Originally posted by Draco69Was this fight w/WW w/prep? Does he always have 'em in his gloves?
His gadgets aren't just in his belt. It's everywhere. Batman had sonic grenades in his gloves and stunned Wonder Woman.
Originally posted by SuperherovandalYes. That's when Bats pretty much yielded. But I thought the point of you and Draco was that crossovers don't count. I agreed.
i thought they met in the crossover. Although they are bull didn't they meet in there?
Originally posted by brainchild81
Right. And I'm sure that Cap's never ever encountered gas before.😆 Bats wouldn't know that he won't win up close unless it's a 2nd encounter my friend. I've seen people get close on Batman before, it's not impossible. Not for someone as slick and agile as Cap. Both are willing to fight dirty. Cap's killed before and he bashed the Enchantress's face in w/his shield. Cap does what it takes to win. Just like Bats does.
Cap succumbs to gas all the friggin time. What is gonna do? Hold his breath? Won't work the gas is porous. Sonic grenades? What's he gonna do? Cover his ears? Neural Scramblers? What's he gonna do? Shut off his brain. He can't counter the gadgets. Cap is purely physical. Batman is a perfect compendium of brain, brawn and tech. Cap is not a dirty fighter. Until I see him stab a guy in the nuts then I'll believe it. Batman is to tactical for Cap. And his martial art repoirte far exceeds Cap's. I wouldn't be surprised if he lands a nerve blow and end the fight here and there.
Originally posted by brainchild81
Was this fight w/WW w/prep? Does he always have 'em in his gloves? Yes. That's when Bats pretty much yielded. But I thought the point of you and Draco was that crossovers don't count. I agreed.
No. It was not with prep.
Bats didn't yield. Bats just got tired of this senseless fighting and wanted to do much more practical things: like save the frickin universe.
And Cap is nowhere near Batman's skill. Did you see my post:
Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.
Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.
This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.
From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.
The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.
Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.
As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.
Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.
The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it.
Cap ain't got sh** on Bats in the skill department.
Originally posted by Draco69Not likely. It depends on how you look @ it. Although I do think that Bats most likely knows more styles that Cap. Cap has went up against pretty much everything including the Taskmaster and he's no sloch in any department. His speed, strength, and stamina advantage combined w/his Martial arts prowess would make him too much for Batman up close. He's physically better than any human could ever be w/out enhancement. I watch MMA contests quite often and I've noticed that knowing more styles doesn't insure victory. It's more about how you use the styles you know. I see no reason why Cap can't avoid the gas altogether. Sonic grenades would require that Bats has time to protect himself from them unless Cap is a good distance away. I'm not sure exactly how neural scrambles are used or if Bats usually has one with him or uses them often. You can explain that to me if you wish. I imagine Cap knocking them out of Bats hands either by throwing the shield @ him or bouncing it off something. They're both master tacticians and fighters. I'm gonna go w/the guy w/physical advantages then. That's Cap.
Cap succumbs to gas all the friggin time. What is gonna do? Hold his breath? Won't work the gas is porous. Sonic grenades? What's he gonna do? Cover his ears? Neural Scramblers? What's he gonna do? Shut off his brain. He can't counter the gadgets. Cap is purely physical. Batman is a perfect compendium of brain, brawn and tech. Cap is not a dirty fighter. Until I see him stab a guy in the nuts then I'll believe it. Batman is to tactical for Cap. And his martial art repoirte far exceeds Cap's. I wouldn't be surprised if he lands a nerve blow and end the fight here and there.
Enhanced by the Super-Solider Serum, Captain America's agility, strength, endurance and reaction time are superior to those of an Olympic-level athlete. Also, Cap has mastered a number of fighting forms, including American-style boxing and judo. These abilities, combined with his indestructible shield, make him one of the finest human combatants Earth has ever known.
