Jin VS Hwoarang

JustFrame, how about you calm down now. its time you grow up.

Still, is still theory, the fact is, both of them fought at their best, and the outcome ='s Draw, again, your acting like Jin "wasn't" trying. The two fought fair and square, please don't degrade Hwoarang.

itMy point was that Jin did not BEAT Hwoarang in Tekken 3. Please spare me the Jin beats T. Ogre, we all know that by now.

Read his official bio again, it says absolutely nothing about fighting Jin Kazama during Tekken 3. In fact, the reference of his battle with Jin was during the "Money Fights" that occured before Tekken 3, from a direct quote of the official Hwoarang Bio.

"He longingly recalled the days of hustling money in street fights and the rush he experienced from hand-to-hand combat. He often thought of one fight in particular...the fight against Jin Kazama."

He is directly thinking of his draw fight in which occured previous to Tekken 3, not during Tekken 3 the tournament. Considering it says ONE fight, and also during the days of his hustling, which all occured previous to Tekken 3, so yes, I did negate your "theory". Jin never ever beat Hwoarang during Tekken 3.

Jin's abilities as Regular Jin is exactly the same

uote it from an official statement of where Ken says it wasn't a "legit fight", I'll be looking forward to this

Seriously, threaten me with getting banned again, and I'll definitely bring you to the Mods. Because again, I've gotten no remark from a Mod telling me, or giving me - points or what not. So if you bring that remark one more time, I'll see it that you get what you deserve for threatening another person on the forums with banning when you yourself are not a mod, so keep it up if you really want it to go that way.

Tekken 5 regular Jin couldn't even control his powers, so the "ability" to harness it like how Kazuya would have is outrageous. Considering whenever Devil comes out, he completely blacks out every single time. When has Jin shown the ability to harness Devil's powers as Regular Jin for an upgrade? Hmm...if you bring up Tekken 4 against his fight with Kazuya and Hei, then you are absolutely wrong, considering it was Kazuya who brought forth Devil from Jin, not Jin himself.

It's been shown again and again, that Jin can't control his Devil powers unlike Kazuya, and more importantly that Jin himself doesn't want to use Devil's poweers. This wouldn't have any relevance to his fights with Hwoarang even all the way up to this point. Because "had" Jin of harnessed Devil's powers and gotten the so called "upgrade", he would have easily mopped the floor with Hwoarang in Tekken 5 even if he "wasn't focused".

In fact, even all the way up to their battle in Tekken 5 it proves my case that regular Jin was never "upgraded with Devil powers" unless he went Devil Jin. Read Hwoarang's official Tekken 6 BIO again, it clearly states that only after the Battle and when Hwoarang beat Jin with the Mishima lying on the ground then Jin suddenly roars with a paranormal sound with black wings and stands before Hwoarang in his Devil Form and unleashed it against Hwoarang, out fighting him and then knocking him unconscious

There has been absolutely no proof you can show to me in which Jin could harness Devils powers as Regular Jin without going completely blank, meaning that he wouldn't even be Regular Jin anymore. So in regards to what I said earlier is true that Regular Jin vs Hwoarang ='s 50/50, Devil Jin vs Hwoarang ='s Devil Jin advantage.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
JustFrame, how about you calm down now. its time you grow up.

i'm not degratind bob. the text specifically mentions bob trying his level best. not jin.

Where does the official statements stated that Hwoarang was going 100% while Jin wasn't? Where? Even the official statements of Hwoarang's own bio from Tekken 3 disproves your case. The fact that you assume Jin wasn't trying gives the idea that you are just making it all wishy washy to what you "think" happened, and yes, downplay Hwoarang.

The fact of the matter is this, both of them fought, the outcome was a draw.

Originally posted by Sado22
chill JF. and how exactly do you suppose Jin got that far in the tournament if he didn't win all the matches aside from Paul? and why wasn't bob there?
it has everything to do with Jin being there to fight T Ogre and not bob.

Jin fighting T. Ogre isn't the concern, Jin making it to the Semi-Finals isn't the concern. The concern is that Namco never stated within the official statements of either character that they fought during Tekken 3. This would have been significant for Hwoarang, yet even within his official Tekken 4 profile, it only states of one occasion which was refered to Pre-Tekken3.

Stop talking about Jin fighting T. Ogre now, that has no relevance to the Hwoarang vs Jin debate.

Originally posted by Sado22
arguable.

Right, especially when it was directly referenced to the battle before Tekken 3.

Originally posted by Sado22
what do you suppose bob was doing the T3 tournament, JustFrame? knitting? it WAS h2h combat. it says he remebered the hustling AND the rush of h2h combat, which he wasnt' getting. 2 years ago he was fighting at the biggest throwdown of the century for 1 billion dollars, the Zaibatsu and a chance to settle it with Jin. sounds like something to be nostalgic about. and just so that you understand it: it wasn't a pillow fight.

Please stop throwing out things that have absolutely no reference to what we are debating about. In Tekken 3 there would have been more then "one single" semi-finals, for all we know, Paul could have beaten Hwoarang before he went on to beat Jin. It still remains that Hwoarang's official bios never stated that he confronted, or fought Jin during the Tekken 3 tournament, with only reference to it prior which was the hustle fight.

The 1 billion dollars, Mishima Zaibatsu, has absolutely nothing to do with this debate. It's about if Jin vs Hwoarang, and in this case, the two never fought in Tekken 3, so your theory isn't valid.

Originally posted by Sado22
not really.

Go back and read the offical statements again, it says during the Hustle and only one, remember, one not two, if it was two, then they would have definitely fought during Tekken 3, however stating only one incident only means Pre-Tekken 3.

Originally posted by Sado22
proof? and why would they work different from Kazuya's if they are the same thing?

Jin has not shown once as Regular Jin to be able to do feats that Devil Jin does, nor has he shown once that he could utilize the power of Devil for his own at will. Not once, and Hwoarang has shown that he is more then capable of handling a Jin who is not "consumed" by Devil Jin, even all the way up to Tekken 5.

Kazuya has shown that he is far more capable of utilizing Devil's powers for his own, as with the canon storyline of the ending of Tekken 4 during Honmaru. Has shown been officially shown with capabilities to do what Kazuya can do with Devil's powers as will? No.

Originally posted by Sado22
easy: why did ken want to fight ryu again in SFA3? 2 years later? and then again in SF2?

