Originally posted by Superherovandal
plus without the claws his attacks would only hurt half as much as they normally would. If anyone got hit by a super-dense metal skeleton capable of lasting hits by an extremely angry Savage Hulk I'm quite sure it would hurt more than a normal punch or kick.
You still haven't given a single reason as to why he would be stronger because of his healing factor.
Of course he is going to do more damage with a punch, he has build in brass knuckles but that doesn't make him stronger. And he can opperate at his peak levels for an extended period of time because his muscles don't tire... but that still has nothing to do with strenght (it's called endurance)
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You still haven't given a single reason as to why he would be stronger because of his healing factor.Of course he is going to do more damage with a punch, he has build in brass knuckles but that doesn't make him stronger. And he can opperate at his peak levels for an extended period of time because his muscles don't tire... but that still has nothing to do with strenght (it's called endurance)
Wolverine has superhuman strength, but it's not a result of his healing factor.
wolverine has been cut open, operated on with nothing to dull the pain, has spent days without food or water, thousands of bullets to his body, everyone he cares about gets hurt, adamantium ripped out of him, heavy blood loss, agonizing fires, an emotional wreck...........a kick from batman is nothing compared to wolverines definition of pain. he will run right over batman
Wolverine certainly does not know every martial art ever. If it were a fight without any powers and he were to face Captain America he would get curbstomped badly. And it allows him to take much more punishment. Plus the adamantium also enhances his bone strength and it would allow him to lift more and strain less.
Batman is the world's most accomplished and skilled martial artist. Sure Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva are true masters but they master only a few styles and know a smattering of styles. However Batman is the pinnacle of true masters. He is the highest master in 127 major martial arts styles and he knows at least quadruple amount of other styles he can utilize when needed. He is an accomplished master who has made a style of fighting for himself. He observes and watches his opponents, using their styles against themselves and then switches styles to best counter their own. However, the biggest threat in Batman's martial arts skills is the fact that he can study and learn and then defeat the opponent. Only the masters like Shiva and Master Girigi's ninjas have given Batman a run for his money. He can use a style or a plethora or go full bore and use all of his skills, also this fact makes him an unconventional and unpredictable opponent, quite capable of using Karate and then switching to Aikido, from there to Jujutsu and then Capoeira and from there to Jeet Kune Do and from there Crane and Tiger style and maybe even Drunken boxing. While combating Batman, you do not face a style, you face different styles intermeshed into a fine art, a poetry of motion and discipline. From Aikido to Yaw-Yan, Batman is the most dangerous combatant on Earth. Many obscure specialties of forms and skills are in his possession. He is the master, second to Master Kirigi himself, in the art of the Whispering Hand. This punch can obliterate bodies, destroy the whole target or the real inside. Or it can be used to knock out, cause heart attacks. Only Kirigi and Batman have progressed in this art to this level. The Tiger Fist he learnt from H'Sien Tan in the Himalayas also. The Tiger is punch that can destroy anything, from wood to granite. It is reputedly the most difficult upper cut style punch ever devised. It requires the wielder to know his body, to completely and utterly be in tune with himself and the surround world in order to succeed and then there is the Leopard Punch. It is Lady Shiva's trademark and yet Batman is the one who's mastered this technique to the level that not only is he lethal, he can disarm and disable opponents with it, a level of mastery Shiva refuses to learn. Then there are other techniques the Bat uses, to disarm and disable opponents: from spinning attacks to arm locks to pins. All in all, he is a one-man army.
When a martial artist reaches a special level, he becomes enlightened. He knows the history of his art, the masters and their styles. Like them Batman has reached and went well beyond that level. Batman has the ability to mimic different masters' styles of fighting, their conduct even to the level of fooling other masters. Also he can look a combatant and judge his or her flaws and exploit them, but he can also see the style, what style it is and who has taught him or her. This has given him leads in the past and will do so in the future.
To add to the things, Cain taught Bruce to read his opponents' moves and body language. He's not as well taught as Cassandra Cain but he is almost as good as Cain in this field. Furthermore Batman's skill in the Haragei, the hyper expansion of senses, and the Kiai, the ability to feel someone's intent long before it happens, this is called Sakki. This means that Batman has the ability to control the fight in any which way and he is even able to, thanks to his training, take the combat from the physical plain to the mental level, as demonstrated in Legends of the Bat: Tao pt 2. Here Batman demonstrated his near full capabilities as he took the combat to the mental plane, his Sakki, Kiai and Haragei turning the combat into a contest of wills. No physical punches were thrown but after that exhausting battle, Batman emerged victorious. Sakki is the intent, but in many ways it can be utilized quite a lot like the Chi into projecting the mental energy into someone else.
Skills
Boxing
Even though Batman is the pinnacle and the epitome of the master martial artist, there are other things the Bat knows. Ted Grant, the Wildcat, was Bruce Wayne's first teacher in combat. From the all time greatest heavy weight champion Batman also learnt many things along with the noble art of pugilism. Even though boxing does fall under the martial arts, there are many other forms of boxing, from normal back alley fights to completely bare knuckle fights in illegal rings. Ted Grant made sure that Bruce Wayne could walk into the ring and that he could walk out again. Ted Grant taught Bruce everything, from a correct way to breath, to take a punch and to throw a punch, he's taught him to train and train others and in many ways, Batman's boxing ability is old school and very devastating. Of course every boxer and a fighter has their special own style, the way they move, breath, throw punches and so on. Ted Grant taught Bruce to read these and thanks to Batman's knowledge in the art, he can be quite sure where the fighter has trained and by who. Just like he can do with the martial arts, even though with Boxing he cannot be so precise.
Batman is quite adept at martial arts.
Again this is where Ted Grant's handiwork fits in. Batman is an excellent boxer, on the level of Cassius Clay aka Mohammed Ali and Mike Tyson. He can punch through a wall and keep fighting. But, brawling is many things and a skill Batman has perfected for undercover work. You cannot let people know always that you can fight, nor can you show your boxing skills all the time and nor does boxing fit everything. So, brawling. Throws, kicks, punches, everything executed in perfect timing and with excellence.
Not is Batman perhaps the ultimate unarmed combatant on the face of the planet due to the sheer amount of the different arts he masters but he is also a master shadow warrior, a ninja of true legend, a master rivaled by only a handful by men.
Under Kirigi, Tsunetomo and Chu Chin Li and then expanded by Cain Batman has learnt the art of the ninja but also the art of the Tao and the Chinese assassin, making him much, much more dangerous than a normal ninja. First of all he is one of the foremost combatants on Earth, with or without his weapons, but his further training has expanded his senses and skills to the level of rivaling metahumans.
Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.
Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.
This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.
From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.
The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.
Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.
As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.
Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.
The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it. May it be weapons, technology or knowledge, the Bat will always
HE is definitely better than Wolverine
I think that Batman is better fighter then Wolverine...but Wolverine will win this because the healing factor.
Batman is many things but one of the most character defining traits about him is his willpower. It is higher than some most of the gods in the DC universe. He has been shown to be able to resist DeSaad's torture for decades and actually break the torturer. His willpower is strong enough to keep going when completely decimated. Only thrice he has been broke in the continuity. Bane made him run the gauntlet and he faced all of his rogues gallery, Joker broke him later on but the first man to ever break the Bat was the reverend Blackfire. Batman's will is indomitable, it is extremely difficult to break him and even if he is defeated, he will come back, always. In many ways Batman finds strength in his defeats. When it comes to willpower, Batman has it in spades, even enough to resist telepathy and even brainwashing.
Batman has pretty damn high pain threshold.