War with China

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Unless China blatanly decimates an entire american city. I highly doubt that Bush would directly declare war on China. No one in the american goverment cares about taiwan. Bush needs China in the fued against north Korea.

Reluctantly I must agree.

The US is only using the Taiwan issue, as well as the North
Korean issue, as an excuse to maintain forces in the region,
and occasionally issue tough statements towards China and
North Korea which make Presidents and Secretaries (as
well as Congressmen) feel tough and manly.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Curse manipulative politics. I say if Taiwan wants freedom and Independence then they should get it. One of the most basic political rights is that of self governance, the right for a nation to rule its self. With the US acting in such a silly way about the whole thing I only hope that the Chinese Government at some point decides the right thing to do would be let Taiwan go free if they wish to.

I disagree very strongly.

How many nations have been split up by Western powers over
the past century?

Why can't nations have a right to take back what was tolen from
them? Whether it's China with Taiwan, Iraq with Kuwait, Syria
with Lebanon, or Ethiopia with Eritrea? Why not? Becasue the
West, the same West that cut them off in the first place, says
no?

This isn't a simple matter of irredentism. Often, the very
existence of these splinter nations is a humilliating reminder
of the colonial past.

doesn't China want to impress the world though??

Why can't nations have a right to take back what was tolen from
them? Whether it's China with Taiwan, Iraq with Kuwait, Syria
with Lebanon, or Ethiopia with Eritrea? Why not? Becasue the
West, the same West that cut them off in the first place, says no?

So with your way of argue all the states that have won its independence should actually be brought back to its former state as being under the control by the powers that they gained their independance from .

Yes, well said Finti. And if thats the case I can't wait for England to go back to the U.S and return them to the commonwealth.

Originally posted by finti
Ethiopia with Eritrea huh, Eritrea became a part of Ethiopia or the otherway around when the Italians united the two countries, after the Italians were defeated the Bits controlled the erea untill it came under UN control it became an autonomous area in Ethiopia in 1952 and was annexed into Ethiopia in 1962,fully independent again in 1993.

So with your way of argue all the states that have won its independence should actually be brought back to its former state as being under the control by the powers that they gained their independance from .

Silliness.

Ethiopia is one of the oldest states in the world, including
the oldest (after Nubia) black African nations. Its borders
have always included the Red Sea coast.

Eritrea was a region in that ancient land of Abyssinia (modern
Ethiopia).

These two lands aren't like most sub-Saharan countries,
completely artificial creations of European powers, built
out of split tribal territories. They are ancient lands with
a history.

The same with Iraq and China and Syria. These are among
the oldest areas of civilizations anywhere, and they were
forced to watch areas of their land cut away by Western
powers.

You apparently have a hard time understanging what it is
like for an ancient and proud nation to be cut apart like
a piece of cake, with parts given away to useful allies
(Kuwait being a perfect example).

The British and French, and others, had no right to take
part of Iraq and give it away to a bunch of greedy bedouin
cheiftains named the Kuwaities. They had no right to give
away western Syria to a corrupt traitorous minority, the
Maronite christians (not to mention northern Syria given
away to Turkey, and southern Syria to the pro-British
Hashemite elites). And they certainly had absolutely no
right to give away most of Palestine to European jewish
immigrants who, despite myths of "jewish diasporas", have
zero historical connection to the land.

Look at Vietnam. The French, after their defeat there, rather
than being honorable, admitting defeat, and leaving, instead
decided, with the help of the US, to split the country into
two parts. Thankfully, the true patriotic North rejected such
an arrangement, and fought hard against all odds to eventually
re-unite the country.

I wonder what you would do if your country was invaded,
then half cut off to make another country (especially one
run by puppets loyal to the former occupiers)? According
to you, you would just accept the new nation as perfectly
legitimate? Well, maybe that's acceptable to you, since
your country is not an ancient nation with a long and proud
history like Syria or Iraq or China, but that's not the way
the peoples of those nations see things.

IMO i don't think America can't afford to have a full scale war against China. Were already in enough debt and a major war would bankrupt the nation easily. So i doubt we will or this war would bring down the American economy.

I wonder what you would do if your country was invaded,
then half cut off to make another country (especially one
run by puppets loyal to the former occupiers)?

You apparently have a hard time understanging what it is like for an ancient and proud nation

The British and French, and others, had no right to take
part of Iraq and give it away to a bunch of greedy bedouin
cheiftains named the Kuwaities. They had no right to give
away western Syria to a corrupt traitorous minority, the
Maronite christians (not to mention northern Syria given
away to Turkey, and southern Syria to the pro-British
Hashemite elites). And they certainly had absolutely no
right to give away most of Palestine to European jewish
immigrants who, despite myths of "jewish diasporas", have
zero historical connection to the land.

