What if Qui-Gon didn't die?

Originally posted by mtryder
I'll repost an old post of mine for this, as I think it's extremely applicable. Had Qui-Gon trained Anakin, I fully believe that Anakin would have fulfilled his destiny as the Chosen One without ever falling to the dark side:

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Interesting theory, but I don't think he was a Sith. Rather, I think he may have been much as Dooku said he was. Had he lived, I could definitely see him joining the separatists. And this is what I don't like about Lucas' concept of the force, really.
From all appearances, Lucas got his idea of the Force from Taoism. The way he's represented it, the Yin is "light" and the Yang is "dark". That's not how it should have happened. Striving for enlightenment, harmony, and peace should have been light, and striving to manipulate and conquer should have been dark. That said, to be enlightened, and live in harmony and peace, it is not required that someone abide by the rules that the Jedi order set down. It is possible- someone like, say, Walt Whitman would say *only* possible- to attain the balance and harmony through understanding and living within your own emotions.

Thats where I think Qui Gon was, in spite of the Jedi Order telling him it was wrong, and it's the state of mind that I think Anakin tried to find. The reason that he fell to the Dark Side was because he felt such intense emotion, yet he was taught on one hand (Palpatine) to embrace it and use it as a force to strike down the Order, and on the other hand (the Council) he was taught to ignore it entirely. Anakin wanted to be good, and would have been good, if not for the gross negligence of the Jedi Order. My theory, therefore, is that had Qui-Gon lived to tutor Anakin, he would never have fallen to the Dark Side. Qui-Gon would have taught Anakin the truths that the Order, for some reason, denied- that fear and love can be embraced for the ultimate good. Anakin's fall is as much at the hands of the Order as it is at the hands of Palpatine. The only difference is that one does it unwittingly.

And this, in my opinion, is why Darth Maul seems so intent on killing Qui-Gon specifically in Episode I. I bet Sidious knows that if he can eliminate the only 'romantic' (in the philosophical sense) in the Jedi Order, Anakin will have nobody left to turn to with his emotions but him. Qui Gon is, basically, Anakin had Anakin found a way to reconcile his emotions with the Order's teachings.

Interesting theory. I agree with most, however, I'm not entirely certain the rules set by the order are flawed. You say Qui-Gon could have instructed Anakin in a way which would allow him to embrace the two most dangerous emotions without falling to the Dark Side which is an interesting concept, but I'm wondering if you are underestimating the dark side's power. When I think of the dark side I think of it as a highly addicting. Every time you use it you get a feeling of invincibilty. Everything is weaker and you are superior (Anakin's tusken camp adventure). I'm not sure even Qui-Gon would have agreed with Anakin's marriage. And i'm not sure of Qui-Gon's past but i'm certain he didn't have the same turmoil Anakin had in his youth. No father, a slave, told that he's the saviour of the universe, being brought into the order at a late age..etc...

Qui-Gon was not on the dark side. There's a lot of stuff that that you'll find out soon, but he definately wasn't. I'm sure Anakin would've fufilled his destiny some other way.

Here's how Anakin's downfall happened:

Ep 1, Celebration.

Anakin: Obi-Wan, I miss my mum.
Obi-Wan: Moan, moan, moan...look, attachment is forbidden, I had to live with it, so do you.
Anakin: Can we at least talk about it?
Obi-Wan: No. It will remind you of your attachment...I'm going to read the Jedi's handbook...(Obi walks off. Palpatine arrives)
Palpatine: Anakin...do you wanna talk about your mother to me?
Anakin: Sure.

THE FRIENDSHIP IS FORMED.

This is what wouldve happened if Qui-Gon had lived.

Anakin: Qui-Gon, I miss my mother.
Qui-Gon: I know Anakin. Look, I'll promise you something, whenever we have time, I will take you to visit her.
Anakin: Maybe free her?
Qui-Gon: Maybe, I've conned Watto once and I can con him again.
Anakin: Great.
(Palpatine arrives)
Palpatine: Anakin, do you wanna talk about your mother to me?
Anakin: No.

Anakin would've been saved.

Originally posted by jengafett
Qui-Gon was not on the dark side. There's a lot of stuff that that you'll find out soon, but he definately wasn't. I'm sure Anakin would've fufilled his destiny some other way.

Here's how Anakin's downfall happened:

Ep 1, Celebration.

Anakin: Obi-Wan, I miss my mum.
Obi-Wan: Moan, moan, moan...look, attachment is forbidden, I had to live with it, so do you.
Anakin: Can we at least talk about it?
Obi-Wan: No. It will remind you of your attachment...I'm going to read the Jedi's handbook...(Obi walks off. Palpatine arrives)
Palpatine: Anakin...do you wanna talk about your mother to me?
Anakin: Sure.

THE FRIENDSHIP IS FORMED.

This is what wouldve happened if Qui-Gon had lived.

Anakin: Qui-Gon, I miss my mother.
Qui-Gon: I know Anakin. Look, I'll promise you something, whenever we have time, I will take you to visit her.
Anakin: Maybe free her?
Qui-Gon: Maybe, I've conned Watto once and I can con him again.
Anakin: Great.
(Palpatine arrives)
Palpatine: Anakin, do you wanna talk about your mother to me?
Anakin: No.

