Hawkman vs. Spider-Man

As mentioned earlier the Hawks can create powerful wind blasts too

1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/BB044-07.jpg

2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman04-04.jpg

3a. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/BB044-03.jpg
3b. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/BB044-04.jpg

Here's Kendra mentally controlling her wings without her using them
1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkgirl058-p05.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkgirl058-p06.jpg

Originally posted by Scoobless
I think your dictionary and my dictionary have different definitions of "instantly"

😐

hmmm?

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-21-09.jpg

Originally posted by SamZED
Those are great feats and im glad youre working to give Hawkman the respect he deserves but there's no need to lowball his opponent. Jigsaw? Not a battle tested character?
Jigsaw never broke Spider-man's arm during a fight. Also it was later confirmed that it wasnt supposed to be Jigsaw at all but a villain with super strength, artists mistake. Makes sense concidering Spider-man oneshotted the actual Jigsaw several issues later. And even if that was Jigsaw dont you think that should be disregarded as PIS? Looking at all the times Spider-man supported building, lifted cars, cought falling helicopters etc but gets his hand snapped by a human?

and you missed the point, Jigsaw is battle tested and that's why he won which goes back to my point against skilled hand to hand compatents Spider-Man doesn't do great against. Jigsaw also don't have thousands of years experience like Hawman does either.

Jigsaw DID break his arm, the rest is them trying to backpedal as they had huge negative comments over it.

Originally posted by -K-M-
As mentioned earlier the Hawks can create powerful wind blasts too

1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/BB044-07.jpg

2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman04-04.jpg

3a. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/BB044-03.jpg
3b. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/BB044-04.jpg

Here's Kendra mentally controlling her wings without her using them
1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkgirl058-p05.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkgirl058-p06.jpg

hmmm?

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-21-09.jpg

and you missed the point, Jigsaw is battle tested and that's why he won which goes back to my point against skilled hand to hand compatents Spider-Man doesn't do great against. Jigsaw also don't have thousands of years experience like Hawman does either.

Jigsaw DID break his arm, the rest is them trying to backpedal as they had huge negative comments over it.

Thousand years of fighting experience rarely mean anything in comicbooks and are often overshadowed by several years of MA training. And vise versa depending on the character. Key point -
4) Spider-man already has humiliated Kingpin, Batroc, oneshotted DD, Bullseye, Taskmaster and many many other experienced battle tested h2h combatants. All it took him - CIS off.
So the idea that he will fail here because he "doesn't do good" against experienced fighters is moot. And what's "battle tested" anyway? How's Jigsaw battle tested while Spider-man who fought in several wars, defeated gazillion opponents half of whom were superhumans.. Is not battle tested? That's the only thing i dont get.

Originally posted by SamZED
I didnt miss your point, I disagreed with it for several reasons. Here are my points.
1) Spider-man effortlessly oneshotted Jigsaw several issues later so Jigsaw is a terrible example.
2) Even if we ignore what writers said and accept the crazy idea that an ordinary peak human succeeded where hundreds of superhumans failed... it still doesnt help prove a point... because when this so called "Jigsaw" broke Spider-man's arm they werent fighting. He didnt "win". And so it doesnt help prove a point anout skilled h2h combatants.
And 3) if we're gonna use this example as an average showing for Spider-man's durability we might as well accept Hulk getting beaten by a snake, Surfer getting armbarred by BP and Superman getting koed by an exploding gas station. Lowballing is what it is.

Thousand years of fighting experience rarely mean anything in comicbooks and are often overshadowed by several years of MA training. And vise versa depending on the character. Key point -
4) Spider-man already has humiliated Kingpin, Batroc, oneshotted DD, Bullseye, Taskmaster and many many other experienced battle tested h2h combatants. All it took him - CIS off.
So the idea that he will fail here because he "doesn't do good" against experienced fighters is moot. And what's "battle tested" anyway? How's Jigsaw battle tested while Spider-man who fought in several wars, defeated gazillion opponents half of whom were superhumans.. Is not battle tested? That's the only thing i dont get.