Captain America's only weapon is his Vibranium shield, a concave disk 2 1/2 feet in diameter that weighs 12 pounds. The shield's exceptional aerodynamic properties enable it to slice through the air with minimal wind resistance and deflection of path. The disk's unparalleled overall durability, coupled with a natural concentric stiffness, allows it to rebound off solid objects with minimal loss of angular momentum.
The gas comes out of his costume. His head more accurately.
The sonic grenades are contact-oriented. They also don't affect Batman because he protects himself.
Neural scramblers literally shut down your brain.
The Punisher caught the shield. You're kidding yourself if Batman can't catch the shield. He's deflected friggin bullets with batarangs.
Captain America is a very good fighter. But Batman's fighting skills is unreal. Literally. If you read the bio...which obviously you didn't..then you would know that Cap is outmatched in martial prowess.
I'm gonna go with the guy who has beaten White Martians, Superman, Captain Marvel and Gorilla Grodd. I'm gonna go with the guy who has mastered 127 martial arts and has incredible array of gadgetry(even alien gadgetry such as Kryptonian or Martian).
And his armour is uncanny. Cap's costume isn't onpar with his.
Originally posted by brainchild81
Enhanced by the Super-Solider Serum, Captain America's agility, strength, endurance and reaction time are superior to those of an Olympic-level athlete. Also, Cap has mastered a number of fighting forms, including American-style boxing and judo. These abilities, combined with his indestructible shield, make him one of the finest human combatants Earth has ever known.Captain America's only weapon is his Vibranium shield, a concave disk 2 1/2 feet in diameter that weighs 12 pounds. The shield's exceptional aerodynamic properties enable it to slice through the air with minimal wind resistance and deflection of path. The disk's unparalleled overall durability, coupled with a natural concentric stiffness, allows it to rebound off solid objects with minimal loss of angular momentum.
Again:
Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.
Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.
This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.
From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.
The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.
Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.
As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.
Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.
The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it.
Batman's weapons: batarangs, sonics, gas, neural scramblers, acid, ice beams, electric batarangs, nets, polos, etc.
Captain america is one of the greatest tactians ever. he has been shot at by how many guns a blazing. do u think batman, can set on of his gas bombs off, without captain america nailing him first? i dont think so. plus he is the perfect man, he is superior to batman, in every physical department. He isnt as smart as batman, but captain america has also been doing this for far longer than batman. hes been around ww2 batman wasnt even born then.
In a "Marvel vs. DC," 1995-96 series, Batman defeated Captain America but just barely. The battle was equally matched for hours (much like Batman's famous fight with Ras Al Ghul in the desert) until finally Cap stumbled, lost his focus for a split second and instantly a batarang bounced off his head.
Originally posted by Draco69Cap's costume doesn't need to be onpar w/Batmans. I read the bio the 1st time you posted it. Impressive, but it's not like everything listed would be a factor in this fight. I've seen him out-knuckled before. I figured neural scramblers would do that. I asked how. What's the method of delivery? Beam. Sound pulse. Something he throws @ you. The fights you listed were won w/prep or prep & help for the most part. It's easy to stop someone when you have their definite weakness @ your disposal. Not all that impressive. White Martians? Meh. My pyromanic baby cousin beat them before. Bats has dealt w/Martians before hand. Supes? Meh. Krytonite. I've heard that Supes was always holding back or that Bruce had help. Capt. Marvel? I have no idea how Batman beat him, but I'm almost 100% sure it wasn't on a 1st encounter.
The gas comes out of his costume. His head more accurately.The sonic grenades are contact-oriented. They also don't affect Batman because he protects himself.
Neural scramblers literally shut down your brain.
The Punisher caught the shield. You're kidding yourself if Batman can't catch the shield. He's deflected friggin bullets with batarangs.
Captain America is a very good fighter. But Batman's fighting skills is unreal. Literally. If you read the bio...which obviously you didn't..then you would know that Cap is outmatched in martial prowess.
I'm gonna go with the guy who has beaten White Martians, Superman, Captain Marvel and Gorilla Grodd. I'm gonna go with the guy who has mastered 127 martial arts and has incredible array of gadgetry(even alien gadgetry such as Kryptonian or Martian).
