Originally posted by JPeg87
You idiots.You were so into the Star Wars double trilogy that you didn't even understand wtf the Matrix is.
Logically, the WHOLE STAR WARS UNIVERSE is IN the Matrix. Neo controls EVERYTHING even better in the Matrix.
Anakin isn't a creation of God, he's a creation of the Architect. And only the true chosen one (Neo) has seen the Architect in all the versions of the Matrix.
Neo > Anakin
Plus, Anakin cannot come out of the Matrix to fight Neo. So you can't say that he's better outside of the Matrix.
Plus, Padmé Amidala is uglier than Trinity. (I didn't say Trinity is hotter than Padmé, as in "they're hot", because they are both not hot.)
You're all welcome.
People like you must exist so people like me and Fishy can be right all the damn time.
The whole Star Wars galaxy isn't in the Matrix. The Matrix exists roughly half a century or so after our time on earth. As for SW, what part of "Long time ago in a galaxy far far away" did you misintepret? Oh, wait.... you must have been so into the Matrix that you missed that in every damn SW intro.
Also, God isn't the Force, and it's only thought that Anakin is a conception of teh Force itself, not God. And that is not even proven. So you're logic not only sucks, your information is wrong.
And if your whole argument for Neo being better than Anakin is only with Anakin being IN the Matrix, you just prove over again what a ***** Neo really is without his cyber powers. So do us a favor and go wear some black skintight leather, hang out in some fetish nightclub and listen to techno and Rob Zombie while going 'Whoa" and having a Trilogy that makes less sense than Anne Frank at a Nüremberg rally.
Here's your sign, fanboy:
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
People like you must exist so people like me and Fishy can be right all the damn time.The whole Star Wars galaxy isn't in the Matrix. The Matrix exists roughly half a century or so after our time on earth. As for SW, what part of "Long time ago in a galaxy far far away" did you misintepret? Oh, wait.... you must have been so into the Matrix that you missed that in every damn SW intro.
Also, God isn't the Force, and it's only thought that Anakin is a conception of teh Force itself, not God. And that is not even proven. So you're logic not only sucks, your information is wrong.
And if your whole argument for Neo being better than Anakin is only with Anakin being IN the Matrix, you just prove over again what a ***** Neo really is without his cyber powers. So do us a favor and go wear some black skintight leather, hang out in some fetish nightclub and listen to techno and Rob Zombie while going 'Whoa" and having a Trilogy that makes less sense than Anne Frank at a Nüremberg rally.
Here's your sign, fanboy:
First of all, we don't know either when the Matrix happens or had happened for the last 7 times. But we know where, and it's on Earth, which is part of the universe.
Second of all, he (Anakin) is not a creation of God, like we said before. And if he's a conception of the Force, it is the Architect that created the Force. It is the Architect that has built EVERYTHING in the Matrix. The whole phuking Star Wars galaxy is in the universe. The whole universe is part of the Matrix.
Third of all, do you remember when Neo stopped the Sentinels outside of the Matrix, (Matrix: Reloaded) next to the Nebuchadnezzar? Well, here you go, he's outside of the Matrix and still pwning with "cyber powers" as you say. ONLY THE Chosen One can use such powers outside the Matrix. It is Neo that uses these powers. How can Anakin use these powers out of the Matrix if there's only 1 Chosen One that already uses them?
You're all still welcome.
P.S.: Darth Janus, I will dress in black skintight leather, hang out in some fetish nightclub and listen to techno and Rob Zombie while going 'Whoa" and having a Star Wars Trilogy that makes less sense than Anne Frank at a Nüremberg rally, and be very proud of it!
Morpheus says this in the first of the "Matrix" series, more or less:
"You think it's 1999. But really it's closer to 2099."
Thus, we do know when it happened. As to the rest of your, post, I'm truly sorry, but I didn't really read it, sir. No offense meant. I just thought I'd set you straight on that one point. You might be a nice guy.
Originally posted by Darth L. Dipsit
Morpheus says this in the first of the "Matrix" series, more or less:
"You think it's 1999. But really it's closer to 2099."
Thus, we do know when it happened. As to the rest of your, post, I'm truly sorry, but I didn't really read it, sir. No offense meant. I just thought I'd set you straight on that one point. You might be a nice guy.
How can we know that Star Wars doesn't happen in 1999?
It does say "A long time ago...", but a long time ago from when exactly? Please, continue reading, yes I am a nice man.
Originally posted by JPeg87
First of all, we don't know either when the Matrix happens or had happened for the last 7 times. But we know where, and it's on Earth, which is part of the universe.Second of all, he (Anakin) is not a creation of God, like we said before. And if he's a conception of the Force, it is the Architect that created the Force. It is the Architect that has built EVERYTHING in the Matrix. The whole phuking Star Wars galaxy is in the universe. The whole universe is part of the Matrix.
Third of all, do you remember when Neo stopped the Sentinels outside of the Matrix, (Matrix: Reloaded) next to the Nebuchadnezzar? Well, here you go, he's outside of the Matrix and still pwning with "cyber powers" as you say. ONLY THE Chosen One can use such powers outside the Matrix. It is Neo that uses these powers. How can Anakin use these powers out of the Matrix if there's only 1 Chosen One that already uses them?
You're all still welcome.
P.S.: Darth Janus, I will dress in black skintight leather, hang out in some fetish nightclub and listen to techno and Rob Zombie while going 'Whoa" and having a Star Wars Trilogy that makes less sense than Anne Frank at a Nüremberg rally, and be very proud of it!
That example you gave is exactly why the Matrix movie does not make sense and is therefor wrong.
