was I ? will you ever know? dance on yellow terminator 💃
I liked t3, people expect to much, my dad told me when esb of the star wars films came out, people hated it, much for the same reasons thus a negative anti climax ending, but if ya smart ya see more, as if they wont make t4?
but anyway, t2 is my fave all time movie, NOTHING will live upto it, everyone knows that so why expect so much?
just accept it, I think Arnie did it for more then the 60 million he got for it so bear with them.
now lets all dance 💃 💃 💃 💃 💃
T3 was pretty good despite some errors. The story does fit in with the other movies, but its not even half as good as T2 and T1.
Its great finally see the original (Reese remembered) point of Judgment Day. (the 1997 one was created by the first Terminator and deleted by the destruction of Cyberdyne)
I do think the Terminators don't act a lot like Terminators should, Connors age is messed up and the T-X doesn't look as lethal as T-1000, but still good stuff
Well, if you compare it with the other movies, the terminators seem almost human in their behaviour. I mean, why does the T-X say "I like this car, or I like your gun". A Terminator, as presented in the original film, is an unstoppable killing machine. TX doesn't need to say it, so I expect she just drags the lady of of the car without mentioning she 'likes' it. Thats what I like about T-1000. He only ever says something if he needs information, and kills without hesitation.
T-800 same thing. the "relax!" thing, "Talk to the hand"?? In the first film, he stole a couple of guns, kills the guy, and now just walks out and says that?? I dont know what the writers had in mind there.
But you're forgetting something. The T-800 of T2 was also very big with humour aswell - erm, "Hasta la vista, baby" anyone? And I seem to remember the T-1000 saying "Hey, nice car" to a police officer...
Thematically and stylistically, I will admit that T1 and T3 are very different. But T2 and T3? Much more similar...
The T-1000 actually said "Say, that's a nice bike"...
Again Ahnold, you've made a valid opinion being a fan of all three Terminator movies ("But T2 and T3? Much more similar..."😉 However, as always, I kinda disagree with what you've said.
I think the main problem fans of T2 have with T3 is that the humour in T2 actually worked, without Arnie saying a single word at times! Scenes like when they're in the desert with Enrique and Terminator picks up the baby to study it. The Terminator is fascinated with this baby because to it, the baby is a strange "being". This is funny but Terminator is simply making an observation - but in a humorous way to the audience.
Then towards the end of the film when Terminator crashes the SWAT van and they're all getting out of it we have a serious/comical moment. As they're getting out an onlooker says: "You hurt?" Terminator gives the guy a mean look, with half it's face ripped apart with bullets. Course it's hurt but it can't feel the pain a human would, although Terminator can "sense injuries" and "the data could be called pain".
Cameron just directed Arnie in such a magnificent way and got the best out of an actor that is sometimes described as being "mediocre". Mostow did not, which was his undoing.
"Hasta la vista baby" compared to "talk to the hand"? Sorry, no comparison. After Terminator said "hasta la vista baby" he blew the T-1000 apart with a single bullet. After Terminator said "talk to the hand", he walks out of the shop with his shopping. Sorry, the second scenario can in no way be compared to "hasta la vista baby". Why? Because Terminator has lost his edge, that mean streak, the simple fact that it is one mean mother that will terminate your ass if you don't comply with it (e.g. "I need your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle"😉.
To me, personally, the performance Arnie put in as Terminator in T2 looked like the performance of a guy in his acting prime. The performance Arnie put in as Terminator in T3 looked like the performance of a guy who knew he was getting paid sh!t loads of money for a movie that was probably going to be his last (i.e. he didn't care how things went down just as long as he got paid).
Again, everything I have stated above is just opinion, and I’m just a guy and what I’ve said could be wrong. But that's my reaction to you thinking T2 and T3 are similar. Sorry, they are not. T2 is a cinematic masterpiece; T3 is a watered downed version of T2 made for 12 year olds and above.
U Neek
All good points, U. Of course, I'm gonna have to disagree with them 😄
Firstly, I'm not gonna deny that the humour in T2 was better, cos it was. I'll also agree that, while I believe Arnie did a great job in T3, he did not excel in the same way that he did in T1 and T2 {probably more Mostow's fault rather than Arnie's}. As for him losing his edge? Tell me -in a film where the world gets blown up at the end, does Arnie's performance really take off THAT much of an edge?
And about the humour - so you believe that actions speak louder than words? Then tell me you didn't laugh when he wore those Elton John sunglasses. Tell me you didn't laugh when he addressed the male stripper's to his hand. Can you honsetly say that to me?
But c'mon, let's not foget the more serious moments too. Remember Arnie turned evil? I thought that his battle with his programming was an excellent display of acting flair.
And finally, as I've said numerous times, I don't feel T3 is the masterpiece that T2 was. BUT - it's still a great film in its own right. The problem is that the humour tends to distract people from the bigger issues such as, oh, the end of the world. If T3 is to be judged, at least let it be for merits we can all agree on!
Comments appreciated
Originally posted by Ahnold
And about the humour - so you believe that actions speak louder than words? Then tell me you didn't laugh when he wore those Elton John sunglasses. Tell me you didn't laugh when he addressed the male stripper's to his hand. Can you honsetly say that to me?