1. Not really as Jigsaw still broke his arm
2. No he didn't win, but Hawkman with superior strength, abilities and fighting skill and abilities is it farfetched to believe Hawkman couldn't replicate it? Definetly not. Spider-Man has been ko'ed by regular strength people FYI
3. Very true, but as I said against skilled fighters Spider-Man struggled with. Until the prison fight, Kingpin has had his number (If you go by averages which we say Spider-Man has a worse track record then good against him), Captain America has beat him, Daredevil-Black Panther-Tarantula/Black Tarantula-Punisher-Moon Knight, etc have gotten the better of him. Actually when did he one-shot DD? I've never seen this and curious to see it.

Battle tested is going for the kill, experienced in combat, and experienced in hand to hand skill. Which Spider-Man is not. He is a hero, but his wars are nothing what Hawkman has been put through and if you are trying to compare them..... don't. Hawkman will throw a blade at your head and not care about the outcome, SPider-Man is not that cruel.

EDIT: Just saw now your discrediting Hawkman's experience (which he was trained in MA, as well as many other fighting styles)? Yeah were done here

Hawkman 9+/10.

Really don't think it's that close. HM has a vastly superior offense, and his standard weaponry is more than capable of dealing with webbing. It's well within his capabilities to tag Spiderman, and when he connects with his mace it's basically game over. He pretty much has every advantage.

IMO isn't not really very close at all 😬

People aren't giving Carter any credit because, for the most part, his character sucks and he's unpopular.

Originally posted by -K-M-
1. Not really as Jigsaw still broke his arm
2. No he didn't win, but Hawkman with superior strength, abilities and fighting skill and abilities is it farfetched to believe Hawkman couldn't replicate it? Definetly not. Spider-Man has been ko'ed by regular strength people FYI
3. Very true, but as I said against skilled fighters Spider-Man struggled with. Until the prison fight, Kingpin has had his number (If you go by averages which we say Spider-Man has a worse track record then good against him), Captain America has beat him, Daredevil-Black Panther-Tarantula/Black Tarantula-Punisher-Moon Knight, etc have gotten the better of him. Actually when did he one-shot DD? I've never seen this and curious to see it.

Battle tested is going for the kill, experienced in combat, and experienced in hand to hand skill. Which Spider-Man is not. He is a hero, but his wars are nothing what Hawkman has been put through and if you are trying to compare them..... don't. Hawkman will throw a blade at your head and not care about the outcome, SPider-Man is not that cruel.

1) Key point - not during a fight.. so it still has nothing to do with how Spider-man does against skilled combatants. While Spider-man oneshotted him in 1 on 1 confrontation. So yes bad example.
2) You're basing this entire argument on the idea that Jigsaw/Spider-man incident is an average display of Spider-man's durabilty while its not. If it really was Jigsaw then its PIS. Anyway you look at it really. Jigsaw doesnt have the strength to pull that off. Spider-man's bones withstand tons of weight as well as class 20-50 punches on daily basis. Sometimes gets hurt by less yes, but taking steelshattering punches like they're nothing.. IS his average. You cant apply this "Jigsaw" showing on a vs forum like its a norm for him.
3) Yes and as I pointed out CIS was involved in 95% of the examples you mentioned. Almost always is with Spider-man, he even holds back when he fight Green Goblin, let alone Captain America whom he basically worships. Spider-man has beaten Kingpin before but he struggled with him. Reason? CIS. The prison fight is not an exception of the rule, its just an example of what happens when Spider-man stops @$&"*^ around. And even then he was still holding back. So again, it doesnt change anything for the vs forum where characters fight in character But still at their best. So far it seems you're taking absolute worst showings of Spider-man and assume thats the average he will display in a PIS free CIS free all out vs forum battle.
4) Out of all the qualities you listed.. The only thing thats keeping Spider-man from entering your "battle tested" list.. is the lack of killer instinct. Because Spider-man IS very experienced in combat, he IS very experienced in h2h (in fact he WAS experienced EVEN before all the training he recently recieved, now he's just a beast) and if you think he's not you need a serious update. Im not trying to compare them, I already admitted im not that educated on HM. But I AM very good at Spider-math. And i can tell when he's being understimated or outright lowballed. And thats what im seeing here. I could start listing countless feats like taking class 100 combos and getting back up, knocking out class 100 bricks, punching THROUGH Iron Man's armor, shattering pavement in a 20foot raidus with a mere SHOCKWAVE FROM his punch, speedblitzing multiple superhumanly fast characters, outreacting speedsters and teleporters, jumping through moving rotors of a helicopters while carrying someone, dodging sniper bullet after its fired, dodging lightnings, outracing bullets, dodging machinegunfire from several hundred people while crrying someone all in closed space with little place to maneuver, taking down hundreds of opponents while holding back or fighting for several days non-stop etc etc etc but I dont see the point.. BECAUSE at the end of the day im still going to have to take your word, if you say HM's is better then so be it. Im perfeclty fine with it. But I wont be able to believe it if I see that in order to make an argument for HM.. you have to lowball Spider-man. And thats whats happening.

