I still think Batman wins in a straight up hand to hand fight. Shiva kicked Batgirls ass with a huge smile on her face the whole time (I don't think Cass landed a single blow) then later Cass barely manages to beat a severely weakened Shiva; Batman has much better showings against Shiva. Batgirl is really over rated... but she still beats Nightwing.
He didn't teach current Batgirl anything, David Cain did. You must be thinking of Barbara Gordon, not Cassandra Cain. She's much more potent at hand-to-hand than Batman is, and he's already admitted it. As has been said before, in a simple hand-to-hand fight, Batgirl takes it. But in an all out battle, Batman takes it, cause he'll be going all out.
It's like this:
Shiva beat down Batman, who needed help from Robin to stop her.
Batgirl beat down Shiva
Deathstroke beat down Batman with his bare hands and could have killed him if he didn't get all nice guy on him.
Batgirl beat down Deathstroke, and then CONTINUED to beat him even after he started using guns against her.
Everyone who has fought them both has said that Batgirl is better. ("You're good. Better than your master"😉. Including BATMAN HIMSELF.
They're not in the same league.
Batgirl got her ass handed to her by Shiva, she couldn't even land a single f'n hit on her. Then she barely manages to beat a severly weaken Shiva. Batman on the other hand has held his own against a healthy Shiva (he has even had the edge once)
Why do people bring up that Shiva/Batgirl fight? It would be like if Spider-man got ran over by a truck then Shadowcat beat him up right after... not really impressive is it?
When did Batgirl beat Deathstroke?
I think it was during this encountered that batman wondered who was better between him and Shiva. I do not think Shiva's mind was weakened because if that was the case then why send her along with other powerful folks under the same mind control. If they are not going to protect you or at least stall long enough for you to do what you need to do?
And one more thing batman has redeemed himself from deathstroke. Batman has beaten deathstroke. If not then how do you explain batman having his sword and his riffle as trophies.
That issue that batman fought Deathstroke had batman asking Deathstroke to turn himself in to the police. Batman was not there to take in Deathstroke he was there because Nightwing told him that Deathstroke saved his life.
And besides Deathstroke did not get away from this battle untouched. I believe his said, "If I did not have these enhancements I would not have been able to face the batman." Deathstroke was holding his sides when he was speaking. Not an exact quote but you get the idea. And this was from a batman who was not determined to bring Deathstroke in. Simply because Nightwing told him that Deathstroke saved his life.
Batman to win over Batgirl in hand to hand combat but Batgirl has the advantage.
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=050221033635&q=batgirl
Batgirl vs. Deathstroke.
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=050116000104&q=deathstroke
This does NOT look like a Batman who isn't trying.
How was Shiva weakened in her fight against Batgirl??
Issue 27 of Batgirl: Batgirl's friend in a red cowl says, "You know, ever since you beat Shiva..."
Later in that issue, BATMAN says to Batgirl, "Congratulations. Even I've never beaten Shiva hand-to-hand."
In "Secret Files & Origins," it says of LADY SHIVA:
"In the history of martial arts, one name stands above all the rest: Shiva. Lady Shiva Wu-San has devoted her entire life to the quest for perfection in the martial arts, traveling to every corner of the globe in pursuit of a new technique, a better opponent, another form.
This single-minded passion has led her to become the premier martial artist in the world. Not even Batman has successfully defeated her in solo hand-to-hand combat. In fact, only one person has ever beaten Shiva--Batgirl."
"Secret Files & Origins" then says of BATGIRL:
"The new Batgirl would learn to speak with the help of a telepath, though her new verbal skills impeded her ability to read body language and thus predict her opponent's moves. The martial artist and assassin Lady Shiva helped her regain that talent, but insisted upon a deathmatch in return. In the ensuing fight, Batgirl defeated the previously-unbeaten Shiva and proved she may now be the greatest martial artist in the world."
Shiva beat and killed Batgirl in their first fight, but that was because she was trying to reintegrate her talent into herself. Once she was resurrected, she became one with herself. That was when she beat Shiva.
Of cause the pages that you showed is going to make seem as if the batman was trying his hardest and was determined. But why did you not show it from the beginning.
Where Deathstroke was standing outside a building looking at his intended victim. How he went in trying to do what he does best but was stopped by the batman. And most importantly of all how batman was trying to get Deathstroke to turn himself in to the police and let him clear deathstroke's name. And How he mentions that Nightwing told him that Deathstroke saved his life. You will see that this was not a determined batman. Yes I am pretty sure, these are things you say to someone who you are going to fight to the death with.
You post shows only half of the picture not the whole story. But is still remains that Deathstroke did beat batman. But batman's hands where tied.
Shiva brought Cass back with a some mystic chi technique that took her three years to get ready for that she said she couldnt use again if she wanted to. Cass won because Shiva was weaken from some mystical chi crap and she got lucky on her win, it could have gone either way. Shiva in full health would pawn Cass just like at the start of that comic.
Onyx can land hits on Batgirl in hth so you know Batman can.