I was goin by that very recent thanos series where he came across kosmos last summer. So i dunno.....But anyway after the retcon the cubes powers lie more with illusion. Theres no way the molecule man could take out the celestials, the phoenix, eternity or the living tribunal. Hes outclassed by all of them. But yeah he is very powerful.
Originally posted by Superherovandal
no way that LT could rule he'd have to get through the Source and Presence and Lucifer and Michael. Or fully powered Spectre. No way he can beat them.
how can spectre be full powerd when the Presence is dead.
lucifer and Michael you really thing they can do what LT can
KgKg
I didn't say these people can beat celetrials I said a celestrial.
a is singular. It means one, ono.
1 you know, the number that comes before 2.
These people at their most powerful can each take a celestrial.
And yes I know how powerful a celestrial is.
I say they can.
So don't come at me with anymore nonsense like they can't do sh#t, cause they "can" do a hell of a lot. 😎 😒
Originally posted by kgkg
how can spectre be full powerd when the Presence is dead.lucifer and Michael you really thing they can do what LT can
Is it this damn hard to believe that either Lucifer or Michael can match, if not beat, the Living Tribunal? I mean, they were the favorites by the Presence himself and were the best creation by him. It is also said that no one's equal to them and that God is the only one above them. Heck, if Im not mistaken, God even named Lucifer as his successor.
Both can create Universes by themsleves on a whim, and can create life and entire concepts such as "time" in scratch. Lucifer stood on ground zero of the demiurgic explosion that could wipe out the entire multiverse, and didnt even get a scratch. He can even beat God-like beings in his mortal form(by just using his brain. He's a devious bastard). And correct me if Im wrong but didn't Michael, once, just stared at a galaxy and it was instantly destroyed?
So to answer your question, yes Lucifer or Micheal can do what LT can(and even more IMO).
Now let me turn your question against you, do you really think LT can do what Lucifer or Micheal can?
Living Tribunal doesn't have a mortal form, and he doesn't "fight"
He is a judge, when he makes a ruling...it happens.
He doesn't create universes, he doesn't take lives, he doesn't decide who gets to live and who gets to die....all he does is police the multiverse to make sure that no threats to the multiverse as a whole rise to power...
Originally posted by Linkalicious
Living Tribunal doesn't have a mortal form, and he doesn't "fight"He is a judge, when he makes a ruling...it happens.
he does fight if he has to, it only happend once but you are rite about everything else.
he did battle Thanos with HOTU(who became god) and lost
other than that his ruling happens as you said.
Originally posted by Linkalicious
Ok so unless Lucifer or Michael = The Source....then LT rules how he see's fit.The only thing we can assume is that God is God...no matter what comic company you are talking about. The Source = TOAA in terms of power.
This is so wrong on many levels.
The Presence and the Great Beast are equal to the TOAA in terms of power.
Lucifer and Michael would ignore the source like it's beneath their attention. Lucifer especially would make a few lewd remarks about how inferior it is compared to him.
The combined endless are more powerful than the Source. And take a wild guess who they're afraid of in thier mulitverse?
Hint, Hint: There two of the most powerful beings second only to the Presence.
bleh. You're right, I have just about no knowledge of DC's horrendous cosmic beings. DC already makes their Earthbound heroes more ridiculous than I can believe.
Swap "The Source" with "The Prescence"
Then logic applies. THE God in one universe needs to be considered as strong as THE God in the other comic universe in order for comparisons to characters to apply.
The Presence and TOAA are equal, but Ive always had my doubts about this idea of the Presence and TOAA being one because of the reason that there should only be one God. I mean ofcourse here in our real world(or in the christian faith), there should only be one God. But this is only comics, it isnt real. How can you incorporate our beliefs into this piece of paper? Its concepts doesnt even apply to our world(e.g humans with superpowers), so who's to say that the concept of God in comics is different to our world(e.g The Presence and TOAA are not one but two separate Supreme Beings).
Another reason is.... Ive seen people here say that because the Presence and TOAA are one, then that means that the Living Tribunal is above all the beings in the multiverse, including Lucifer and Michael, because "God"(the supposed Presence and TOAA) made him in charge of it.
Well, that reasoning is wrong, because your only looking at what TOAA did. If your going to make this 2 beings into one, then you also should consider what the Presence did: Creating Michael and Lucifer as having NO equal and only God as above them.
Having said all that, if we link it all up, then the result will be: God created LT, Michael and Lucifer, with LT being above the 2 but at the same time the brothers are above LT.
Confusing isnt it? That is another reason why I disagree about The Presence and TOAA as being one.
I would probably say The Presence & TOAA are the same being which they are Abstracts of God(Jehovah), it is just hard to see God through The Presence, God himself first created a being The First of the Fallen His confidant and conscience, after a dispute God threw him into hell, The First is a part of God that he ripped out of himself. The First of the Fallen and The Great Beast are probably the same being (Satan). this would fit in with The Great Beast being here before The Presence because he is a part of God that is ripped out, The Presence does = God because it is his holy presence. God works in mysterous ways indeed.
The Living Tribunal would probably be The Word the first angel, that does not mean he is more powerful then Lucifer and Michael. The Presence then created Lucifer Morningstar and Archangel Michael as his greatest creations more powerful then The Word. The Presence has just made the LT the gaurdian for the MU and The Spectre is for the DCU guardian.
The Brothers are above the LT and Spectre for now, The Spectre at Full Power could probably take them both out and if TOAA decided that the Living Tribunal should take them out he could probably give LT the power to do it as well. The Presence sent the Spectre at full power after The Great Beast because Satan was going to destroy all of creation. The Spectre lost and The Great Beast was headed for Heaven but The Presence stopped him.
i would rank them as :
1. God "The Presence" / Jesus Christ
2. The Great Beast "Satan"
3. Lucifer Morningstar / Archangel Michael
4. The Brothers
5. The Spectre / Living Tribunal / Archangel Gabriel
LT is too low.
it is for all practical purposes god. it has a fraction of gods infinite power, which is, surprise surprise, still in fact infinite.
the only powers above FP Spectre and Living Tribunal are in fact presence/toaa. and the only sway presence/toaa hold over those guys is the ability to remove their powers (admittedly a big hold).
but from how you describe the great beast it does seem to be above LT/Spectre.
this is all speculation of course...
yeah this is all speculation, i still think Lucifer and Michael are more powerful though then LT/Spectre full powered, Lucifer has punked out Spectre at least 2 times and Michael has stopped almost a full powered Spectre all by himself (the Spectre did almost win tho) if they both was at full power then i would rank it as so :
1. God "The Presence" TOAA / Jesus Christ
2. The Great Beast "Satan"
3. Lucifer Morningstar / Archangel Michael
4. The Spectre / Living Tribunal both full power
5. The Endless
6. The Brothers