Finally, tangible PROOF of MACRO-EVOLUTION

Started by MC Mike11 pages
Originally posted by Philosophicus
Chimps does share 99% of our DNA - that's a FACT! BUT chimps are not our common ancestor - we and chimps share a common ancestor - a primitive ape species which DON'T exist today. This misconception held by most creationists that evolution claims we evolved from apes or chimps in existence today is ridiculous.
Originally posted by MC Mike
Humans did not evolve from modern day apes. They have a common ancestor.

😛

And I'd like to take this moment to point out it is a sad day when we have to "prove" evolution.

Evolution is just a theory? Well so is plate tectonics, and electricity, and the earth revolving around the sun... etc.

Theories of this type are so close to the truth, the only inconsistencies are the details - not the main ideas.

Hmm... on the same page, I'd also feel its a sad day when we have to see or read something to believe it. I couldnt blame anyone though... there is clearly alot of deception in the world.. as for the bible being a work of supposed fiction.. it may have been changed by men over the years.. but theres many moral guidelines that help many people tackle their otherwise difficult lives.. but kudos to you if you feel yourself to be a better person for saying that 😊

Micro-evolution is true indeed.

Organisms have assumed numerous changes over the course of many years, just like television and computers for example. They have undergone many changes, but they are still televisions and computers.

Don't let your mind wonder. Macro-evolution is NOT possible.

In those regards, we are embarking on a totally different playing field. Cars have evolved over the years too, but none have taken the form of an airplane. Sure, this example is a bit extreme, and I'm referring to machines, but you get the idea.

Just a thought.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Micro-evolution is true indeed.

Organisms have assumed numerous changes over the course of many years, just like television and computers for example. They have undergone many changes, but they are still televisions and computers.

Don't let your mind wonder. Macro-evolution is NOT possible.

In those regards, we are embarking on a totally different playing field. Cars have evolved over the years too, but none have taken the form of an airplane. Sure, this example is a bit extreme, and I'm referring to machines, but you get the idea.

Just a thought.

Your example is not "a bit extreme," it is completely false. A logical analogy with regard to evolution cannot be drawn between living organisms and non-living objets. 🙄

Adam Poe

Using machines or "non-living objects" as you put it to convey the basic theme or point behind my message should have rang a few bells regardless, despite not using living organisms. Thanks for pointing out the obvious, which I clearly indicated in my message. Your over looked the concept.

The first human beings to walk the earth were different in many aspects in comparison to human beings today. Human beings after all these years, subjected to Micro-evolution, are still very much human. And further more, humans today, given millions of years, will NOT manifest into newly designed organisms that have never been in existence before.

Micro-evolution is true, but not Macro-evolution. At any time, will a human being grow gills, claws or a third arm to better the chance of survival. Instead, small changes will occur... much like parts of an automobile. The engines, tires, rims, body colors, suspension, air bags and body styles have changed over the years, but automobiles remain to be automobiles.

You can apply the same concept to living organisms, whether it's bigger brains, shorty or taller statures, hairy heads or bald, walking or crawling you will ALWAYS remain human. Never will humans grow reptilian like skin, replacing the old, because they spent too much time in the sun over the years, or grow wings because too many people have died sky diving.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Adam Poe

Using machines or "non-living objects" as you put it to convey the basic theme or point behind my message should have rang a few bells regardless, despite not using living organisms. Thanks for pointing out the obvious, which I clearly indicated in my message. Your over looked the concept.

The first human beings to walk the earth were different in many aspects in comparison to human beings today. Human beings after all these years, subjected to Micro-evolution, are still very much human. And further more, humans today, given millions of years, will NOT manifest into newly designed organisms that have never been in existence before.

Micro-evolution is true, but not Macro-evolution. At any time, will a human being grow gills, claws or a third arm to better the chance of survival. Instead, small changes will occur... much like parts of an automobile. The engines, tires, rims, body colors, suspension, air bags and body styles have changed over the years, but automobiles remain to be automobiles.

You can apply the same concept to living organisms, whether it's bigger brains, shorty or taller statures, hairy heads or bald, walking or crawling you will ALWAYS remain human. Never will humans grow reptilian like skin, replacing the old, because they spent too much time in the sun over the years, or grow wings because too many people have died sky diving.

Living organisms grow, adapt, and reproduce resulting in variation whereas, non-living objects do not.

To assert that because non-living objects that do not even manifest micro-evolution will never manifest macro-evolution, that living organisms that manifest micro-evolution will also never manifest macro-evolution is a complete falsehood.

