Bullsh!t Vs Lying: The Truth Will Out?

Started by BackFire2 pages

There ARE absolute truths.

I am alive at the time I wrote this. That is an absolute truth, I wouldn't have been able to write it if this werent' factually true. Also, if you're reading this, you are also alive.

Also, to stay on topic and answer the original question of this thread. I agree with the definition of Bullshit that was stated in the original post. It does differentiate itself from lying because one is conciously telling a falsehood, and one is saying something that is wrong, while thinking it's right.

I think everyone bullshits from time to time, it's when you get someone who does it constantly that you have a problem. It's also a severe problem when he's so good at bullshitting that he can get other people to follow his bullshit, and make a great big bullshit regime. A'la hiter.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Those are all observations. The sky is not always blue, and again that is only an observation - colour-blind person doesnt see the same blue.

In the 19th century it was ''scientifically true'' that black people are inferiour to white people. It was called a ''fact'' and it was then accepted as the truth.
However, today such truth does not apply any longer. Nothing is an absolute truth.
Since you have never met me, you dont know who it is that you claim is alive - there maybe more of us under the name of lil bitchiness. Of course they are subjective.

Those were not all observations, even so, an observation cannot be true?

True, black people were looked as, as scientifically inferior. However, this was an ignorant opinion. Many lies people unknowingly tell are ignorant opinions or rumors. Many conversations spawned in KMC have been thought to be entirely true, but were nothing more than opinions or ignorant carried rumors. Word of mouth, and power has inlfuence to inspire a false truth. Just as the supposed inferiority of black people in the past.

Blue is just a word, but it is a word to be indetified with for description of color. This accepted word to describe the color Blue is a truth because we all accept it as a description, there is no subjectivity there, there is also no opinion. Though the color Blue may be percieved differently by people, it is still identified with everyone. Me telling a Color blind person that the sky is presently Blue is not a lie. That same color blind person telling me that he does not see a blue sky is not a lie either.

I have indeed never met you.I have however, shared posts alongside you on this forum. There is a possibility that someone else is talking to me under your name of lil bitchiness. I do however, recognize you from your profile and date registered. Me claiming that you are alive has nothing to do with anyone else. I am referring directly to you from your posts. You posting and participating tells me that you are alive. Unless your a vampire, which in that case i would totally be contradicted and then have to shoot myself knowing that Vampires exist. 😕

Originally posted by BackFire
There ARE absolute truths.

I am alive at the time I wrote this. That is an absolute truth, I wouldn't have been able to write it if this werent' factually true. Also, if you're reading this, you are also alive.

^Yup, you're alive and I'm a witness that your wrote that post. That certifies that you do exist. So your absolute truth has been proven correct.

Quite simple when you don't think it over and over.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Those were not all observations, even so, an observation cannot be true?

True, black people were looked as, as scientifically inferior. However, this was an ignorant opinion. Many lies people unknowingly tell are ignorant opinions or rumors. Many conversations spawned in KMC have been thought to be entirely true, but were nothing more than opinions or ignorant carried rumors. Word of mouth, and power has inlfuence to inspire a false truth. Just as the supposed inferiority of black people in the past.

Blue is just a word, but it is a word to be indetified with for description of color. This accepted word to describe the color Blue is a truth because we all accept it as a description, there is no subjectivity there, there is also no opinion. Though the color Blue may be percieved differently by people, it is still identified with everyone. Me telling a Color blind person that the sky is presently Blue is not a lie. That same color blind person telling me that he does not see a blue sky is not a lie either.

I have indeed never met you.I have however, shared posts alongside you on this forum. There is a possibility that someone else is talking to me under your name of lil bitchiness. I do however, recognize you from your profile and date registered. Me claiming that you are alive has nothing to do with anyone else. I am referring directly to you from your posts. You posting and participating tells me that you are alive. Unless your a vampire, which in that case i would totally be contradicted and then have to shoot myself knowing that Vampires exist. 😕

Ok, this is my view and belief and it is that there is no such thing as an absolute truth - there are certain observations that are established as truths and thought to us - this is because such ''thruths'' existed way before we were born and they will exist after we are born.