The official statements does not say "He wants to get a legit win". All it states is that Ken was rekindled in his fighting spirit when he heard of Ryu joining the SF:II tournament. Nothing of what you are claiming or boasting.

Originally posted by Sado22
stop being stupid. i'm not threatening you. i'm reminding you what happened last time when your little hissyfit ended with you being directly asked by other posters and a mod to cut the flaming. might want to check the last thread where you began your fated-to-end-in-failure anti-sado crusades 😂

Lol, bringing up a thing that occured 4+ months ago must the "mature" part on your lvl right? Considering I still did not get a pm, or any negative statement from a Mod, I'll leave it at that, however I've had enough of this remark coming from you Sado, have fun.

Originally posted by Sado22
he couldn't control it because of Jinpachi's presence [nice to see you're reading those prologues]. that's what made him lose his mind in the first place. Devil powers in Jin are volatile because of the kazama blood already present in him. kazuya can control it with ease because he doesn't have kazama blood running through his veins....which is a direct anti-force to devil powers. the reason he blacks out is the same reason Iori blacks out after Riot mode: fatigue. devil Kazuya is pure and focused. Devil Jin is a berserker....for two reasons:
-he's a direct reaction to Jinpachi
-the kazama blood flows in his veins.

jin loathes his bloodline and the devil in him. but he uses it because its a part of him. its in his blood. same as kazuya.

You are absolutely wrong on so many levels, first off, Jin couldn't even control Devil even before Jinpachi rose out from under Honmaru (Post Tekken 3, All of Tekken 4, all of Tekken 5...in here Jin knew it was going to show up again). Jinpachi only fueled Devil's presence.

Also, Kazama blood does act as a "counter" to Devil, however Jin himself does not want to use Devil, or be consumed by Devil within the first place anyhow, which is why he fights against it so much. Unlike Kazuya who welcomed the Devil into him, and then sought to find a way to capture and harness the Devil Gene for himself.

It is not because Kazuya doesn't have the Kazama blood, it's because Kazuya wants the Devil Power for himself, and readily welcomes it. Where as Jin displays again, and again that he doesn't want it, however within T5, he can no longer subdue it due to Jinpachi's presence.

Also...how in the world does talking about this have any relevance to the point that Jin still cannot use the Devil Gene under Regular Jin and without becoming Devil Jin? Stop derailing the process here, this is about Hwoarang vs Jin.

Originally posted by Sado22
.........and that proves that regular jin doesn't use Devil powers because?

How do you disprove it? Official statements doesn't say Jin "harnessing" devils powers as Regular Jin does it? If Hwoarang beat a regular Jin harnessing Devil's powers, then lol...Hwoarang is more manly then we thought! However, the official statements clearly state Jin, not Devil Jin, not "Upgraded" Jin, but Jin, and that only when Jin was defeated and laying on the floor did Devil unleash itself.

Again, if you disagree, prove to me that it was "Upgraded" Jin, in fact, Prove to me somewhere as to how Jin could control and harness Devil for himself, when throughout all of his time in Tekken with the Devil Gene he has shown that he can't, and even if it was...he still lost to Hwoarang. Making that even with his "upgraded" powers, he got pawned, lmao. So my statement still stands. Hwoarang beat Jin, and only when Jin became Devil, did he knock Hwoarang out.

Originally posted by Sado22
already explained above. read those prologues man. and watch your mouth also while you're at it.

~Sado

Vise Versa, read above...

Where does the official statements stated that Hwoarang was going 100% while Jin wasn't? Where? Even the official statements of Hwoarang's own bio from Tekken 3 disproves your case. The fact that you assume Jin wasn't trying gives the idea that you are just making it all wishy washy to what you "think" happened, and yes, downplay Hwoarang. The fact of the matter is this, both of them fought, the outcome was a draw.

The concern is that Namco never stated within the official statements of either character that they fought during Tekken 3. This would have been significant for Hwoarang, yet even within his official Tekken 4 profile, it only states of one occasion which was refered to Pre-Tekken3.

Please stop throwing out things that have absolutely no reference to what we are debating about.

In Tekken 3 there would have been more then "one single" semi-finals, for all we know, Paul could have beaten Hwoarang before he went on to beat Jin.

It still remains that Hwoarang's official bios never stated that he confronted, or fought Jin during the Tekken 3 tournament, with only reference to it prior which was the hustle fight.

The 1 billion dollars, Mishima Zaibatsu, has absolutely nothing to do with this debate. It's about if Jin vs Hwoarang, and in this case, the two never fought in Tekken 3, so your theory isn't valid.[quote]
never said the 1billion was the issue.

[quote]Go back and read the offical statements again, it says during the Hustle and only one, remember, one not two, if it was two, then they would have definitely fought during Tekken 3, however stating only one incident only means Pre-Tekken 3.

Jin has not shown once as Regular Jin to be able to do feats that Devil Jin does, nor has he shown once that he could utilize the power of Devil for his own at will.

Hwoarang has shown that he is more then capable of handling a Jin who is not "consumed" by Devil Jin, even all the way up to Tekken 5.

Kazuya has shown that he is far more capable of utilizing Devil's powers for his own, as with the canon storyline of the ending of Tekken 4 during Honmaru. Has shown been officially shown with capabilities to do what Kazuya can do with Devil's powers as will? No.

seriously mate, you need to get your facts straight. Kazuya has control over devil..... 😆

The official statements does not say "He wants to get a legit win". All it states is that Ken was rekindled in his fighting spirit when he heard of Ryu joining the SF:II tournament. Nothing of what you are claiming or boasting.

Lol, bringing up a thing that occured 4+ months ago must the "mature" part on your lvl right? Considering I still did not get a pm, or any negative statement from a Mod, I'll leave it at that, however I've had enough of this remark coming from you Sado, have fun.

You are absolutely wrong on so many levels, first off, Jin couldn't even control Devil even before Jinpachi rose out from under Honmaru (Post Tekken 3, All of Tekken 4, all of Tekken 5...in here Jin knew it was going to show up again). Jinpachi only fueled Devil's presence.

Kazuya has shown that he is far more capable of utilizing Devil's powers for his own, as with the canon storyline of the ending of Tekken 4 during Honmaru. Has shown been officially shown with capabilities to do what Kazuya can do with Devil's powers as will? No

It is not because Kazuya doesn't have the Kazama blood, it's because Kazuya wants the Devil Power for himself, and readily welcomes it. Where as Jin displays again, and again that he doesn't want it, however within T5, he can no longer subdue it due to Jinpachi's presence.