First of all Ahnold, you do not know me as an individual. You do not know my likes or dislikes. So just because you found something funny, obviously it does not mean I, or others for that fact, will find what you found to be funny. Honestly, hand on heart, those two scenes [where "actions speak louder then words"] that you picked where probably some of the worst from T3 you could have picked to justify your argument. There is a huge difference from being funny and trying to be funny.
Elton John sunglasses? Please, if I wanted to watch a clown I'd watch an episode of the Simpson's where Krusty the Klown features. That scene was so poor it should have been a deleted scene. To me it was a mockery of everything a Terminator stands for. The scene where Terminator grabs the male stripper's hand? Not funny - that scene was good. This scene to me was the essence of a Terminator movie, but I did not find it funny. I liked it, but as for laughing when it happened? Sorry I did not.
Originally posted by Ahnold
As for him losing his edge? Tell me -in a film where the world gets blown up at the end, does Arnie's performance really take off THAT much of an edge?
Arnie losing his edge? Again you have taken what I said and misinterpreted it. I said Terminator, as a character, has lost its edge. All I said about Arnie was that in T3 his acting looked like the acting of a guy who just wanted the movie to end as quickly as possible so he could go spend his $30 mill. Arnie portraying the Terminator that has lost its "edge" only plays a small part in the downfall of the legendary Terminator. Terminator losing its edge is mainly down to the writers who wrote any sh!t and turned the character into a joke. The writers write a scene, Mostow [poorly] directs Arnie to do the scene, and "some" loyal fans that spent hard earned bucks to watch the movie are left disappointed.
Originally posted by Ahnold
BUT - it's still a great film in its own right. The problem is that the humour tends to distract people from the bigger issues such as, oh, the end of the world.
No, this is wrong (only as I see it, I am not speaking for others). Humour should not distract people from bigger issues such as the end of the world. Not for once did any of the humour in T2 distract me from the thought that the T-1000 might kill JC and that JD may actually be the end of the world. On numerous occasions in T3 I did not give a flying f*ck if the T-X actually terminated JC's ass. Even when the bombs dropped at the end I was like: "Is that it? That's what the end of the world looks like?" James Cameron and Stan Winston illustrated a much better portrayal of the world ending in T2.
Originally posted by Ahnold
But c'mon, let's not foget the more serious moments too. Remember Arnie turned evil? I thought that his battle with his programming was an excellent display of acting flair.
Please, don't get me started on Arnie "battling" with Terminator's programming after the T-X re-programmed him. OK, Arnie acted the scene with flair (your words, not mine) but that whole scene disgusted me. After being reprogrammed, surely the T-X would have Terminator reprogrammed so it cannot say: "Get away from me. Leave…T-X has corrupted my system film…" I'm happy for you that you liked that scene. For me, it was a poor "twist" that the writers threw into the movie for the audience (such as yourself) to see Arnie revert back to his status in the first Terminator.
Originally posted by Ahnold
If T3 is to be judged, at least let it be for merits we can all agree on!
Erm, shall we judge one of its merits as being the part where the end credits role? Personally I consider it an insult to my backside that I forced it to sit on an uncomfortable cinema seat to watch an hour and 46 minutes of that sh!te.
U Neek
Listen U - this debate has exposed, if nothing else, that none of us are ever likely to change our minds about T3. Clearly, you thought it was crap, and I thought it was great. Perhaps we should just learn to agree to disagree instead of going round in circles?
To answer individual points:
Firstly, about the two "funny" scenes in question - I do not claim to be so arrogant as to know your likes and dislikes! I'm merely saying that the general consensus is that those scenes were funny. Were they in the spirit of the series? Did they go too far in terms of the humour? These points are open to debate. Again, I say no, but you clearly say yes. But lemme ask you this - after all the parodies made about Arnold and the Terminator from T2 over the years, do you not think it was easier to accept a "comedy" character than a serious one? The humour is what I found most appealing about the T-800... again you probably don't agree.
Secondly, it baffles me to hear you refer to the faults of Mostow and Arnie. If the way the Terminator acts is what is bothering you, then surely you should place the blame squarely on the writers. In your eyes, could "talk to the hand" have been any funnier with different direction? Or if Arnie had not done it in the deadpan he is best at? Well?
Thirdly, you misunderstood my point about "distracting" humour. I meant that people cite the humour most often as the failing of T3... no one has ever said "the ending is crap!" to me. But you've raised an interesting point. Why did you believe that the ending was rushed, as you put it?
Fourthly, I don't agree about the reversion to the Terminator being evil was a "poor twist". I feel that this scene shows that the T-800 is indeed more than the sum of his programming - it's as if he almost has a soul that prvents him from doing wrong in his duty as a protector...
But to each his own...
The T3 script that went through the editing room summed up how I felt about the T3 movie in general. Check it out:
http://ter.air0day.com/index.php?script=terminator3
If it works that is.
Oh c'mon! That guy - Rod Hilton - is cynical about everything! He even made fun of ET! Lemme say that gain - ET. That's right - the sweet spielberg film that everyone is moved by at least once!
I'll admit, the guy has some points - but he's trying too hard! Too many lame digs at "Arnold The Governor" and stuff. That guy has a tendency to just glaze over all the actual GOOD bits...