Anakin would've been saved.

Funny... lol...

mtryder had excellent points, though. The Jedi Order in general failed by not properly addressing Anakin's obvious differences and needs.

The rule that there can be only two Siths can still apply in Ep. 1 if Maul doesn't truly become a Sith until the death of Qui-Gon.

What about the fact Qui-Gon didn't disappear?? Then he was burned.. just like Vader.

I know this is unpopular about Qui-Gon dabbling with the dark side. But what if Qui-Gon's knowledge of the Force was so great, that he already knew Anakin was the Chosen One. Chosen to bring balance to the force, BUT, only after the Chosen One went to the Dark Side. Could Qui-Gon have known Anakin would see the 'Light' only after being in the 'Dark'

Like the novel indicates.. QG was quite possibly the strongest user and most knowledgeable of the Force, therefore, he would have known Anakin would go to the dark side only to bring balance in the end, by coming back to the light.

Unpoplular.. this theory AND QG's methods were, that's for sure, but I still don't think this is too far out there, especially since he didn't disappear. QG had a plan, that was to get Anakin into the Jedi program at whatever cost, and that was letting his own life go, forcing Obi-Wan to promise to teach Anakin.

Qui Gon didn't die. He's walking around in many scenes. Look closer.

Pfft.... Give it up.

Eagleye:

Whether or not a Jedi disappears has nothing to do with light or dark. Go back and watch AOTC, and you'll see a whole boatload of Jedi dying and not disappearing. Were every one of them evil? No. That discrepency will be answered in Episode III, trust me.

Bringing balance to the force as an act never required Anakin to fall to the darkside. He could have fulfilled his destiny had he done Mace's bidding.

Jengafett's post really nails it. I'm not saying that Qui-Gon's teachings would definitely have saved Anakin, but it certainly couldn't have hurt. Qui-Gon may not have looked favorably upon the marriage, but it may have been that Anakin wouldn't have felt so cornered that marriage was required to begin with. Had Qui-Gon taught Anakin, things would most definitely have ended differently with Shmi--either Qui-Gon would have brought Anakin to save her, or he would have helped Anakin deal with his emotions before they boiled over.

Obi-Wan himself compares Anakin to Qui-Gon at some point (anyone remember where? I'm spacing), and that is key. Anakin had more capacity to love than hate-it was his love for Padme that caused him to take most of the major steps down the Dark path- yet the Jedi Order never realized the true benevolence of such emotions.

The theory that Qui-gon was in any way associated with the Sith is rediculous. Yes it is true that he wasen't the traditional thinking Jedi that say Yoda is, but that certainly doesn't mean that he is a Sith. Look at Windu. He is probably the closest Jedi to the Dark side that there is, with his radical thoughts and his Vapaad style that is basically dancing on the dark side anyway, and he's ON the council. Just because you lean more towards the dark side then yoda, certainly doesn't make you a Sith. Qui-gon was a pure Jedi.

Secondly, if Qui-gon did train Anakin, I truly believe he would not have turned to the dark side. I believe Anakin being forbidden to free his mother started it all off. Qui-gon would most certainly have let Anakin take leave to free his mother, and he probably would even have helped him do it. Anakin was right in AOTC when he says obi wan is holding him back. He was, and it is the reason Anakin was looking for another path. Qui-gon would have been able to curtail Anakin's anger in a more positive direction.

It's like this. When parents tell children they can't do something, and the kid asks why, there are two ways to explain it. 1) Because I say so 2) actually take the time to explain in a way they can understand.

Obi wan is like the "because I say so" type of teacher, which clearly doesn't work with Anakin. Although I love Obi wan, I think he was probably one of the worst choices for Anakin's master.

Originally posted by Protector
I think Qui Gon was really a Sith all a long but he died before it could be revealed

Originally posted by jengafett
Qui-Gon was not on the dark side. There's a lot of stuff that that you'll find out soon, but he definately wasn't. I'm sure Anakin would've fufilled his destiny some other way.

Here's how Anakin's downfall happened:

Ep 1, Celebration.

Anakin: Obi-Wan, I miss my mum.
Obi-Wan: Moan, moan, moan...look, attachment is forbidden, I had to live with it, so do you.
Anakin: Can we at least talk about it?
Obi-Wan: No. It will remind you of your attachment...I'm going to read the Jedi's handbook...(Obi walks off. Palpatine arrives)
Palpatine: Anakin...do you wanna talk about your mother to me?
Anakin: Sure.

THE FRIENDSHIP IS FORMED.

This is what wouldve happened if Qui-Gon had lived.

Anakin: Qui-Gon, I miss my mother.
Qui-Gon: I know Anakin. Look, I'll promise you something, whenever we have time, I will take you to visit her.
Anakin: Maybe free her?
Qui-Gon: Maybe, I've conned Watto once and I can con him again.
Anakin: Great.
(Palpatine arrives)
Palpatine: Anakin, do you wanna talk about your mother to me?
Anakin: No.

Anakin would've been saved.