Also...how in the world does talking about this have any relevance to the point that Jin still cannot use the Devil Gene under Regular Jin and without becoming Devil Jin? Stop derailing the process here, this is about Hwoarang vs Jin

How do you disprove it? Official statements doesn't say Jin "harnessing" devils powers as Regular Jin does it? If Hwoarang beat a regular Jin harnessing Devil's powers, then lol...Hwoarang is more manly then we thought! However, the official statements clearly state Jin, not Devil Jin, not "Upgraded" Jin, but Jin, and that only when Jin was defeated and laying on the floor did Devil unleash itself.

Again, if you disagree, prove to me that it was "Upgraded" Jin

in fact, Prove to me somewhere as to how Jin could control and harness Devil for himself, when throughout all of his time in Tekken with the Devil Gene he has shown that he can't

and even if it was...he still lost to Hwoarang.

Making that even with his "upgraded" powers, he got pawned, lmao. So my statement still stands. Hwoarang beat Jin, and only when Jin became Devil, did he knock Hwoarang out.

~Sado

Good grief, mother of all...I won't quote this all, as it's become too much of a headache, however, since we have been arguing left and right, I took the time to go to Tekkenzaibatsu and pmed ALL the people who have accumulated all the info as canon to the storyline of Tekken as possible.

So here I am, going to place out all of the facts, because there was some parts that I was definitely wrong in, and yes, some parts that you Sado (although you probably still won't admit it), where definitely wrong in as well.

Firstly about the part in which I was wrong involving Devil Kazuya and Devil Jin gig...

Speaking with a few people like Kurichan, they have announced to me that Kazuya and Jin can both harness Devil's powers even without reverting to the form of Devil "insert either one of their names". So in this case, Sado you are correct, Jin is "upgraded" during T4 onward at least.

However, on to the main point revolving around Hwoarang, I asked and also received an answer.

The indication of Hwoarang going all out and Jin holding back during Pre-Tekken 3 is another poor conclusion.

Again, the reposting of Hwoarang's Official Tekken 3 Bio...

"One day, members of the Mishima Group came to town, including among them Jin Kazama. Hwoarang talks them into his game and is matched against Jin. Hwoarang embarrassingly can only manage a draw."

Nowhere does it say that either competitor was holding back or what not. The conclusion is that, Jin and Hwoarang fought, and the two where evenly matched with neither giving ground to the other. So the indication of Jin not using his full potential here is false, because there is nothing to state that Jin is holding back, when he openly agrees to the challenge of Hwoarang.

Another point is that Jin even in his upgraded form has not been shown within the storyline up to this point to be able to outclass or flat out beat Hwoarang, unless he fully becomes Devil Jin (meaning he completely changes to his horn, black winged appearance), to do so as to what occured during Tekken 5.

The assumption that Jin was holding back against Hwoarang as Sado has indicated is wrong. In Hwoarang's introduction to his fight against Jin ( just assuming that this verbal talk too place prior to the fight) Jin states that "There are other matters I have to deal with, but I will deal with you first."

Unlike the Ryu and Ken battle, for although Ryu does except the battle (He is still clouded on his intake of Satsu-No-Hadou) where Ryu was clearly confused, and completely unfocused in his fight (as noticed by Ken), and thus, indicated with statements afterwards.

However in Tekken 5, Jin has already accepted his fate, so there is no amount of confusion, or distraction that would equate to the same level as to what was seen with Ryu vs Ken in A2.

In fact, the whole entire Hwoarang Interlude happening the way it did in Tekken 5 is most likely false, due to the mere fact that Jin did not walk away, with Hwoarang cussing at him. Because what actually happened was that Jin was beaten to the ground, and with Hwoarang having finally defeated Jin did he turn to Devil Jin and overwhelming Hwoarang, knocking him unconscious. So there is no statement as to you Sado pointing out that Jin was was confused during this battle. The answer that we do know is this, that Hwoarang beat Jin in his "norm" state while Jin fully becoming Devil Jin defeated Hwoarang.

Another indication that I brought out at TZ with Sados statements was about how Hwoarang supposedly fought and lost to Jin in Tekken 3, which is again is regarded as false. After pming them about this, they even agreed with my very own statements, that the only battle that took place prior to Tekken 5 was before Tekken 3. With the indication from Hwoarang's own Tekken 4 profile taken here yet again...

"He longingly recalled the days of hustling money in street fights and the rush he experienced from hand-to-hand combat. He often thought of one fight in particular ...the fight against Jin Kazama."

Notice to how Hwoarang is only thinking of the Money Hustle fights, and his one single battle with Jin. Had Hwoarang of fought Jin in Tekken 3, there should have been reference to that moment, since it is a key significance to his storyline, however there is absolutely no statement involving that, other then his hustling days and Pre-T3 Jin battle.

Much like what I stated earlier, they said that Hwoarang would have easily have gone through the Tekken 3 tournament and still not have fought Jin, due to the fact of the multiple people entering in it, and that there would have been multiple brackets, so the notion of the two not fighting one another throughout the tournament is very real.

Which is exactly the reason why it goes hand in hand with Hwoarang's official statement of only realizing one fight with Jin. Also, the fact that Hwoarang does not hold any grudge up against anyone else other then Jin is very simple. Hwoarang views Jin as a rival and nobody else, the only fight that truly fuels Hwoarang is Jin, this much in the case with Ken to Ryu, where as Ken always has his fighting spirit rekindled when he can have a chance to fight Ryu. So refuting the reason why Hwoarang if he lost to Paul, he would not have a grudge against Paul, because Paul is not the reason why Hwoarang would have entered the tournament for.

So to end this insanely drawn out debate, Jin has never ever beaten Hwoarang, and has only gotten a draw, while Hwoarang has beaten Jin. This is an indication that Hwoarang is definitely on par with Jin when the two fight each other, without Jin going 100% complete Devil Jin.

I will say this, if you come back, and try to "dispute" this, and try to downgrade Hwoarang, or try to cover up Jin with anymore "He wasn't trying" comments, it's clear to me, and to everyone that you aren't trying to put all of the real facts together.

Jin vs Hwoarang ='s 50/50, however 100% Devil Jin mode vs Hwoarang ='s Jin>Hwoarang.

