Superman and Flash vs Jugs , and Hulk

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Read Draco's previous post, I was replying to it. I was implying that Flash is the most powerful member of the JLA with speed alone.

Someone is definitely different than something. A block of stone is contiguous throughout. Same molecules everywhere. Organic matter is not so, it has many, many diferent types of molecules in different quantities and disparity. Living organic matter is even more different, as it's molecules are in constant motion. It would be a much different matter if he had vibrated through a person before. Gambit is a perfect example. He can charge inorganic matter, but he cannot charge living organic matter. As I have asked before, has Flash ever vibrated through someone, and caused them to explode?

Draco has told me time and time again that the Flash can vibrate through force fields, and that he has done it before.

Flash has more control over his molecules than we can comprehend. Living matter or not, there is no good reason that he should be incapable of passing through it. I have never seen him do so, but that fact can be attributed to a number of things. Flash has never said "I can't vibrate through living things and make them explode", and until he does, far be it from any of us to say he's incapable.

As to Flash being able to vibrate through force fields, hey, more power to him. He can take out Juggernaut the same way he takes out Hulk.

Originally posted by nigel45
Flash has more control over his molecules than we can comprehend. Living matter or not, there is no good reason that he should be incapable of passing through it. I have never seen him do so, but that fact can be attributed to a number of things. Flash has never said "I can't vibrate through living things and make them explode", and until he does, far be it from any of us to say he's incapable.

As to Flash being able to vibrate through force fields, hey, more power to him. He can take out Juggernaut the same way he takes out Hulk.

That is your opinion. Until it is proven that Flash can defeat anyone by vibrating through them, don't use the argument. If a character doesn't use a power in any of his comic books, ultimately, he doesn't possess it. Name one character that has a power that he has never used. You can't, of course. If you have a power, it shows up somewhere in one of your comics.

There also has to be a limit to what Flash can cause to explode. If Flash vibrated through a block of solid adamantium, do you think it would explode? Hulk is much more durable than any of the machinery or anything else that Flash has vibrated through. Even if flash could vibrate through Hulk, how do you know he'd explode? He's taken nukes before and walked away.

What many of the Flashes fans need to realize is that speed is not absolute. According to you, this guy should be unbeatable.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
[Read Draco's previous post, I was replying to it. I was implying that Flash is the most powerful member of the JLA with speed alone.

Someone is definitely different than something. A block of stone is contiguous throughout. Same molecules everywhere. Organic matter is not so, it has many, many diferent types of molecules in different quantities and disparity. Living organic matter is even more different, as it's molecules are in constant motion. It would be a much different matter if he had vibrated through a person before. Gambit is a perfect example. He can charge inorganic matter, but he cannot charge living organic matter. As I have asked before, has Flash ever vibrated through someone, and caused them to explode?

Draco has told me time and time again that the Flash can vibrate through force fields, and that he has done it before.]

Actually a stone is NOT continuos, it consists of several different elements. The only way any large object can be continous is if it consists of the same element throughout and I have never seen the element rock on the periodic table of elements. On a molecular level you and I are no different than the keyboard we're typing on other than the specific molecules that are linked, basic highschool chemistry.

Not the same element, hedgemon, the same molecules. Rocks are composed of the same molecules throughout, hence they are *contiguous,* (not to be confused with continuous. That's not a typo,) On a molecular level we are far different than a keyboard or a rock or any other contiguous substance. Are keyboards composed of protiens, phospholipids, nucleic acids or any other such organic compounds? Of course not. I think you mean on an atomic level, but even then, you're way off.

The flash speeds up molecules by vibrating his own causing them to strike the molecules of an object setting off a chain reaction that causes the entire object to vibrate until exploding, remembering this why would the molecular complexity of an object alter this reaction.

Easy. Why does it take more energy to break down a covalent bond than it does to seperate an ionic bond, or a hydrogen bond. As I said contiguity matters. It would be easier for him to charge up a rock, or a machine, because rocks and most metals are simple, contiguously structured forms of matter. The molecules of organic compounds differ drastically in size, complexity, and behavior.

A more simple form of reasoning is, why hasn't he ever caused anyone to explode?

To make note, everything Flash vibrates through does not explode.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Swanky, has Flash vibrated through someone before?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Easy. Why does it take more energy to break down a covalent bond than it does to seperate an ionic bond, or a hydrogen bond. As I said contiguity matters. It would be easier for him to charge up a rock, or a machine, because rocks and most metals are simple, contiguously structured forms of matter. The molecules of organic compounds differ drastically in size, complexity, and behavior.

A more simple form of reasoning is, why hasn't he ever caused anyone to explode?

OK but this is a guy who can run at the speed of light I think he could produce sufficient energy.

He hasnt done it before because, surprise! hes a super HERO. He doesnt kill, or because its just to graphic, or because the writers just never thought of it.

If Flash has never caused anyone to explode, why should we assume he can or will do so in this fight? I am sure the writers have thought of it, but that would be overpowering Flash, wouldn't it?

Because this a hypothetical vs forum and in this forum we assume that the characters will go all out and use every ability available to them unless stated otherwise by the thread creator.

Flash has never proven that he has the power to make people explode. As I have stated and proved, people and objects are different.