Coudn't say it better
Anikin needed a good teacher, someone that believed in him. Qui Gon would have used every fiber in his being to see that Anikin turned out right and would have never turned his back on him. And since the council would not have let Anikin been trained without Qui Gon dying, Qui Gon would have certainly trained him himself, leaving no room for the council's legalism but rather Qui Gon's teaching to open yourself to the force fully.
About Qui Gon being a sith, that is just rediculous, there is no way Lucas intended Qui Gon to be a SIth!!! Why is Qui Gon trying to yell at Anikin through the force "Anikin stop!" when Anikin is killing tuskens? There is no way he was a sith, that is just silly, sorry.

Qui Gon is not a sith if you dont mind a spoiler then highlight this....

Spoiler:
Qui Gon came through in Episode 3 to Yoda and Yoda became Qui-Gons apprentice Yoda wouldnt have bowed down to a sith...OKAY!

You have to remember about the adventures of Qui-Gonn and Obi1 before EP1...Tahl, the woman Qui Gonn loves dies, Obi1 is annoyed because Qui Gonn won't confide in him...blah, blah, blah...

Originally posted by darth nihilias
i would inforce your belief, qui gon was a much more radical jedi than the others and would of joined dooku very quickly. 💃 💃 👽 🤨 😖hifty: 😖mart: 🥷

Originally posted by Otaku_Sith
But then again Anakin himself is a radical jedi

I think that what we're gonna find in ROTS is that the Jedi will realise that Qui Gon was right to act the way he did, and that they were wrong, stuck in their old ways and failed to see, as Qui Gon did, that they needed to change

Which is why Yoda tells Obi Wan he has training for him in his solitude, from his new master and Obi Wan's old one (ie Qui Gon)

So no. I don't belive Anakin will have turned if Qui Gon taught him. The Jedi failed in raising Anakin. Yoda realises this and learns to change his ways from Qui Gon.

Originally posted by Protector
He didn't kill Obi Wan because he wanted to turn him to the dark side with Anankin. And the reason he tried to kill Darth Maul is because they hated each other.

this whole idea of Jinn being a sith is a insult to the legacy of star wars. im a huge fan of kenobi's but ill admit that his teaching methods were a huge mistake for anakin. and if jinn would of trained anakin i doubt that anakin would of become vader, however it is possible. anyone who beieve this crazy theory of jinn being a sith is a disgrace.

Qui Gon being a Sith.. how stupid. I remember people saying that Qui Gon was Sifo Dyas; most of the information you can get is from the novels..people who don't read them shouldn't make stupid assumptions.

Well actually we're stuck with Vader,which is not a bad thing,because of Qui Gon died,basically.

I'm no expert on this kind of stuff, but I like to put in my bit on things. Anakin wasn't even supposed to be a Jedi to begin with, correct? I mean, wasn't he both too old and too young to be a Jedi? He started too late but didn't develop his sensitivity to the Force fast enough? I believe Qui-Gonn would have done a much better job than Obi-Wan just out of experience. Anakin was vulnerable to the Dark Side with Obi-Wan purely out of the fact that Obi-Wan "held him back." Qui-Gonn should have been able to change that. You don't have to agree, but that's just my two cents in this matter.

Damn this is a pretty good post. One of the reaosn why I loved Qui-Gon was that he thought with his heart. He cared not for the traditional and by the books way of the Jedi Councel. He knew right from wrong and he acted on that. He could feel the presence and power from Anakin as a child. Anakin's falling to the dark side was most like from malnuturing. He was special and not dealt with properly. He need someone with a true understanding of the living force (QUI-GON). Obi-Wan did what he could but he was still so much a child when he began training Ani. One day he is a padawan, next day he has one. Not his fault, he too was following what he thought was right, and no one could be blamed for that. He just wasn't ready for Anakin. I don't think Qui-Gon would have ever turned to the dark side. I think the reason he didn't dissapear is because he had not yet become one with the force, so he could not return to it. Maybe? If Qui-Gon would have survive the duel of the fates, I think Obi-Wan would have went forward to become a great Jedi Knight (as qui-gon has forseen) and probably joined the council, Anakin would have been trained properly by a seasoned Pro (wasn't Qui-Gon like 60? come one that's EXP like woah) that's not to say he would not have turned, if it was his destiny to turn, nothing could stop that from occuring, countless events could have led to it. but it may have been prevented. However Sidious would have just found someone else to exploit. If Qui-Gon would have lived, He would have served count dooku, that's a fact, so the Palpatine would have had to find a new sucker. That's my 7 in the am 2 cents.

Originally posted by Morridini
Some friends of mine and I was having a discussion on what would have happened if Qui-Gon hadn't died and would have trained Anakin, instead of Obi training him. My friends seemed to think that if Qui-Gon had trained him that Anakin would not have fallen to the Dark Side. But there I think they are wrong, I actually think that with Qui-Gon as his master Anakin could have turned to the Dark Side faster. I think this since I got the impression that Qui-Gon is a very radical Jedi compared to the rest, and I wouldn't think it too unlikely that he would have joined Dooku if he had gotten the chance. As Dooku told Obi in AotC. Does anyone want to back up my thought, or perhaps my friends thought?