Originally posted by Sado22
that's like me saying ryu's a pvssy for getting smacked around by ken. heck, by that token akuma's the biggest pvssy cuz ken beat down ryu and ryu did well against akuma. and i'm supposed to be one whos downplaying a character 😆
laugh at that, mate! 😎

~Sado

You must be going crazy here, it's obvious that Ken fights well against Ryu is because Ken has the most experience fighting against Ryu then anyone else in the entire SF Universe. That's no different than Yipes being able to fight so well against Justin Wong in MvC2 because Yipes plays against Justin like....All the time, while every other elite player gets pawned by Wong.

So the whole Gouki, Ryu, and Ken thing is really hilarious, considering even Vasil (You know...one of the guys who's doing the canon plot for the SF Guide) has indicated that with the coming of SF:IV, Ryu is subsequently and could actually be more powerful then we had originally believed him to be in his current form.

Wow. U sure did your homework. Great post. Although, I dont think that Paul or anyone else for that matter beat Hwoarang. Because if they did, then Hwoarang would've definitely tried to avenge him. If a draw is a huge embarassment to him then a loss would've been a disaster. But since he's still focused on fighting Jin, then it kinda proves he hasnt lost to anyone else.

Firstly about the part in which I was wrong involving Devil Kazuya and Devil Jin gig. Speaking with a few people like Kurichan, they have announced to me that Kazuya and Jin can both harness Devil's powers even without reverting to the form of Devil "insert either one of their names". So in this case, Sado you are correct, Jin is "upgraded" during T4 onward at least.

The indication of Hwoarang going all out and Jin holding back during Pre-Tekken 3 is another poor conclusion. Again, the reposting of Hwoarang's Official Tekken 3 Bio. "One day, members of the Mishima Group came to town, including among them Jin Kazama. Hwoarang talks them into his game and is matched against Jin. Hwoarang embarrassingly can only manage a draw." Nowhere does it say that either competitor was holding back or what not. The conclusion is that, Jin and Hwoarang fought, and the two where evenly matched with neither giving ground to the other. So the indication of Jin not using his full potential here is false, because there is nothing to state that Jin is holding back, when he openly agrees to the challenge of Hwoarang

the assumption that Jin was holding back against Hwoarang as Sado has indicated is wrong. In Hwoarang's introduction to his fight against Jin (just assuming that this verbal talk too place prior to the fight) Jin states that "There are other matters I have to deal with, but I will deal with you first."

However in Tekken 5, Jin has already accepted his fate, so there is no amount of confusion, or distraction that would equate to the same level as to what was seen with Ryu vs Ken in A2.

In fact, the whole entire Hwoarang Interlude happening the way it did in Tekken 5 is most likely false, due to the mere fact that Jin did not walk away, with Hwoarang cussing at him.

So there is no statement as to you Sado pointing out that Jin was was confused during this battle. The answer that we do know is this, that Hwoarang beat Jin in his "norm" state while Jin fully becoming Devil Jin defeated Hwoarang.

Another indication that I brought out at TZ with Sados statements was about how Hwoarang supposedly fought and lost to Jin in Tekken 3, which is again is regarded as false. After pming them about this, they even agreed with my very own statements, that the only battle that took place prior to Tekken 5 was before Tekken 3. With the indication from Hwoarang's own Tekken 4 profile taken here yet again...
"He longingly recalled the days of hustling money in street fights and the rush he experienced from hand-to-hand combat. He often thought of one fight in particular ...the fight against Jin Kazama."
Notice to how Hwoarang is only thinking of the Money Hustle fights, and his one single battle with Jin.

Had Hwoarang of fought Jin in Tekken 3, there should have been reference to that moment, since it is a key significance to his storyline, however there is absolutely no statement involving that, other then his hustling days and Pre-T3 Jin battle.

Much like what I stated earlier, they said that Hwoarang would have easily have gone through the Tekken 3 tournament and still not have fought Jin, due to the fact of the multiple people entering in it, and that there would have been multiple brackets, so the notion of the two not fighting one another throughout the tournament is very real. Which is exactly the reason why it goes hand in hand with Hwoarang's official statement of only realizing one fight with Jin. Also, the fact that Hwoarang does not hold any grudge up against anyone else other then Jin is very simple. Hwoarang views Jin as a rival and nobody else, the only fight that truly fuels Hwoarang is Jin, this much in the case with Ken to Ryu, where as Ken always has his fighting spirit rekindled when he can have a chance to fight Ryu. So refuting the reason why Hwoarang if he lost to Paul, he would not have a grudge against Paul, because Paul is not the reason why Hwoarang would have entered the tournament for.

Although, I dont think that Paul or anyone else for that matter beat Hwoarang. Because if they did, then Hwoarang would've definitely tried to avenge him. If a draw is a huge embarassment to him then a loss would've been a disaster. But since he's still focused on fighting Jin, then it kinda proves he hasnt lost to anyone else.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22

been saying this since day one.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
and if we assume that it was Jin's storymode, then he is clearly reluctant. in fact, if you notice Jin has always been reluctant to fight bob or to put it more accurately doesn't really care. Jin flat out says in T4 that there is no reason to fight, was rolling his eyes at bob in their TTT post-loss cinema and flat out says that he has more pressing issues to bob in HIS storymode and pretty much just got up and walked awya wihtout a care when he lost in bob's cinema.

Bobs cinema would have never taken place at all though. You are again just assuming that Jin is "still" the same Jin as from Tekken 4, in here, Jin knows that he has to deal with Hwoarang first before he can continue onward with what he has to do. Hwoarang ultimately becomes an obstacle that Jin has to confront regardless of the situation. In this fight, "had" Jin of held back, then there should have been an indication or some form of statement from Hwoarang because even he wouldn't have wanted a "freebie" fight.

Originally posted by Sado22
what proof do you have of that?
jin till the point he met bob was confused and was slowly losing his mind thanx to Jinpachi's awakening. all that is part of his official story.

Kurichan even states that Jin has excepted the Devil within him at this point, and is accepting the fact that he must confront Jinpachi, and the two will eventually fight. There is no confusion in Jin here whatsoever, Jin already knows what he has to do, and is bent on achieving it, in which case, he does so. When he confronts Hwoarang, there is absolutely nothing on the same lvl of what was seen with Ryu and Ken.

Originally posted by Sado22
you kinda contradict yourself, mate.