Well, maybe that's acceptable to you, since
your country is not an ancient nation with a long and proud
history like Syria or Iraq or China, but that's not the way
the peoples of those nations see things.

oh as for the topic I dont think there will be a war between China and USA, dont think the Chinese will invade Taiwan either, the Taiwan armed forces aint no walk in the park opponents

Originally posted by KidRock
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=579320

China looks to be invading taiwan if they declare independence and the US will defend taiwan if they are invaded. Seems like Bush isnt going to be the one to start the next war.

bush should really stay out of it!

and yes this does concern me... as many ofu know I live in "Fuzhou" which is one of the cities nearer to taiwan... the chinese gov, has predicted this war from long ago so check this out,he decided not to put a lot of money in this city since they said it would b one of the first to get invaded by taiwan

so Taiwan would counter their own invasion by invading China?

Originally posted by finti
oh as for the topic I dont think there will be a war between China and USA, dont think the Chinese will invade Taiwan either, the Taiwan armed forces aint no walk in the park opponents

I doubt it too... US might have latest techj and stuff, but china has got many soilders... and they can have a lot of tech too... bioweapons and stuff... wut I am still not sure is y exactly is this happening

bush should really stay out of it!

Originally posted by finti
Now we who live in Europe shall we go back to the map what it looked like under Greek dominance, or like under the Romans, what about under Charlemange rule

You equate relatively recent changes made by a couple
of European powers, to natural changes made over
centuries?

The British conquered those lands, then when they left
cut them up against the wishes of the peoples living
there. Why is this difficult to understand?

It doesn't matter if the current nations of Iraq and
Syria are modern creations, the lands and peoples and
sense of indentity and territory is ancient. The fact that
the British "created" Iraq on some eighty years ago,
doesn't change the fact that the people of that country
realise that this thing called "Kuwait" is a part of their
land, a part of that thing called "mesopotamia" or
"Iraq/Al-Jazeera" (by medieval arabs), and that it was
taken form them, to be given to the Kuwaitie clan.

Syria and Lebanon have always been one, in identity
if not in State borders, until the French came along and
cut off Lebanon to give to the Maronite minority.

If you think that it was the British who gave these peoples
a sense of identity, then you are (as usual) mistaken.
Even back in the early 7rth century, when both lands
were part of the growing arab-muslim Caliphate, there
was a clear sense of the "Shami" (someone of
Greater Syria), and the "Iraqi.

Bottom line: China has every damned right to take
back Taiwan, just as North Vietnam did with the South,
just as Iraq does with Kuwait, Syria with Lebanon,
Ethiopia with Eritrea, and Cyprus with "Northern
Cyprus".

These aren't lost imperial provinces (since you bring up
the Roman and Ottoman Empires), but parts of their
lands.

America is powerful but remember America would the help of many secondary powers to win the war sucessfully without losing so many people. I doubt it will happen though and i even think the craziest conservative dosen't want that to happen either.

It doesn't matter if the current nations of Iraq and
Syria are modern creations, the lands and peoples and
sense of indentity and territory is ancient

Bottom line: China has every damned right to take back Taiwan just as North Vietnam did with the South,
just as Iraq does with Kuwait, Syria with Lebanon,
Ethiopia with Eritrea, and Cyprus with "Northern Cyprus".

Originally posted by finti
so according to your sense of rightfulness every nation that lost territory has a right to take it back regardless of how long it has gone

No.

But when we are talking about teritory that was taken
away form it by a colonial power, and recently so that
the effects ares till there, then absolutely yes!

This splitting and splintering of nations is almost unique
to the modern british and French Empires.

Previous empires would conquer a land, hold it, then
if and when they leave or are expelled, they just go.

But with the damned British and French, they couldn't
just leave. No, they had to leave their former colonies
good-bye "presents", which will cause divisions and
instability, and eventually lead to wars and chaos which
can only be stopped with the intervention of...surpirse,
surprise!, the British and the french and the West in
general. Quite convinient yes?

But with the damned British and French, they couldn't
just leave. No, they had to leave their former colonies
good-bye "presents", which will cause divisions and
instability, and eventually lead to wars and chaos which
can only be stopped with the intervention of...surpirse,
surprise!, the British and the french and the West in
general. Quite convinient yes?

Originally posted by XIA
9/11 was staged, some evidence.
In the 90's the US government made a video where the government (in the movie) flew a plane into the trade center to raise government funds for a war that would eventually help the US control the world. Then, when 9/11 happened, the government mysteriously took the movies off shelves. (It was called the last kiss goodnight). A coincidence? maybe, but if so, why would the government ban the movie unless they had somthing to hide? Just a thought.

Info found at www.infowars.com

😕

because if people saw the video which is purely coincidence, they would probably think 9/11 and the tape were related because they believe anything.

I call these people 'Deanos'

😆