And his armour is uncanny. Cap's costume isn't onpar with his.
The point is that his armour is made of alien technology and some of the most sophisticated gadgetry in his world. Do really think the richest man in the world is gonna wear a costume made of spandex. No! His costume could withstand hits from Class 100 characters.
Not a factor? His skills would outshadow Cap's. Please.
No. Actually they can come out with his punches or his kicks. Or out of his friggin head.
Batman is gonna win. Sorry. But he is more skilled and his gadgets would dominate him. Sonics, neural scramblers. Nice try though.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
If he was frozen all of those years then how can he have so much experience?
he doesn't because he already has the nessary experience in the army.
and add this to his the list.
Captain America has agility, strength, speed, endurance, and reaction time superior to any Olympic athlete who ever competed. The Super-Soldier formula that he has metabolized has enhanced all of his bodily functions to the peak of human efficiency. Notably, his body eliminates the excessive build-up of fatigue-producing poisons in his muscles, granting him phenomenal endurance.
Captain America has mastered the martial art of American-style boxing and judo, and has combined these disciplines with his own unique hand-to-hand style of combat. He engages in a daily regimen of rigorous exercise (including aerobics, weight lifting, gymnastics, and simulated combat) to keep himself in peek condition. Captain America is one of the finest human combatants Earth has ever known.
Lets add this to Batmans list:
Batman is a trained scientist, escape artist, detective and inventor.
Batman began his physical and mental conditioning when he was 11.
Began intense physical training and weight lifting at age 12.
Trained in the US for various martial arts for 3 years.
Gained degrees in criminal science, forensics, computer science, chemistry and engineering by the time he was 16.
Became 2st and 3nd degree black belt in Karate, Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido by the time he was 17.
Trained and became proficient with all small arms and basic vehicles operations.
By the time he was 18 he:
Studied commando style operations with small mercenary units.
Left US to further study martial arts under specialized masters.
Other skills: knife throwing, escrima, melee weapons mastery, body control
Other skills: disguise, diverse environmental training, combat driving, savate, kungfu
Other skills: security systems, illusion/sleight of hand, blind fighting
By the time he was 24 he had expanded his studies for more advanced:
forensic and medical sciences
expanded computer and engineering sciences
expanded disguise and weapon/device sciences
expand device pool, improve vehicle designs
use of personal powered armor and systems.
continual physical training in Batcave facility.
database creation on underworld crime bosses, rogue's gallery foes and other supers.
expanded melee weapon techniques
improved material sciences for body armor and micro-machinery
Originally posted by Draco69If a Class 100 character wanted to kill Bats w/one punch they would if they landed it. His costume could withstand hits from Class 100 characters if they wern't really trying is more like it. Don't fool yourself. And Cap is going to hurt him when he punches him in the face. No armor there. You never said how often he uses these scramblers either. If these sonic grenades detonate on contact, that's great provided Cap just stands there. And I still say he has to take time to protect himself unless he's always wearing protection against sonics. (How can he hear?) Cap would move. I thought Bruce didn't use alien stuff in the normal costume except Kryp. Maybe I was wrong. You got any pics of Bats using scramblers in the ways you've described? Punisher caught the shield? Wonderful. Something tells me he still lost. While Bruce is catching the shield Cap is getting closer. Game over. It might take a while, but once it gets to close quarters, it's only a matter of time before Bats tires. Don't worry though. He'd get some sleep soon after.🙂
The point is that his armour is made of alien technology and some of the most sophisticated gadgetry in his world. Do really think the richest man in the world is gonna wear a costume made of spandex. No! His costume could withstand hits from Class 100 characters.Not a factor? His skills would outshadow Cap's. Please.
No. Actually they can come out with his punches or his kicks. Or out of his friggin head.
Batman is gonna win. Sorry. But he is more skilled and his gadgets would dominate him. Sonics, neural scramblers. Nice try though.