How would I have contradicted myself? A Jin without wings, and what not is very capable of losing to Hwoarang, while a Jin unleashing his full Devil Fury would destroy Hwoarang.

Originally posted by Sado22
and this could easily mean their fight in T3. because it doesn't say the hussling money days and fighting as explicitly the same. bob was just bored in T4 and missed the action of prior years. that's all it says.

You keep bringing this up, and I keep telling you that you are wrong, because of three huge factors. 1. He only talks of one single match 2. He speaks of the Hustle Fights but says absolutely nothing referring to the T3 tournament 3. Had Jin of fought and "beat" Hwoarang, it would most definitely have been stated in his T4 Bio...why would Namco leave something that signficant to his character out?

Again, there shouldn't be anymore argument to this, and the fact that you keep bringing this up, when there is no proof to state Hwoarang otherwise, while there is indications that Hwoarang only speaks of one single match which would have pertained to Pre-T3, and the answer is simple.

Originally posted by Sado22
it could be taken to mean either really. it says hustling days AND the h2h combat, which could mean the h2h combat the he undertook during the hussling days or all his fights in general which would include the hussling days AND the T3 tournament. notice also that it says "one fight in particular" which doesn't readily contradict the T3 argument.......in fact it might even further strengthen it because the one fight he has been thinking about is the one he lost to jin. not the draw. Ali often says that he remembers one fight in particular, the thrilla in manilla against Frazier. but they've had THREE fights in total. see what i mean?

First off, if the two fought in Tekken 3, then why wasn't it stated "Tekken 3 Tournament"? Can you explain that to me, why would he only mention one fight in particular? Hwoarang should have been furious in Tekken 4 as well, if he had lost to Jin in Tekken 3, and this would have been clearly stated in his Tekken 4 BIO.

Again, your running on your own "assumptions" and trying to stretch out the truth to fit your statements, however Hwoarang's bio indicates nothing to the Tekken 3 tournament, however he does indicate of his hustle fights, so read the two and see which one would make more sense to you.

You also keep forgetting one major flaw to your "theory", and I'll repeat this again. Had Hwoarang of lost to Jin, it would have been stated in his Tekken 4 BIO.

However, on another notion, that I seemingly let it fly under the radar...in Hwoarang's ending for Tekken 4, that will put this Sado theory to complete rest Hwoarang even states that he never fought Jin during the Tekken 3 tournament, so your accusations here is false.

Originally posted by Sado22
okay, you're making a big assumption here. first, you're saying that bob only considers Jin his real opponent and that's why even if somebody else beat him, it doesn't matter to bob. there are two things wrong with this assumption:
-one, if bob took a draw as such an insult no way in hell will he let go anyone who beat him easily.
-two, if jin really was such a great opponent and the only one he considered an opponent as you say, then he wouldn't be daydreaming about the other fights like he was in T4.
as it stands, you are yet to come up with a sound rebuttal to me saying bob lost to jin in T3. so far evidence points to him losing.

The fact of the matter remains here, we don't know who Hwoarang fought or lost too in Tekken. All we know is that Hwoarang WANTS to fight Jin, and another thing is, if "Hwoarang" wanted revenge on everybody, why is that even all the way up to Tekken 5, and going into Tekken 6, all he cares about is Jin?

My point of the matter is this...who is Hwoarang most concerned about? Lastly, my refute to you, is to watch Hwoarang's Tekken 4 ending again, even the japanese version Hwoarang says "I never fought you in the last tournament" Indicating Tekken 3...Lol. So "even" if Hwoarang's ending never took place, the mere fact that he mentions that he never got to fight Jin in Tekken 3 is correct, and coincides exactly with what I stated earlier.

So really, who's stretching the truth now?

Here's Tekken 4 Hwoarang's Ending...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI0p2iY4FPk

So Hwoarang is definitely no push over in the Tekken World. So to end, what I have been saying about Hwoarang being able to contend with Jin when he's not 100% pure Devil Mode is true 😄 Also, I will not debate this again, since it has been settled, Only Two fights occurred...

Pre-Tekken 3, Jin and Hwoarang fought to a draw.

Tekken 3 - They did not fight each other.

Tekken 4 - statements taken directly from Tekken 4 "Hwoarang was taken into custody by the South Korean military during the last round of the King of Iron Fist Tournament 4, keeping him from his long awaited fight with rival Jin Kazama." So they never got to fight.

Tekken 5 - Hwoarang defeated Jin with him lying on the ground, but Devil Jin fully awoke afterwords and knocked Hwoarang unconscious.

Again, if you try to argue or dispute that Hwoarang "can't" fight against Jin when he's not going full Devil Mode, then you aren't accepting the truth.

Originally posted by Wade Wilson
Wow. U sure did your homework. Great post. Although, I dont think that Paul or anyone else for that matter beat Hwoarang. Because if they did, then Hwoarang would've definitely tried to avenge him. If a draw is a huge embarassment to him then a loss would've been a disaster. But since he's still focused on fighting Jin, then it kinda proves he hasnt lost to anyone else.

I think the situation Hwoarang was in was different when he was fighting Jin. Since Hwoarang was a street thug leader, he was simply use to beating people up in street fights and he just assumed Jin was no different. When he fought to a draw, something he sure wasn't expecting, it probably ruined his reputation or his gang's view on him or something, which is probably why it was embarassing for him. That's probably why Hwoarang is only focused on Jin.

Originally posted by SmashBro
I think the situation Hwoarang was in was different when he was fighting Jin. Since Hwoarang was a street thug leader, he was simply use to beating people up in street fights and he just assumed Jin was no different. When he fought to a draw, something he sure wasn't expecting, it probably ruined his reputation or his gang's view on him or something, which is probably why it was embarassing for him. That's probably why Hwoarang is only focused on Jin.

Bobs cinema would have never taken place at all though. You are again just assuming that Jin is "still" the same Jin as from Tekken 4, in here, Jin knows that he has to deal with Hwoarang first before he can continue onward with what he has to do. Hwoarang ultimately becomes an obstacle that Jin has to confront regardless of the situation. In this fight, "had" Jin of held back, then there should have been an indication or some form of statement from Hwoarang because even he wouldn't have wanted a "freebie" fight.

Kurichan even states that Jin has excepted the Devil within him at this point, and is accepting the fact that he must confront Jinpachi, and the two will eventually fight. There is no confusion in Jin here whatsoever, Jin already knows what he has to do, and is bent on achieving it, in which case, he does so. When he confronts Hwoarang, there is absolutely nothing on the same lvl of what was seen with Ryu and Ken.

