Originally posted by Sentry
If it's GL Hal, no way he wins this. Cosmic Spidey wins this.
GL hal is THE MAN!!!!
He kicks that scrawny no-good spiderman all the way to hell.
Originally posted by illadelph12
I think people need to re-read a couple comic books.Now, Cosmic Spiderman would possibly defeat Hal as a regular GL.
Now, as for Parallax, he doesn't have the power, independently, to create the universe. A lot of people got it twisted. Hal snapped after Coast City was destroyed and became Parallax. In his insanity, he came to the conclusion that the only way to fix that tragedy was to was to take the leftover instabilities from the Crisis on Infinite Earths and use them to unmake the universe, then remake it in a image of his design, and he was stopped because a group of heroes from that universe thwarted his plan an allowed a normal big bang to occur, so the universe formed in it's natural order. Parallax didn't use the power of Oa to create the universe, he tried to use the power of Oa to manipulate energies from the Crisis on Infinite Earths to recreate the birth of the universe in a design he'd control. Don't forget, Parallax sacrificed himself to stop a giant sun eating alien. If he was powerful enough to recreate the universe, that wouldn't have been necessary.
The following is from the following issues: Zero Hour #1 (this is where Parallax is revealed as the bad guy, and where reality starts to be deleted)
Zero Hour #0 - (This is where Parallax is finally defeated, where the universe is re-started by the heroes and not the way Parallax wanted t do it, and where Parallax and Kyle, soon to be Ion, get thrown all over the time stream).
Hal Jordan lost his mind, as you correctly said, after the whole Coast City thing. That is when he tried to remake the city as an emerald place, where his brought his dreams to life and tried to bring the dead back and all that stuff. This was where he started to walk the road untravelled.
And it is where the guardians of Oa started to worry that homie had lost it.
Hal decided that to do what he needed (wanted) to do he would have to gain more power, and that meant going to Oa and taking it for himself (since there was no way the Guardians were going to just give it to him to use carte blanche).
Thus he went there, defeated all the remaining members of the corps (leaving only one alive - some dude called Ganthet who gave his ring to Kyle), fought and killed Sinestro (who had been brought back by the Guardians, powered up, and sent to stop Hal - but in vain), and destroyed all the Guardians apart from one.
And it is at this point where Hal entered the central power battery and became Parallax.
I think we are both in agreement here.
Now, this is where i think we will begin to differ.
Hal, as Parallax, starts to travel the universe. And he gets even more power along the way.
It is at this point that he realizes that he has so much power that not only can he re-create Coast City, but he can restart the universe as well.
His plan, as stated in the comic, was to recreate the universe in a way where Coast City was never destroyed.
And so he starts.
He starts by destroying the timestream and all existence, from both directions, using what the comic referred to entropy faults or fissures (one of them).
And this is zero hour.
But he never managed to get to the point where he coudl restart it, since it was at this point (as he destroyed it) that he was stopped.
Thus, Parallax kicked the universe's @$$, and he would have recreated it had everything gone according to plan.
Anyways, here comes another part where we will disagree.
You say that Hal having to sacrifice himself to the Sun Eater proves he was not that powerful to begin with.
I disagree.
After the Zero Hour debacle Parallax lost vast amounts of his power. Enormous amounts. While he was still vastly more powerful than a normal GL, he was nowhere near the god level he was at before and during Zero Hour.
Although weakened he still travelled to the other end of the universe, where some race of celestial giants stood around the 'Source,' and battled some cyborg creature.
And when he got back that was when Earth was being threatened by the Sun Eater (and it was at this time that Superman started to lose his powers, some books down the line ending up powerless, before going into that whole 'energy superman', blue and red superman, and such junk that confused the heck out of me).
Although weak, Parallax was still the only being capable of stopping the Sun Eater. The JLA, and all the DC heroes, had tried and failed.
Thus Kyle basically asked Parallax for aid, and Hal agreed ....teleporting them (even though weaker than he was before) to our solar system.
There, out of sorrow and remorse for what he had done, he decided on the course of action to take.
He drove back the Sun Eater to one side of the sun, and then absorbed him .....using all of his remaining energies in the process, and thus dying.
As a hero.
After this Hal became the Spectre.
Kyle had a similar surprise of his own. After the zero hour event, where Parallax bled off most of his power, this power started to slowly accumulate in Kyle until he was just as powerful as Parallax was at his prime. Thus Kyle became Ion.
Anyways, the part where we shall agree to disagree is one:
1) Parallax being able to recreate the universe. He had already gone far enough in the destruction part, and he knew he could restart it. He was stopped before he restarted it.
2) Wehn Parallax fought the Sun Eater he was nowhere as powerful as he was at his peak. Although still the only person capable of stopping this threat, and still having powers up the wazoo, he was not the same Parallax that came up with the whole Zero Hour concept. Parallax then was a veritable god, but by the Sun Eater thing he had lost a large chunk of his powers.
My reply to you bringing up Demidawg's posts and mine:
None needed.
They were not even related to what you were trying to insinuate. Hence it is unnecessary to spend too much time answering you on that apart from maybe a minute or two.
You obviously lack the mental faculties to distinguish where posts are directed, and thus if you are unable to even get that basic nuance you would obviously not be able to comprehend anything deeper than 9th grade-level elaboration.