Adam Poe

Do you know what macro-evolution is? Don't confuss it with micro-evolution. Give me an example (if you do), of an organism; let's say organism A, that over millions of years will change into a totally different organism... organism B for instance, that has NEVER existed before. In other words, give me an example of how a mouse, could somehow manifest into a rabbit or squirrel. And, if you can't do that, inform me of a organism that was proved to be in existance today SPECIFICALLY from micro-evolution. Just name one.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Do you know what macro-evolution is? Don't confuss it with micro-evolution. Give me an example (if you do), of an organism; let's say organism A, that over millions of years will change into a totally different organism... organism B for instance, that has NEVER existed before. In other words, give me an example of how a mouse, could somehow manifest into a rabbit or squirrel. And, if you can't do that, inform me of a organism that was proved to be in existance today SPECIFICALLY from micro-evolution. Just name one.

The following 22 examples have complete dinosaur-to-bird transitional fossils with no morphological gaps:

Eoraptor, Herrerasaurus, Ceratosaurus, Allosaurus, Compsognathus, Sinosauropteryx, Protarchaeopteryx, Caudipteryx, Velociraptor, Sinovenator, Beipiaosaurus, Sinornithosaurus, Microraptor, Archaeopteryx, Rahonavis, Confuciusornis, Sinornis, Patagopteryx, Hesperornis, Apsaravis, Ichthyornis, and Columba.

Adam Poe

Thank you for the reply. However, you have given me 22 examples of prehistoric dinosaurs manifesting into birds with zero scientific verbage to support your rebuttle. What are the names of these birds? Do they exist today?

Macro-evolution is a theory, and it doesn't correlate with micro-evolution at all. Kiss all hopes of Darwinism goodbye. I wanted examples of mammals, reptiles, amphibians or insects (either one, just one) that exist TODAY that have birthed from macro-evolution.

Surely, if macro-evolution is true, we should see examples of this amazing feat in our present time. Cockroaches have been around since dinosaurs, why hasn't macro-evolution had an effect on them? Why not human beings? What about mosquitoes? What about alligators or crocodiles?

What is your definition of macro-evolution?

Originally posted by ushomefree
Thank you for the reply. However, you have given me 22 examples of prehistoric dinosaurs manifesting into birds with zero scientific verbage to support your rebuttle. What are the names of these birds? Do they exist today?

Macro-evolution is a theory, and it doesn't correlate with micro-evolution at all. Kiss all hopes of Darwinism goodbye. I wanted examples of mammals, reptiles, amphibians or insects (either one, just one) that exist TODAY that have birthed from macro-evolution.

Surely, if macro-evolution is true, we should see examples of this amazing feat in our present time. Cockroaches have been around since dinosaurs, why hasn't macro-evolution had an effect on them? Why not human beings? What about mosquitoes? What about alligators or crocodiles?

What is your definition of macro-evolution?

I provided you with 22 examples of dinosaur-to-bird transitional fossils with no morphological gaps. This is proof enough of macro-evolution, I do not need to present complete phylogenic morphologies of existent organisms or illustrate in which organisms macro-evolution is operating in today. 🙄

Adam Poe

Please read carefully. And... take your time.

The foundation of modern science is built on evolution. Yet, evolution is one of those vague words that mean different ideas to different people. It actually has two meanings:

MICRO-EVOLUTION is the theory that organisms can adapt to changes in their surroundings and develop a LIMITED amount of diversity based on their environment. Variation within a species is possible, such as a Bird's beak getting larger or a moth's wings changing color, but it's limited in scope. Micro-evolution has a solid scientific basis, and no one disputes it's occurrence in nature.

MACRO-EVOLUTION is another ballgame altogether. Also called Darwinian evolution, this theory takes the proven idea of limited change over time and attempts to explain all questions concerning the origins of life in the same manner: Simple organisms branched out over billions of years to create complex organisms like you see inhabiting the world today.

Macro-evolution is driven by NATURAL SELECTION, a survival-of-the-fittest process that has no mind or purpose; organisms that adapt to their environment survive, and those that don't, become extinct. Natural selection causes such features as wings and eyes to develop over extended periods of time as a way for organisms to better adapt to their environments. Staunch evolutionist Richard Dawkins memorably called this evolutionary process "the blind watchmaker."

Although micro-evolution is a theory that evidence confirms, macro-evolution is FAR MORE SPECULATIVE. In fact, scientists have no more evidence today (and argue less) to support macro-evolution than Darwin did. To scientists who believe in a God as a designer and creator, the theory of evolution has NEVER successfully answered the basic questions about how life began or explained the mystery of the DNA code. They also point in recent discoveries as further evidence showing the need for a God as designer, or TRANSCEDENT CAUSAL AGENT (for those who lack faith in God). For example, in Darwin's day, scientists originally thought the cell was a simple structure, but advances in molecular biology over the past 30 years have shown how complex the cell is, making the likelihood of natural selection at the molecular level seemingly impossible.

