Who in the Comic Universe can Defeat the Celestials and How?

I agree with ALMOST everything you said kevdude. Im just still not convinced about the Presence and TOAA being one. It doesnt make sense(well in the comic sense) base on what I wrote above.

And about the Spectre, If The Presence WANTED TO, Spectre could take out everybody in the multiverse including Luci, Mikey and Liviy(if he's in the DCU anyway), because he basically has God's powers(he's the wrath of God for crying out loud). God would just give him power greater than the three and BAM!! theyre history. Simple as that.

It all depends on God really, because he basically controls the Spectre's powers.

what didn't make sense??? the Living Tribunal has said TOAA powers come from on high(heaven), does it mean that TOAA is another one of The Presence's abstracts like the Decreator(Gods Shadow) etc... we don't really know, but what we do know is that "The Presence" is The Creator, no one is above him, the next 2 beings below him are Lucifer Morningstar and Archangel Michael,

i do agree if The Presence wanted to get rid of Lucifer and Michael he could use The Spectre at full power to do it but seeing both of them are his most favorite sons (next to Jesus Christ) he probably won't ever do that

The Presence has already preordain something to happen that Lucifer and Michael don't even know about yet, if u are reading the Lucifer comic book The Presence has left Heaven on his own free will and Michael is dead. how is he dead??? i thought he couldn't die, and if he isn't really dead then where is he??? is he with The Presence rit now?? does anyone know where michael is, i would like to know?? 🙂

In Marvel Universe it's:
1)LT
2)Eternity/Death/Infinity
3)Celestials

I need to read some of the newer stuff with Molecule man I guess. Last I read was Secret Wars 3 where Reese and Beyonder were joined. Is there any evidence that suggests that a cube being is above the top cosmic entitys?

Originally posted by kevdude
what didn't make sense??? the Living Tribunal has said TOAA powers come from on high(heaven), does it mean that TOAA is another one of The Presence's abstracts like the Decreator(Gods Shadow) etc... we don't really know, but what we do know is that "The Presence" is The Creator, no one is above him, the next 2 beings below him are Lucifer Morningstar and Archangel Michael.

Sorry, but is this statement in disagreement with me or what? I fail to see what you argument with me here. Yes, I know that TOAA's power comes "on high", and yes I know the Presence is the Creator. So? what exactly do this statements prove that TOAA and The Presence are one?

Originally posted by kevdude i do agree if The Presence wanted to get rid of Lucifer and Michael he could use The Spectre at full power to do it but seeing both of them are his most favorite sons (next to Jesus Christ) he probably won't ever do that[/B]

Yes, Im just trying to make a point about the Spectre's powers.

Originally posted by kevdude The Presence has already preordain something to happen that Lucifer and Michael don't even know about yet, if u are reading the Lucifer comic book The Presence has left Heaven on his own free will and Michael is dead. how is he dead??? i thought he couldn't die, and if he isn't really dead then where is he??? is he with The Presence rit now?? does anyone know where michael is, i would like to know?? 🙂 [/B]

And exactly who said that Michael cant die???? Im just merely trying to say that the Presence created Lucifer and Michael as the second most Powerful being in existence next to The Presence, which is another reason that TOAA and Presence couldnt be one, because TOAA placed LT in the same status as the brothers(read my post about it). This has nothing to do on whether or not Michael can die.

im not disagreeing with u at all im just trying to figure out who TOAA is? what i have read online and read in a few comics The Presence and TOAA are both the same.

and about The Spectres powers i was agreeing with u bro 🙂. and i was just wondering about michael dieing it has nothing to do with this forum. Death of the Endless has said before that the only beings she has no power over is The Presence, Lucifer and Michael.

also The Living Tribunal is TOAAs Word in the Marvel Multiverse the messenger for God. kinda like The Spectre and The Word the messenger for God in the DC Universe. the LT would probably be older then the brothers but not more powerful, this does not mean LT is no push over he is one of the most powerful angels created.

Originally posted by dave315
Is there any evidence that suggests that a cube being is above the top cosmic entitys?