I could say more, but I would basically be wasting my time with a person such as yourself, and anyways i need to be preparing to go to work.
See ya later kiddo.
My reply to Illadelph12 (who, unlike you Beyonder, and whoever the guy who was saying galaxies are bigger than the universe is called, has the ability to come up with a coherent and logical argument):
The following is from the following issues: Zero Hour #1 (this is where Parallax is revealed as the bad guy, and where reality starts to be deleted)
Zero Hour #0 - (This is where Parallax is finally defeated, where the universe is re-started by the heroes and not the way Parallax wanted t do it, and where Parallax and Kyle, soon to be Ion, get thrown all over the time stream).
Hal Jordan lost his mind, as you correctly said, after the whole Coast City thing. That is when he tried to remake the city as an emerald place, where his brought his dreams to life and tried to bring the dead back and all that stuff. This was where he started to walk the road untravelled.
And it is where the guardians of Oa started to worry that homie had lost it.
Hal decided that to do what he needed (wanted) to do he would have to gain more power, and that meant going to Oa and taking it for himself (since there was no way the Guardians were going to just give it to him to use carte blanche).
Thus he went there, defeated all the remaining members of the corps (leaving only one alive - some dude called Ganthet who gave his ring to Kyle), fought and killed Sinestro (who had been brought back by the Guardians, powered up, and sent to stop Hal - but in vain), and destroyed all the Guardians apart from one.
And it is at this point where Hal entered the central power battery and became Parallax.
I think we are both in agreement here.
Now, this is where i think we will begin to differ.
Hal, as Parallax, starts to travel the universe. And he gets even more power along the way.
It is at this point that he realizes that he has so much power that not only can he re-create Coast City, but he can restart the universe as well.
His plan, as stated in the comic, was to recreate the universe in a way where Coast City was never destroyed.
And so he starts.
He starts by destroying the timestream and all existence, from both directions, using what the comic referred to entropy faults or fissures (one of them).
And this is zero hour.
But he never managed to get to the point where he coudl restart it, since it was at this point (as he destroyed it) that he was stopped.
Thus, Parallax kicked the universe's @$$, and he would have recreated it had everything gone according to plan.
Anyways, here comes another part where we will disagree.
You say that Hal having to sacrifice himself to the Sun Eater proves he was not that powerful to begin with.
I disagree.
After the Zero Hour debacle Parallax lost vast amounts of his power. Enormous amounts. While he was still vastly more powerful than a normal GL, he was nowhere near the god level he was at before and during Zero Hour.
Although weakened he still travelled to the other end of the universe, where some race of celestial giants stood around the 'Source,' and battled some cyborg creature.
And when he got back that was when Earth was being threatened by the Sun Eater (and it was at this time that Superman started to lose his powers, some books down the line ending up powerless, before going into that whole 'energy superman', blue and red superman, and such junk that confused the heck out of me).
Although weak, Parallax was still the only being capable of stopping the Sun Eater. The JLA, and all the DC heroes, had tried and failed.
Thus Kyle basically asked Parallax for aid, and Hal agreed ....teleporting them (even though weaker than he was before) to our solar system.
There, out of sorrow and remorse for what he had done, he decided on the course of action to take.
He drove back the Sun Eater to one side of the sun, and then absorbed him .....using all of his remaining energies in the process, and thus dying.
As a hero.
After this Hal became the Spectre.
Kyle had a similar surprise of his own. After the zero hour event, where Parallax bled off most of his power, this power started to slowly accumulate in Kyle until he was just as powerful as Parallax was at his prime. Thus Kyle became Ion.
Anyways, the part where we shall agree to disagree is one:
1) Parallax being able to recreate the universe. He had already gone far enough in the destruction part, and he knew he could restart it. He was stopped before he restarted it.
2) Wehn Parallax fought the Sun Eater he was nowhere as powerful as he was at his peak. Although still the only person capable of stopping this threat, and still having powers up the wazoo, he was not the same Parallax that came up with the whole Zero Hour concept. Parallax then was a veritable god, but by the Sun Eater thing he had lost a large chunk of his powers.
That's cool Spetnaz. My only retort, because we're both kinda saying the same thing if you think about it, except for where you say Hal lost power. I feel after his defeat in his seemingly 'omnipotent' persona he lost a bit of will and was grief stricken that his plan to re-create the universe and restore Coast City failed, thus, not being in the same mindstate, he didn't wield the same control over the power of Oa as before (not to mention that he was foiled by lesser heroes in his 'god-like' Parallax state. If he was truly god-like, they wouldn't have been able to stop him).
Also. Parallax, under his own power (the power of Oa), can not create and uncreate the universe/existence. He could, however, manipulate weak points in the space/time continuum and manipulate the fabric of exixtence, but he couldn't simply create a universe independently, without that manipulation. Like you stated:
"He starts by destroying the timestream and all existence, from both directions, using what the comic referred to [as] entropy faults or fissures (one of them). And this is zero hour"
The "entropy faults or fissures" were caused during the Crisis on Infinite Earths storyline. Without these imperfections in the DCU's space/time for Hal as Parallax to manipulate, he doesn't have the power to create or re-create existence, and in all actuality, all he really would have done would be to re-shape what was already there, like tearing down a house piece by piece then rebuilding the house in a different design on the same foundation.