First off, if the two fought in Tekken 3, then why wasn't it stated "Tekken 3 Tournament"? Can you explain that to me, why would he only mention one fight in particular? Hwoarang should have been furious in Tekken 4 as well, if he had lost to Jin in Tekken 3, and this would have been clearly stated in his Tekken 4 BIO.

You also keep forgetting one major flaw to your "theory", and I'll repeat this again. Had Hwoarang of lost to Jin, it would have been stated in his Tekken 4 BIO.

However, on another notion, that I seemingly let it fly under the radar...in Hwoarang's ending for Tekken 4, that will put this Sado theory to complete rest Hwoarang even states that he never fought Jin during the Tekken 3 tournament, so your accusations here is false.

moot again.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
Ryu vs Ken gig.

You don't get it do you, in the official statements taken from Ken's Bio, Ryu looked confused prior to the match, Ken even notices this and challenges him to the fight anyhow (I don't believe Ken was fighting for the sake of just "getting" a win). Ryu was in conflict with Satsu-No-Hadou prior to this, there is no argument here, and this is different in the case of Jin as I'll state later.

Originally posted by Sado22
Jin not accepting Devil Jin

Maybe you weren't paying attention, however Jin has accepted Devil, in fact, if you even see the Devil Jin vs Jinpachi intro (which would have been Canon since Jin confronts Jinpachi as Devil Jin). Jin even fights Jinphachi with the full might of Devil, so both Jin's ending and Devil Jin's speech prior too and after would have occurred and are canon.

There is no more "conflict" or "confusion" with Jin no longer when Tekken 5 starts rolling, considering look at where Jin is at now in Tekken 6. He has become fully seduced by the power of Devil, once he accepted it during Tekken 5, and it only continued into Tekken 6.

Originally posted by Sado22
Talking about Paul, Kazuya, Steve fights or what not, and the "supposed" fight between Jin and Hwoarang in Tekken 3

That's because none of those defeats would matter to their character to the degree as Hwoarang's. Hwoarang's entire storyline is based upon fighting his rival Jin. Which is why your "theory" is ridiculous because that would have been the single most important thing to Hwoarang's story. Also, is Kazuya's entire storyline based upon "fighting" just one character? Is Paul's storyline based upon fighting against one rival? How about Steve, who does Steve need to fight that would be as significant lvl to his storyline along the same as Hwoarang vs Jin?

You are outrageous to believe that Namco would leave such an important fight as Hwoarang vs Jin out of Hwoarang's own Official profile if that "occured" during Tekken 3. The fact is, had it of happened, there would of/should of been a mentioning of it, Hwoarang should have stated it even within his profile, or his prologue, or ending, or what not during Tekken 4.

Hwoarang vs Jin never, ever occurred during Tekken 3, because the notion of leaving that out would have been completely stupid on Namco's part, and for the storyline of Hwoarang. There is absolutely no mentioning of it Post-Tekken 3 anywhere for Hwoarang at all, and if there is no mentioning of it, how in the world would it have taken place? Why do they state of only two official fights that took place between Hwoarang vs Jin?

Because by your "claim" if that occured, there should have been three official statements. Think about it before you get carried away again and start boasting this claim. Namco makes two official fights that occured with Hwoarang vs Jin, and no more. Not to mention, these very fights are Hwoarang's storyline itself, so they are again, a huge significance.

There is absolutely no mentioning of any fight occurring between the two in Tekken 3, or Tekken 4. There is no mentioning of it during Tekken 4 with Hwoarang's official bio, with only the statement of one match that occured Pre-T3. "If" this fight would "happened" in T3 and resulted in Jin winning, Hwoarang would have been training 50x within that T4 profile and would have been even more furious at that thought. However, all he talks about are his hustle fights and the one fight with Jin, both all within one sentence with no indication of it stating during T3.

Again, you boast this claim, yet you fail to realize that these fights to Hwoarang's character is what makes his storyline in Tekken (a boring one, just like Ken's, but a storyline nonetheless). There should have been a statement or mentioning of it, and please don't ever again ask why we don't know who Steve lost too, or yadi yada...that's not important to Steve's storyline is it. However, to Hwoarang, fighting Jin is the most important to to him, and is a key component to his storyline, and Namco has already given us the official profiles stating only two fights that occurred, and no more.

I should not need to say anymore on this matter.

You don't get it do you, in the official statements taken from Ken's Bio, Ryu looked confused prior to the match, Ken even notices this and challenges him to the fight anyhow (I don't believe Ken was fighting for the sake of just "getting" a win). Ryu was in conflict with Satsu-No-Hadou prior to this, there is no argument here, and this is different in the case of Jin as I'll state later.

Maybe you weren't paying attention, however Jin has accepted Devil, in fact, if you even see the Devil Jin vs Jinpachi intro (which would have been Canon since Jin confronts Jinpachi as Devil Jin). Jin even fights Jinphachi with the full might of Devil, so both Jin's ending and Devil Jin's speech prior too and after would have occurred and are canon.

There is no more "conflict" or "confusion" with Jin no longer when Tekken 5 starts rolling, considering look at where Jin is at now in Tekken 6. He has become fully seduced by the power of Devil, once he accepted it during Tekken 5, and it only continued into Tekken 6.

That's because none of those defeats would matter to their character to the degree as Hwoarang's. Hwoarang's entire storyline is based upon fighting his rival Jin. Which is why your "theory" is ridiculous because that would have been the single most important thing to Hwoarang's story. Also, is Kazuya's entire storyline based upon "fighting" just one character? Is Paul's storyline based upon fighting against one rival? How about Steve, who does Steve need to fight that would be as significant lvl to his storyline along the same as Hwoarang vs Jin?

You are outrageous to believe that Namco would leave such an important fight as Hwoarang vs Jin out of Hwoarang's own Official profile if that "occured" during Tekken 3. The fact is, had it of happened, there would of/should of been a mentioning of it, Hwoarang should have stated it even within his profile, or his prologue, or ending, or what not during Tekken 4.