PS typing from my cell so cant post the DD scan right now, sorry.

Dont make me post the scans Stilt. You know which ones.

I'm actually impressed you typed all that on your phone. I have tried to reply with my cell and get maybe 2-3 sentences.

Lol its a pain in the ass but im sick so lots of free time lol

Originally posted by SamZED
Dont make me post the scans Stilt. You know which ones.

I'm not afraid, you're typing from your cell.

The punchline:

Originally posted by Cogito
Hawkman 9+/10.

Really don't think it's that close. HM has a vastly superior offense, and his standard weaponry is more than capable of dealing with webbing. It's well within his capabilities to tag Spiderman, and when he connects with his mace it's basically game over. He pretty much has every advantage.

IMO isn't not really very close at all 😬

People aren't giving Carter any credit because, for the most part, his character sucks and he's unpopular.

👆 I pretty much hate all winged characters, but Hawkman is the exception.

(claps his hands)

Well done...

A decades old, forgotten comic and a comic with a mistake in it.

Really, well done.

😂

Seen worse spidey showings. The enforcers pretty much did it early on. So has the russian, etc.

Is the jigsaw thing that keeps coming up the raft incident from Avengers? Wasn't even sure who that guy was until you guys brought him up here.

The jigsaw thing was actually supposed to be the wrecker breaking spiderman's arm, if the artist did his job correctly there'd be nothing strange about that. I remember reading the graphic novel of that with the raft archives at the back of the book and being surprised that in the same book they had jigsaw ranked at human level strength. If anyone wants to count that as actually jigsaw, how can it be used here if it's indisputably PIS?

Originally posted by JayDaDon
The jigsaw thing was actually supposed to be the wrecker breaking spiderman's arm, if the artist did his job correctly there'd be nothing strange about that. I remember reading the graphic novel of that with the raft archives at the back of the book and being surprised that in the same book they had jigsaw ranked at human level strength. If anyone wants to count that as actually jigsaw, how can it be used here if it's indisputably PIS?

Wrecker? I thought it was supposed to be Piledriver.

Anyway, rumours are rumours... what happened on panel counts. None of the Wrecking Crew have a disfigured face, so it's kinda hard to confuse them with Jigsaw.

Pretty sure it was bendis who said it was supposed to be written as wrecker or another member of the wrecking crew. Could be wrong but that's how I remember it. Can't blame the artist too much, they had ALOT of d-listers to draw in that story, so it may have been hard to keep track. Again even so, PIS.

Originally posted by SamZED
3) Yes and as I pointed out CIS was involved in 95% of the examples you mentioned. Almost always is with Spider-man, he even holds back when he fight Green Goblin, let alone Captain America whom he basically worships. Spider-man has beaten Kingpin before but he struggled with him. Reason? CIS. The prison fight is not an exception of the rule, its just an example of what happens when Spider-man stops @$&"*^ around. And even then he was still holding back. So again, it doesnt change anything for the vs forum where characters fight in character But still at their best. So far it seems you're taking absolute worst showings of Spider-man and assume thats the average he will display in a PIS free CIS free all out vs forum battle.

I thought CIS was still on? So yeah, fighting to the best of their ability, but as you said, CIS is a big factor as to why he loses....

^ that really would depend on what they fought about, and what was attached to the loss or victory. Let's say that he thought that Hawkman was threatening his Aunt May, then he'd be pulling out the multiple building wrecka's on his Osiris looking ass.