The example of this is religion. You cannot prove the existence of god and i cannot disprove it to you, and thus such thing is based on sole thing one calls a ''truth''

My truth may not match your truth, but it doesnt necessarily make it a lie either.

In the ancient times, it is believed that Gods made rain - this was the truth at the time, and anyone that had said different as considered ignorant, because THAT was an established truth at the time. A lie was anything that was suggested to be different.

We now have set of truths, which i can almost guarantee will not be the same in 200 years time. 300 years ago such thing as ''man flying'' and ''recording sound'' were deamed as impossible and thus anyone who suggested differently was ''mad'' and ultimately ''lying''

Your truth - what you find as a fact are someone else's observations accepted as ''truth'' and fed to you - some accept it, some dont.

As I mentioned before, just because you cannot see or observe something it does not mean it isnt there - and take high pitch sounds as an example. Does it mean that if we couldnt observe high pitch sounds, they wouldnt exist? No, the dogs could still hear it, but such thing as ''sound that cannot be heard by humans'' 300 years ago was not a truth but a lie.

The fact that you see and believe certain thing at this point in time, might be your truth, but it certainly doesnt match everyone else's. If it did match everyone else's, we would never progress. Everything is subjective, because everything can and everything does change - and it has, if you go back all the way to beginning.

The fact that you ''know'' that I am alive by my posts is utterly ridiculous. You know that there is someone typing this, but you have no idea who it is, or how many of us there are - my persona online cannot tell you wether im alive or not. Person who wrote under the username of lil bitchiness in sept 2003 might be complitely different to the one thats here now, and you dont know if that person is dead or alive.

I am not a hypocrite at that, because all I said and all I believe is subjective and I am willing to embrace new and other possibilities - the one that deam to fit my idea of truth.

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

thank you, that is all 😮

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Ok, this is my view and belief and it is that there is no such thing as an absolute truth - there are certain observations that are established as truths and thought to us - this is because such ''thruths'' existed way before we were born and they will exist after we are born.

My truth may not match your truth, but it doesnt necessarily make it a lie either.

You are so very right about natural truths. I do agree with you that there is truth that is subjective, but i believe is only this way because we make it that way. Take away our superficial and opinionated characteristics. Infact take us as humans out of the picture and leave behind everything else. There is only truth. We make things complex and give various meanings to a single explanation. Maybe it isnt truth that is subjective, but only humanity. Like life, truth does change. Not only because we learn, and change perceptions on life, but also simply because things change.

Your right about truth being different for everyone, but why is that. Isnt there ultimately a right and wrong, if so wouldnt there be an ultimate truth and lie?

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Manipulation is lying. you are distorting facts to withold somthing or gain a reaction.

Manipulation is lying!?!?! What are you talking about!?! Manipulation can simply mean using certain truths to substantiate your argument, whilst ignoring others. This most definitely is not the same as lying. It is simply the technique of being subjective to further ulterior gains. Just ask Iago...

I'd happily class deliberate withholding of information to change a point as lying.

And Lil, you seem to be confusing the ability to get things right with the ability to see the truth. Just because plenty of people are wrong about what the truth is, that does not in any way stop there being an objective truth there to be discovered, no matter how many people are wrong along the way. People's opinions are fallible- the actual truth is not.

I am very much a believer in objectivity in most things, from truth to morality.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I'd happily class deliberate withholding of information to change a point as lying

People's opinions are fallible- the actual truth is not.

Therefore, you are acknowledging that your classification is not able to be substantiated, rendering it worthless.

I totally disagree witht your understanding of 'lying'. The whole reason Frankfurt has made a study on 'bullshit' specifically, is because there is a difference between manipulation - a form of bullshitting? - and lying.