I should not need to say anymore on this matter.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
Shenanigans involving Devil

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102989&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Read it, and be educated, this HAS been discussed before. I'm tired of having to talk about the whole Devil thing, that you seemingly cannot comprehend no longer. If you don't agree, POST up there instead, since they are the ones trying to accumulate a CANON guide to Tekken much like Vasil did with SF, because there were people exactly like you who disagree on that notion that Jin didn't embrace Devil, on that very thread, and where told why they are wrong. I should no longer have to debate with you on this matter. Again, these people posting here know more about Devil and it's storyline then you or I.

Originally posted by Sado22
~Jin vs Bob

Jin fighting Hwoarang isn't Jin's main storyline, however to Hwoarang it is, you either, fail to realize that, or are too biased to believe that fact. Which is why I said, Hwoarang's match up to Jin in Tekken 3 would have been crucial to Hwoarang's character.

So the thought of it being completely unmentioned Post-Tekken 3 would be stupid on Namco's part to Hwoarang's storyline. Which is why your theory "they fought in T3" holds absolutely no water, since we have zero reference, nor nothing during T4 which tells of Hwoarang's character losing to Jin in Tekken 3. Tekken 4 should have shown this, but made absolutely no mentioning of it, besides his hustle fights and the Pre-T3 match up.

Originally posted by Sado22
no far from that. Ryu egged on Ken in their fight. as proof, you can see their pre-fight dialogue.

Considering Ken's official Bio statement involving their match up in Alpha3 would actually negate their statements that took place in Alpha3 the game. Also, Ryu was truly confused, as opposed to Jin.

Lastly, it's as I said, Hwoarang vs Jin ='s 50/50, Hwoarang vs Devil Jin ='s DJ>>>Hwoarang.

This much we do know, however, I'll probably get a "Noo..they didn't" and more jibberish talk debate again, even though statements across Post-T3 have proven so for Hwoarang's case.

tekkenzaibatsu is full of people who are speculating. i used to be there for many years before i got bored of it and came to KMC. so save it. and tell me what exactly you want me to read because i'm not going through the entire thread guessing exactly what it was that you wanted me to see. i am also "SPECULATING" on the matter. the moment you "prove" that Jin and Bob never fought in a way that doesn't leave room for debate and doesn't contradict bob's own personality.....post it here and let me know. till then, you're just being foolish.

Also, Ryu was truly confused, as opposed to Jin.

This much we do know, however, I'll probably get a "Noo..they didn't" and more jibberish talk debate again, even though statements across Post-T3 have proven so for Hwoarang's case.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
tekkenzaibatsu is full of people who are [b]speculating. i used to be there for many years before i got bored of it and came to KMC. so save it. and tell me what exactly you want me to read because i'm not going through the entire thread guessing exactly what it was that you wanted me to see. i am also "SPECULATING" on the matter. the moment you "prove" that Jin and Bob never fought in a way that doesn't leave room for debate and doesn't contradict bob's own personality.....post it here and let me know. till then, you're just being foolish.[/B]

Lol, I knew you would make this statement with the above statement. Also, your speculation fails, in comparison to their speculation which *gasp*, makes MORE sense then what you where trying to prove, lmao. It's okay to run into denial here, however, the fact remains is that in Tekken 4, there is no mentioning of Hwoarang losing to Jin, even everyone at TekkenZaibatsu has agreed with this, and they are the NERDS OF TEKKEN gameplay and storyline wise.

Btw, it's no wonder you left, because your Devil theory wouldn't hold any water whatsoever, considering, these people are trying to find the closest to the truth as possible. Even Devi Jin's storyline which would have been canon btw, goes hand with what was stated in the Devil thread at TZ...which is why it debunks your notion.

Funny how to try to call it all speculation now, lol, yes, that's why you continued for how many pages debating with me stating that what you said was correct right? Honestly man, it figures you wouldn't post at Tekkenzaibatsu, because your theory is already proven incorrect anyhow, lmao.

Again, in case anyone else needs to read it...here it is again...since Sado just stubbornly disagrees with the statements of these people who have compiled the best evidence to notion of what they have stated, again, reference it to Devil Jin's statements before fighting Jinpachi (In-Game evidence), it makes perfect sense why Kurichan says Jin accepts Devil...

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102989&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by Sado22
proof? he was egging ken on while jin kept saying he's not interested. ryu was being a cocky sod the whole time while Jin was reluctant and the whole time he KNEW that he was going to lose his mind sooner or later. i don't know what your problem is but all this has been written in plain english.

Again, either you didn't bother to read, or you just didn't care to read (probably both) you would have noticed that I stated, that Ken's official A3 bio which was posted in the Canon Guide would negate what occurs in-game. This is reasons why only things in the game are used, if another official statement does not override it. The confusion between Ryu to Jin is astronomical in that Ken even noticed that Ryu was confused before the fight even took place. Jin is not in the same mindset as Ryu in comparison, so drop this already.

Originally posted by Sado22
how about you stop wanking at your posts and try seeing them for what they are. all you've done is post your own speculation as facts, other people's speculations as facts or have been saying you've proven stuff without actually doing so. when you prove something properly i'll be happy to agree. till then put up or shut up.

~Sado

There are certain speculations that make more sense then others. You need to sit down, and stop derailing it. I've told you about 100 times, that Hwoarang never ever talks about him fighting Jin in Tekken 3, and more importantly "Losing" to Jin in Tekken 3, during the entire events of Tekken 4. You can't even explain to me as to how something that significant would be left out of Hwoarang's storyline, when his entire storyline revolves around fighting Jin period.

Why didn't he mention it within his Tekken 4 ending then? That should of been a key moment, since that would have been the FIRST time he met (just saying that "if" it happened (we all know it didn't, but just saying).

So again, this is where my speculation makes way more sense then yours. Because as I stated 10,000 times over, Hwoarang fighting Jin is absolutely essential to Hwoarang's storyline, yet we are given only TWO occassions of them fighting one another throughout Post-Tekken 3.

Again, try and "speculate" which theory makes more sense, your notion of "They fought" yet Post Tekken 3, there is No reference going back to it...Tekken 4, which should have had reference to it if the two had fought, had absolutely no mentioning of it, besides Hwoarang hustle and first fight with Jin.

So yes, my "speculation" seems to be more accurate, and is agreed upon, not just by people at TZ mind you, but also japanese people who are big Tekken storyline fanatics, all of them point to the same reasons that I have pointed too as well. The fact that Namco gives only two notions of Hwoarang confronting and fighting Jin, and nothing else, not to mention to the fact that Hwoarang goes through the entire Tekken 4 storyline without ever once referencing a fight between Jin and himself during the Tekken 3 tournament.