The durability of the object matters as well. If Flash vibrated through a block of solid adamantium, do you think it would explode?

Yes I do and you cant say Im wrong because adamantium is NOT real and neither is the flash or any of this, which is why unless the writers expressly state the flash cannot do it and since we have seen him destroy inorganic material it is more than reasonable to assume he can kill a person.

This may be no longer true but I thought that Flash had to resist the call of the speed force every time he pulled off very powerful speed feats or ran a certain speeds. Also remember that Juggernaut was still fighting when that demon burnt him down to his skeleton when the demon had already drained about 99.9% of Jugg's power

Originally posted by Pepito
Also remember that Juggernaut was still fighting when that demon burnt him down to his skeleton when the demon had already drained about 99.9% of Jugg's power

Yeah I remember that, now that is overpowered.

You are overetimating Flash, Hedgemon. This guy you're talking about is virtually unbeatable.

Depending on it's density, Flash has had a hard time vibrating through several materials. Adamantium is the highest density metal in the universe. No way in hell he's going to make it explode, much less, vibrate through it.

You don't go by what the writers haven't said Flash can do, you go by what the writers have said that Flash can do. Hell, the writers never said Hulk couldn't beat. Does that mean he can't?

Both Hulk and Juggernaut can heal from being reduced to a skeleton, and both have done so. That doesn't make them overpowered.

The simple fact is, Flash cannot vibrate through Hulk or Juggernaut and make them explode. He hasn't done it before, and he won't do it in this fight, because he simply cannot. Eventually, (after a long ass time) he'll be knocked out, and then it's Juggernaut and Hulk vs. Superman. If not, Superman will be felled first by both Hulk and Juggernaut, and it's Flash vs. Hulk and Juggernaut. Either way, Hulk and Juggy win.

then we can say SS can do it also rite since his much much faster than flash also.

so that mean SS can beat anyone lol just by this Vibrating bullshit since he moves from galaxy to galaxy in seconds at his full power he can make anyone explode.

I really don't like this idea , of Exploding people by moving in makes no Scientific sence.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
You are overetimating Flash, Hedgemon. This guy you're talking about is virtually unbeatable.

Depending on it's density, Flash has had a hard time vibrating through several materials. Adamantium is the highest density metal in the universe. No way in hell he's going to make it explode, much less, vibrate through it.

You don't go by what the writers haven't said Flash can do, you go by what the writers have said that Flash can do. Hell, the writers never said Hulk couldn't beat. Does that mean he can't?

Both Hulk and Juggernaut can heal from being reduced to a skeleton, and both have done so. That doesn't make them overpowered.

The simple fact is, Flash cannot vibrate through Hulk or Juggernaut and make them explode. He hasn't done it before, and he won't do it in this fight, because he simply cannot. Eventually, (after a long ass time) he'll be knocked out, and then it's Juggernaut and Hulk vs. Superman. If not, Superman will be felled first by both Hulk and Juggernaut, and it's Flash vs. Hulk and Juggernaut. Either way, Hulk and Juggy win.

Im not only basing on the fact that the writers said he couldnt do it but also because he can something VERY simliar (go through inorganic objects)

The Hulk couldn't beat what?

The hulk and jugg are not normal beings they are superheroes with powers, they could be exceptions.

You cant tell me that that doesnt make them overpowered thats my OPINION.

Just because you think the flash cannnot vibrate throught people doesnt make it true there are several people who would disagree with. Thats just your OPINION. And that is what this is all about your OPINION and if it is my OPINION that the flash can go through them (though its not because they are not normal people) and there is evidence to support me i.e. inorganic stuff and there is no evidence to disprove me then you cannot say that it is impossible for him to do so as fact only as your OPINION.

EDIT: double post

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
That is your opinion. Until it is proven that Flash can defeat anyone by vibrating through them, don't use the argument. If a character doesn't use a power in any of his comic books, ultimately, he doesn't possess it. Name one character that has a power that he has never used. You can't, of course. If you have a power, it shows up somewhere in one of your comics.

There also has to be a limit to what Flash can cause to explode. If Flash vibrated through a block of solid adamantium, do you think it would explode? Hulk is much more durable than any of the machinery or anything else that Flash has vibrated through. Even if flash could vibrate through Hulk, how do you know he'd explode? He's taken nukes before and walked away.

What many of the Flashes fans need to realize is that speed is not absolute. According to you, this guy should be unbeatable.

It is YOUR opinion that Flash CAN'T defeat someone by vibrating through them. Using the logic you've applied to the subject, Flash needs to have stated in one of his comic books that he is incapable of doing something for him to be truly unable. You say "power" like we're claiming Flash can shoot lasers out of his eyes. Vibrating through someone is not a separate power from the ones Flash possesses. It comes with his speed and his control over his molecules. And why does there have to be a limit to what Flash can make explode? Though I agree that Adamantium probably wouldn't do so, Hulk's body is not made of adamantium, so what does it matter? As for Hulk "taking" nukes, have any of those nukes been inside of him when they went off?

And for the record, I don't have to be a Flash fan to support the guy. He is not unbeatable, and his speed is not absolute. But he is capable of defeating alot of people, like him or not.