...and Beta Ray Bill as well). The Kurse that is part of Thor's rogue gallery? I guess those punches Kurse lade on Thor and BRB was just an illusion?

Originally posted by K3VIL
One Celestial is not more powerful than Galactus, Galactus at full power, with his body not hungry for energy, is unstoppable, no physical force can defeat him.In terms of power, he's only under Eternity, Infinity, Lord Chaos, Master Order and the most powerful of all them, the Living Tribunal.

Numinous could kill galactus

LT serves, governs, wields, and judges the MOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST powerful of powers, except One. That one is not named Beyonder.................'nough said.

Originally posted by BobbyD
LT serves, governs, wields, and judges the MOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST powerful of powers, except One. That one is not named Beyonder.................'nough said.

Yet he couldn't do a thing to Beyonder during SW II. All he did was tried to give Beyonder a talking. 😆

So what if LT serves TOAA. Him serving TOAA has nothing to do with anyone else's powers.

Originally posted by Beyonder
True. Furthermore, Hulk got his leg broken by Utron as well. And when they came back, Colossus was still in love with that girl he met on Beyonder's world. Utron was brought back to life again. And if it was an illusion, where was the Thing when the FF came back without him?

Illusion? I guess the Galactus, the Celestials, Eternity, Death, Mephisto, and even LT imagined it. If LT could just snapped his fingers, then why didn't he do so in SW II and stopped Beyonder?

the things that beyonder did (his feats) such as beating up the entire celestial host. that was not really the celestials, because beyonder cant even beat 1 of them. the illusions were the actual beings. if galactus would have shown up really, he wouldnt have been repulsed ( i think thats the word used). if the beyonder really fought the celestials he would have been KILLED. those were the illusions. not the actual events that took place with the heroes.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Furthermore, if he was just an illusionist, I guess Kurse is an illusion of Beyonder as well. You know Kurse don't you? The resurrected Algrim The Strong that was made by the Beyonder to beat Thor (which he did...and Beta Ray Bill as well). The Kurse that is part of Thor's rogue gallery? I guess those punches Kurse lade on Thor and BRB was just an illusion?

the beyonder does have SOME power. but, its not anywhere near what he was "originally -THOUGHT" to be. he might be able to augment kurse, or a few other people even. but hes not anywhere near the top of the totum pole.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Yet he couldn't do a thing to Beyonder during SW II. All he did was tried to give Beyonder a talking. 😆

So what if LT serves TOAA. Him serving TOAA has nothing to do with anyone else's powers.

again you fail to realize 😉 a single celestial would have eaten the beyonder. a single celestial is below eternity. eternity is below LT. you do the math. the extreme beings that showed up during the SW were the illusions. they were beyonder showing off HIS own power. which was creating illusions of beating these higher powered beings.

ok illusions........... i still want a decent explanation about venom and other secret wars story line leftovers