None. Cube beings like Kubik and Shaper of Worlds are below abstract beings, in power and importance. 😮

i like the fantastic four but their comic book has a lot to answer for firstly they completely ret-conned the whole beyonder story in ff319 which was totally ludicrous to me and ruined the whole secret wars affair.During the entire series the beyonder was not only shown to be more powerful than any other being but was described constantly by the writer as having millions of times more power than the rest of the multi verse combined.He was shown and stated to be way above galactus,lt and the celestials then ff#319 comes along and says this was all nonsense and that he is only a bit more powerful than the mm and between them they are as powerful as a complete cosmic cube.Then in ff27 new series they change this again and somehow have the mm being separate from beyonder even though they joined to form kosmos and now he is more powerful than the beyondr the whole saga is just a complete mess and don't get me started on sue and exitar:-).

Yeah paolo, that does sound lame. I haven't read ff27 but it sounds like they messed up the whole story.
What happened with Exitar anyway?

I agree with much of what GalacticStorm said.

Molecule Man is so over-rated. the guy started off as just
another FF villian, then with Secret Wars I, he was made
more powerful, though not by much (he still was nothing
to Galactus).

But then comes along this uber-bulls*** known as Secret
Wars II, and suddenly this annoying pest ebcomes the most
powerful being in the universe after Beyonder.

Thankfully marvel retconned him, sp that he, and Beyonder,
became nothing but incomplete Cosmic Cubes.

But about Molecule Man and Cosmic Cubes, even if he is
more powerful than a full Comic Cube, that doesn't mean he
is on the level of a Cosmic Being. The fact that as a human,
he is capable of a greater imaginination doesn't translate into
a greater power level.

As GalacticStorm pointed out, the Cosmic Cube's powers are
mostly illusion, illusions which last only a short time, and which
don't extend beyond Earth and maybe a few planets beyond.
That's nothing compared to a Celestial, whose powers are atleast
on a solar system level.

And though Molecule Man's human mind may give him greater
imagination that a Cosmic Cube in using his powers, his mind
is still a human mind, with it's own limiations, limitaions which
the Celestials don't have. Also, as I said above, greater human
imagination doesn't mean greater power levels. Magnet, as a
human, is I'm sure capable of imagining all sorts of things to do
with his powers (like control the Sun's magnetic field), but that
doesn't mean he can.

Besdies Eternity and Deathg, I think a fully powered Galactus
can defeat one or two, but I don't think much beyond that.

Phoenix is tough, since she has shown the powerful levels enough
to destroy a solar system, and I heard she is the embodiment of
all life yet to be born, so maybe she is more powerful than a
Celestial, when not confined to a human body?

And yes GalacticStorm, that Franklin Richards thing does seem
to be bulls***, doesn't it?

Originally posted by paolo2134
i like the fantastic four but their comic book has a lot to answer for firstly they completely ret-conned the whole beyonder story in ff319 which was totally ludicrous to me and ruined the whole secret wars affair.During the entire series the beyonder was not only shown to be more powerful than any other being but was described constantly by the writer as having millions of times more power than the rest of the multi verse combined.He was shown and stated to be way above galactus,lt and the celestials then ff#319 comes along and says this was all nonsense and that he is only a bit more powerful than the mm and between them they are as powerful as a complete cosmic cube.Then in ff27 new series they change this again and somehow have the mm being separate from beyonder even though they joined to form kosmos and now he is more powerful than the beyondr the whole saga is just a complete mess and don't get me started on sue and exitar:-).

Maybe the changes are annoying, but Secret Wars II Beyonder was
simply intolerable, and not just because of his funky 70's look.

Living Trubunal, Phoenix Force, Eternity, Oblivion, Infinity, Death, the one who has Gauntlet, Franklin Richards (with his true potential power), these beings are for sure that would beat Celestials .

Originally posted by Synchro
Is it this damn hard to believe that either Lucifer or Michael can match, if not beat, the Living Tribunal? I mean, they were the favorites by the Presence himself and were the best creation by him. It is also said that no one's equal to them and that God is the only one above them. Heck, if Im not mistaken, God even named Lucifer as his successor.

Both can create Universes by themsleves on a whim, and can create life and entire concepts such as "time" in scratch. Lucifer stood on ground zero of the demiurgic explosion that could wipe out the entire multiverse, and didnt even get a scratch. He can even beat God-like beings in his mortal form(by just using his brain. He's a devious bastard). And correct me if Im wrong but didn't Michael, once, just stared at a galaxy and it was instantly destroyed?