Yes, it makes absolute and perfect sense that their fight in T3 never occured, otherwise it would have been stated for Hwoarang during Tekken 4.

Again, I'm not surprised that you twisting it to "go your way" with your above comments. Honestly, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, or when my speculation doesn't make as much sense as another that holds more water, however your just getting ridiculous now.

Your simply just arguing now for the sake of arguing.

I've said what has needed to be said, and ALL that Namco has given to us, points to exactly what I said earlier. That a Hwoarang vs Jin the match up is even, however Devil Jin easily beats Hwoarang.

are you going to tell me what you wanted me to look at or what?

calm down and post something that makes sense. all you're saying is TZ folks said this and that.....and i really don't give a shite about what they think because it THEIR SPECULATION. T4 makes no mention specifically of either of the fights so why don't you just kill the noise. if you find something that proves that Bob never fought Jin in T3, let me know. till then, you aint proving anything. oh and you're "evidence" for Bob not losing is selfcontradictory and defies logic. you still haven't answered why bob went emo over a draw but has no beef with whoever it was that beat him in T3? he obviously lost and since he's still chasing Jin's keister two years later.........it only makes sense that he lost to Bob. your failure to wrap your head around this simple statement is baffling really.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
are you going to tell me what you wanted me to look at or what?

calm down and post something that makes sense. all you're saying is TZ folks said this and that.....and i really don't give a shite about what they think because it THEIR SPECULATION. T4 makes no mention specifically of either of the fights so why don't you just kill the noise. if you find something that proves that Bob never fought Jin in T3, let me know. till then, you aint proving anything. oh and you're "evidence" for Bob not losing is selfcontradictory and defies logic. you still haven't answered why bob went emo over a draw but has no beef with whoever it was that beat him in T3? he obviously lost and since he's still chasing Jin's keister two years later.........it only makes sense that he lost to Bob. your failure to wrap your head around this simple statement is baffling really.

~Sado

Lol, this again...it never ceases to amaze me, you simply will not stop will you? No matter how wrong you are, you simply will keep on denying it. When someone proves you wrong "It's speculation only!"...lmao, and me calming down? How can I calm down, when I am Loling so hard from reading your comments now.

For the last time, Tekken 4 only mentions the hustle fight between Jin and Hwoarang...however, why indicate this...but no mentioning of the Tekken 3 fight?

Again, why is there ZERO indication of this? The fact that it is important to Hwoarang, it would have been on his Official Bio without a doubt (<-- remember that), however it's absolutely not even mentioned or stated, in fact, nothing involving the Tekken 3 tournament for Hwoarang was even mentioned, only his hustle fights.

This is why there is nothing to refute or debate about this anymore. The fact that you've made this into a "it's your speculation" is you losing in this debate, lol.

You want to talk about "speculation" well...quite frankly, the speculation that was given at Tekkenzaibatsu, makes WAY more sense, then your supposed "speculation", which is what I'm trying to say to you. The fact that Kurichan's statements as well as a few others coincide with what happens to Devil Jin during Tekken 5 go hand and hand.

The fact that Hwoarang never mentions of a fight between Jin and himself during Tekken 3, and only indicating of a fight between the two Pre-Tekken3 within his Bio gives any logical person (who's not defending their biased and now baseless speculation) that this fight would not have occurred, because it would have been a significant match up, and would have been stated upon his Bio for Tekken 4.

The facts are simple, we are given TWO OFFICIAL statements of the two fighting...yet, you somehow "disagree" upon this. Your 5+ post cannot refute my saying as to how they would talk about his Pre-Tekken3 fight and then have absolutely no mentioning of the two squaring off in the Tekken 3 tournament. Does that make sense to you? Considering the Tekken 3 tournament fight "had" the two of fought, would have been far more important to Hwoarang's storyline then the Pre-Tekken 3 fight.

Yet during Hwoarang's own T4 Bio, it only speaks of his hustles fights and the one Pre-T3 fight. Then all of a sudden, there is no mentioning of the two fighting during T3 at all within T4...and T4 would have been the game to give information about this, "had" their match occurred.

No mentioning of Tekken 3 fight, no fight within T4 occurred, and all of a sudden we have a fight that took place in Tekken 5...which was STATED in Hwoarang's Tekken 6 Bio. Now do you see why I said your statement doesn't make sense...because in Tekken 5 since the two DID fight, it was stated in Hwoa's Bio in Tekken 6...now...why would they not post this for Hwoarang's official Tekken 4 bio if "a" match would have occurred in Tekken 3?

Why exclude it for Tekken 4 Hwoa Bio (if the two fought in T3), but include it for Tekken 6 when the two did fight during Tekken 5? Would it make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me, and this is why everyone else (besides only you) disagrees upon the idea that the two "somehow" fought in Tekken 3. Hwoarang fighting Jin is the key component to his storyline, and the fact that Namco makes the official statement of the two fighting Pre-T3 and within T5, but no references at all for T3 or T4, is a clear and bold indication by them the story writers, that a fight between the two never, ever occurred during those two tournaments.

Now I grow sick and tired of this, because you can't even refute my statements (even though they are backed by TWO OFFICIAL STATEMENTS from Hwoarang's own Bio), and yet you keep on riding on your notion when there is nothing to say otherwise. Namco's own official Hwoarang bio's disagree with your "speculation", and that's makes absolute and perfect reason why everyone else would agree that Hwoarang and Jin never fought during Tekken 3.

However, I'm tired of this...the fact that you deny the Devil statements given at TZ, even though there statements coincide with the Tekken 5 (Watch Devil Jin's storyline in there again with Jinpachi) and Tekken 6 storyline, the fact that Namco makes official two fights between Jin vs Hwoarang...again, why include the fight in Tekken 6 saying they fought in T5 with Hwoarang WINNING, and then not mention it in T4 about T3 with only statements to a their Pre-T3 fight.

I'm tired of this, and I've laughed enough already, anyone who has actually went on to read this, should come to the same realization as I have about Hwoarang. Hwoarang can definitely fight and yes, beat Jin when he's not all Emo, that's what this is all about...however you somehow deny that fact, lmao...even though the storyline of Tekken rightfully doesn't agree with you, rofl.

Sado, watch it. Debate the words, not the one writing them. No flaming or trolling.

Non-Flaming Sado?

You'll have an easier time finding Rhino beating someone in a comic.