Originally posted by BackFireI agree. It's a silly request.
Thoughts - Get over it.
Originally posted by fintiUmm...where did you get this from exactly?
and other places who got this religion forced down uppon them.
During the Spanish rule, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together. There was no forced conversion. In fact, from what I know, "forced conversions" are forbidden in Islam.
Also if you know about the Mughal rule in India, the majority were Hindus and were allowed to practice their religion freely.
Forced conversion is what the crusades were about...
one of the reasons i am against the church in general. It waged a war for a land that was not theirs and its current status has been determined by the atrocities it had done in its history including the inquisition 'Dark Ages'. The church had acted imposingly, and a lot of land had been shamelessly stolen.
I do believe in God but not the church that owes the credentials its so much respected for, to its 'History' of wars and reclamation of common land
Umm...where did you get this from exactly?most religions expand through forced expansions, its not like oh ok lets just switch from what we used to believe to the new stuff. Christianity is the worst in the class here though.
Originally posted by finti
most religions expand through forced expansions, its not like oh ok lets just switch from what we used to believe to the new stuff. Christianity is the worst in the class here though.
Bottom line, rulers wanted to expand their land more than they wanted to expand the word of a religion, but with their expansion followed a religion thus the forced upon them part.
Pretty much all religions (with the exception of few, I think) were an issue in an explanation. Even the Ancients. Christianity and Islam are no different.
One thing is for sure (ok, nothing is for sure in reality but bare with me) Pope Urban II expanded 'The Truce of God' outlawing the fighting from certain days (i forget which), outlawing the fighting against monks, women and children in the War that was to do with Christians at the time (French had blood fudes, so did English), NOTHING to do with the conversion. Italy for example was at the time a collection of states, if i remember, being constantly overrun by random hordes, etc..
When the Byzantine empire started to spread, and when turks started to invade and rip Alexus' I Empire, he wrote to Pope Urban II telling him about supposed horrid acts Turks did against Christian Pilgrims and asked for help - and he got more help than he wanted. He got help from all over the place, and THUS Pope Urban II saw this as a moral thing (how can anyone consider anything to do with war moral is beyond me) to call it a Holy crusade, as the Turkish invasion, instead of being seen as an invasion for what it was - was seen as a direct attack on Christianity since Turks were commiting these horrible acts against Christians in Jerusalem - he called upon people making these super fancy speaches to reclaim the holy lands from the Muslims.
Again, its all about the land, before anything else. The crusades was little similar to Israel and Palestine - its about having control over holy land.
^^ that is how the crusades started, it was nothing to do with the direct spread of Christianity (read people, read!!) because, as I already mentioned above, all the main countries England, France and Italy had bloodshed and wars within their own lands - Italy has hordes randomly passing through, France has a royal blood feud...etc. (I forget what was wrong with England 😮)
Again, I dont think this has much to do with ''Muslims'' per se, but with Turks. I dont get why the Muslims as general want an apology.
An apology would make everything all better and expunge any past wrongdoings.
Not.
You dont apologize for something so heinous, an apology is meaningless and insulting in instances such as these.
You learn from it and ensure that it never happens again, that would be more justly and right than a meaningless apology.
that is how the crusades started, it was nothing to do with the direct spread of Christianitywho said anything about the crusades being a means to spread christianity? After all the crusades was to take back the region that was the origin of the christian faith
Since it was my post you quoted let me ask you this: Do you think christianity spread around Europe through missonary work or do you think the rulers of the various states/regions who submitteed to the christian faith deceided that what they believed the people should believe as well?
The way I see it -
It's human nature to make war on each other so what this Muslim person is requesting is that the Pope apologise for being human the very same heinious crime that he himself is guilty of... 🙄
Yah right! 😑
Humans in general, have always (and still do) wanted more than they already have. We also have this built in desire to want to make others toe the line to our personal way of thinking. Which is probably why we go to war in the first place. For example...
Emperor Whatsisname of MyLandIsNotEnough looks over the border of his great land to the lush green land of his neighbour 'Mmmm I fancy a bit of that, also I dont like the fact that my people are the only ones hopping on one leg for 20 minutes every morning to make the sun rise! My army is greater than theirs so I think I'll go over there and knock a few facts into those heathens.' he makes a little note in his diaryTuesday 22nd March - Invade and educate WhatIWantLand... 'They also seem to have more goldmines than we do too.' he thinks to him self as an after thought...
So off he toddles to wage war.
Sound strangley familiar to some current existing world situations?
Three thousand years?!
Its way to far back however it reminds of that every religion had a violent past. Christianity has a very bloody past and so was Islam and Hinduism and Sikhism. They are peaceful religion but you know how people were about religion back then. If they felt threatened you better watch out. blowup
giljotiini
hang
horse
rifle
sniper
tank