So to answer your question, yes Lucifer or Micheal can do what LT can(and even more IMO).

Now let me turn your question against you, do you really think LT can do what Lucifer or Micheal can?

God doesn't have the succesor, he is eternal, he is forever to rule and when it comes to God, all beings are nothing compared to him.

kevdude: aight! I misunderstood you, sorry about that.

Xplosive: Ah Well!! Thats why I said "If Im not mistaken". I lost most of my Lucifer issues to really confirm it, its just that I always remember God saying it. But hey, maybe Im really wrong.

Strangely enough, I havent answered the question of the thread yet. Hmm... Who in the Comic Universe huh?, not just the MU. If thats the case:

Beings who can beat one or two (or even half) of the Celestials(off the top of the dome):
Eternity
Death
Anti-Monitor
Full-Powered Galactus
Parallax
Ion
Phoenix Force
The Endless
The Source
Infinity
Oblivion
Franklin Richards at his Full Potential(I reall think he can do it)
Some of the Angelic Host

Beings who can beat the whole Celestials:
TOAA
The Presence
Lucifer
Michael
The Living Tribunal
The Spectre(If God wanted to)
The Great Evil Beast
Pre-retconned Beyonder
Elaine Belloc(I suppose)
Anyone with the IG
Anyone with the HOTU

where did the idea that Galactus could beat a Celestial come from? Is there any evidence in any books? Galactus often fights obviously weaker beings and although he is usually victorious it often takes him a reasonable amount of effort. He even agreed to not fight Tyrant because it was too evenly matched.
Even when all the sky fathers -Odin-Zeus-ect.. combined their might the celestials defeated them without much effort. That would have given Galactus a serious fight.
Thor attacked Arishem with everthing he had and if I remember correctly the Celestial didn't even notice!!! If that had been Galactus he would have more than noticed, it would have caused him pain.
Didn't Galactus once say he didn't think it was possible to destroy a Celestial?

The Phoenix Force is just below the IG. It could wipe out all of the Celestials.

Originally posted by dave315
where did the idea that Galactus could beat a Celestial come from? Is there any evidence in any books? Galactus often fights obviously weaker beings and although he is usually victorious it often takes him a reasonable amount of effort. He even agreed to not fight Tyrant because it was too evenly matched.
Even when all the sky fathers -Odin-Zeus-ect.. combined their might the celestials defeated them without much effort. That would have given Galactus a serious fight.
Thor attacked Arishem with everthing he had and if I remember correctly the Celestial didn't even notice!!! If that had been Galactus he would have more than noticed, it would have caused him pain.
Didn't Galactus once say he didn't think it was possible to destroy a Celestial?

The reason why Galactus appears significantly weaker, is because
he has been over-exposed and badly written, largely because he
became too popular.

The orginal Galactus from what I've seen was suppose to be
extremely powerful, so that only the Ultimate Nullifier was able
to lead to his defeat.

Marvel ruined Galactus, just as they are trying to ruin the other
Cosmic Beings with their Infinity Gauntlet/HOTU/Franklin
Richards-being-superpowerful/Galactus's Death bull-s***! They
just won't give up until they have shown every Cosmic Being
beaten and humiliated by some seemingly lower creature, usually
Thanos. It's stupid and annoying.

True.

In earth x galactus siglehandedly killed a couple of celestials. One with a weapon of his and the other under his own personal power

Exitar, Arishem, The One Above All Celestials > Molecule Man

MM might be more powerful than all other cube beings, but still below beings like the Celestials and Galactus. Even Beyonder was giving MM trouble in their fight; MM won be not with ease. He could give a Celestial trouble but guys like Arishem, Exitar, and The One Above All Celestials are more powerful than Molecule Man.

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Spectre is not equal to LT. The Brother deal has been reckonned as tools of LT and Spectre.

TOAA/Presence/Great Beast
LT/Michael/Lucifer
Source
Eternity/Infinity/Death

Spectre's level varies. Presence could empower him to kill Lucifer or Michael. On average however, he's not that powerful. He's a member of the JSA is he not?

Argue all you want to about Lucifer and Michael being more powerful than LT, but they've been vulnerable to minor gods before (Fenris, Japanese gods, etc.)

I chose The Anti-Moniter.