"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down." -Charles Darwin

Charles Darwin believed that the cell is a relatively simple structure that could've evolved through natural selection. But, as the quote above illustrates, Darwin himself saw holes in his theory should cells be proven to be too structurally complex to have evolved on their own. Due to technological advances over the past 30 years, scientists no longer have to speculate on the cell. They now have the ability to view and understand a cell's composition in the ways that were unheard of decades before.

With this newly discovered knowledge in tow, scientist Michael Behe writes in his book "Darwin's Black Box" that it's IMPOSSIBLE for cells to have evolved through a gradual process, because they're IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX. In other words, a core set of parts has to be present in a cell in order for it to function in the first place.

To explain his point, Behe uses the example of an ordinary mouse trap. Behe argues that a mouse trap is irreducibly complex, because all it's pieces have to be present and in working order for it to function. You can't just put a piece of wood out in the attic and catch a mouse or two, then add a spring to snatch a second, and then assemble the hammer for even more. This increment approach doesn't work.

Instead, all these pieces must be assembled together and functioning properly before the challenge of mouse catching can even begin. In the same way, cells and other living organisms are irreducibly complex, which seems incompatible with the survival-of-the-fittest theory and suggest strong evidence that cells were designed by a transcendent causal agent, or God.

The popular assumption is that the fossil record proves that simple creatures evolved to become complex ones. But, in reality, the fossil record doesn't show the proof of any transitional forms of species that Darwinian evolution requires. Fossils consistently show up as sudden explosions of species with little changes taking place after that in the fossil record.

Darwinian evolution is the required way to explain the origins of the world if you have a naturalistic worldview. It's a belief system.

Originally posted by ushomefree
With this newly discovered knowledge in tow, scientist Michael Behe writes in his book "Darwin's Black Box" that it's IMPOSSIBLE for cells to have evolved through a gradual process, because they're IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX. In other words, a core set of parts has to be present in a cell in order for it to function in the first place.

Evolutionary mechanisms such as co-evolution and frictional change not only make irreducible complexity possible but also expected.

Furthermore, accoring to modern evolutionary theory, cells did not come into being through random processes but have evolved from more primitive precursors.

Originally posted by ushomefree
But, in reality, the fossil record doesn't show the proof of any transitional forms of species that Darwinian evolution requires.

The fossil record is abundant with morphologies of species-to-species transitional fossils in higher taxonomic levels.

If you say so.

If that's the case - then why aren't monkey's turning into Apes in the zoo? Why are there still monkeys and Apes after "millions" of years?

Philosophicus, Can you see or touch the wind? Just because you can't see God or touch God - doesn't mean He's not there.

Originally posted by redheadgurl89
If that's the case - then why aren't monkey's turning into Apes in the zoo? Why are there still monkeys and Apes after "millions" of years?

Evolution is not a random process. The genetic variation on which natural selection acts may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all. The survival and reproductive success of an individual is directly related to the ways its inherited traits function in the context of its local environment. Whether or not an individual survives and reproduces depends on whether it has genes that produce traits that are well adapted to its environment. In other words, the sort of speciation you describe is not occurring in these populations because there is no biological need for it.

The Hominid species is a perfect example of a prehistoric ape species having evolved into the Hominid - Humans for example and todays primates like Chimps share a common ancestor - proof of Macro evolution. Also, wales are also an example of mamals having become marine creatures - previosly they were land animals which evolved into fish-like shapes to adapt to sea-life. Just the mere fact of a mamal living in the sea is proof enough of evolution on a macro scale, also the flying mamal - the bat - another example. It's so damn obvious, for f*ks sake.

readheadgurl89: "If that's the case - then why aren't monkey's turning into Apes in the zoo? Why are there still monkeys and Apes after "millions" of years?

Philosophicus, Can you see or touch the wind? Just because you can't see God or touch God - doesn't mean He's not there."

You obviously have no clue about evolution and the mutative proccess, don't argue on a subject you have no knowledge about.

About God - by the way, you can touch the wind (moving air) - you can feel it on your skin. If there was a god, everyone would have known it...why would god hide from us??? Give me one good reason why there would be a god - what neccesity?

Originally posted by clickclick
There is nothing to be jealous of. As soon as I read that their supposed proof was ape to man (of which it is a fact that there is no evidence for such) I stopped reading.

😆

WHO THE HELL BUMPED THIS SHIT?

And ushomefree is the new whob sock.

EDIT:

Originally posted by MC Mike
Theories of this type are so close to the truth, the only inconsistencies are the details - not the main ideas.

🙄

cockroaches can survive in most of any form of attack, the government has tested on things to kill them, and it continues to be smashing it with a hammer, how much more evolved can something get to living without a head for 2 weeks and only dieing due to a lack of food, not alot more to do in its billions of years of evolution.