You see it in Reloaded you hear Sion has fallen a few times and always been rebuild, Neo gets the chance to do the same. You see Neo using powers he is only supposed to have in the Matrix outside of the Matrix (seeing as its supposed to be a realistic movie this shouldn't happen if the following is wrong) And then there is the random guy appearing in the train station in Enter the Matrix saying "I wonder how long it will take this time, before Sion falls again.", plus and this is most important the fact that according to somebody don't remember who 1% or something like that of the Matrix people would not accept the matrix as real. These people could be released because of that and well could have a real life.
Also in Revolutions Smith goes outside of the Matrix how could he do that? You can't transfer bits into the real world they would just disappear not exist... But bits to bits, even when going to other systems or computers is very possible.
Now tell me all those things put together could IMO only lead you to one conclusion, the Matrix is inside another Matrix. Meaning that if 1% goes free things can just be reset and the circle starts again, right? Absolutely brilliant effective it should work prevent problems and the machines could live their life or something like that.
Then in Revolutions nothing like that is said anymore, everything that has been mentioned disappears and it becomes this worthless epic final battle between Neo and the Machines.
That makes no sense, it just makes no sense... The Matrix does not make sense. Neo does not make sense, nothing makes sense about it anymore. The movie should be destroyed. These are clear movie mistakes and have nothing to do with a fictional universe, the movies have become worthless because of that. And the Matrix will be destroyed by somebody that makes sense.
Now I agree that if Reloaded and Revolutions would not have been made Neo would have had a chance, but they were so they don't make sense and Neo doesn't make sense anymore. Any SW character wins by default
I conclude this :
---
If a fight should happen between Neo and Anakin, we must agree on one thing : the fight has to happen at the same place and at the same time.
Logically, the only place for this event to happen is INSIDE The Matrix, because Anakin cannot come out of The Matrix.
There is only 1 Chosen One in the Matrix, and only HE can meet and see the Architect (creator of the matrix). This proves that Neo is the true Chosen One in this case.
You should know that Neo can :
- Fly and move at an extremely high speed.
- Stop at least 100 bullets being shot at him. (Matrix: Reloaded)
- Dodge bullets and Agent punches at an extremely high speed.
This means that if Anakin would try to hit Neo with his light saber, then Neo would have already knocked him out with a punch, due to his extremely high speed at dodging and moving. If Anakin tried to throw him away with his not-so-strong-and-well-mastered Force, well, that wouldn't do much to Neo, because he has suffered from harder hits and still lived. (Example: The last fight versus Agent Smith, when Smith grabs Neo and throws him from the sky through the under the ground).
So, Neo > Anakin.
---
If somehow, Anakin would manage to swallow the Red Pill and come out of the Matrix, well, unless Neo can't use his same powers outside of the Matrix as he does inside, then Anakin will simply need to use the Force to knock him out.
But, Neo does stop the machines at the end of Matrix: Reloaded, so this proves that he can use powers outside of the Matrix.
So, Neo > Anakin.
---
Win for Neo.
You're all still very welcome.
Originally posted by JPeg87
I conclude this :---
If a fight should happen between Neo and Anakin, we must agree on one thing : the fight has to happen at the same place and at the same time.
Logically, the only place for this event to happen is [b]INSIDE The Matrix
, because Anakin cannot come out of The Matrix.There is only 1 Chosen One in the Matrix, and only HE can meet and see the Architect (creator of the matrix). This proves that Neo is the true Chosen One in this case.
You should know that Neo can :
- Fly and move at an extremely high speed.
- Stop at least 100 bullets being shot at him. (Matrix: Reloaded)
- Dodge bullets and Agent punches at an extremely high speed.This means that if Anakin would try to hit Neo with his light saber, then Neo would have already knocked him out with a punch, due to his extremely high speed at dodging and moving. If Anakin tried to throw him away with his not-so-strong-and-well-mastered Force, well, that wouldn't do much to Neo, because he has suffered from harder hits and still lived. (Example: The last fight versus Agent Smith, when Smith grabs Neo and throws him from the sky through the under the ground).
So, Neo > Anakin.
---
If somehow, Anakin would manage to swallow the Red Pill and come out of the Matrix, well, unless Neo can't use his same powers outside of the Matrix as he does inside, then Anakin will simply need to use the Force to knock him out.
But, Neo does stop the machines at the end of Matrix: Reloaded, so this proves that he can use powers outside of the Matrix.
So, Neo > Anakin.
---
Win for Neo.
You're all still very welcome. [/B]
You are ignoring everything I said, just so you won't have to argue with it. Let me say it again
MATRIX MAKES NO SENSE, NEO MAKES NO SENSE. Anakin makes sense.. Star Wars makes sense. Star Wars wins... Read my previous post the long one in this thread and you will see that Neo can not and will not win.
Originally posted by Fishy
That example you gave is exactly why the Matrix movie does not make sense and is therefor wrong.You see it in Reloaded you hear Sion has fallen a few times and always been rebuild, Neo gets the chance to do the same. You see Neo using powers he is only supposed to have in the Matrix outside of the Matrix (seeing as its supposed to be a realistic movie this shouldn't happen if the following is wrong) And then there is the random guy appearing in the train station in Enter the Matrix saying "I wonder how long it will take this time, before Sion falls again.", plus and this is most important the fact that according to somebody don't remember who 1% or something like that of the Matrix people would not accept the matrix as real. These people could be released because of that and well could have a real life.
Also in Revolutions Smith goes outside of the Matrix how could he do that? You can't transfer bits into the real world they would just disappear not exist... But bits to bits, even when going to other systems or computers is very possible.
Now tell me all those things put together could IMO only lead you to one conclusion, the Matrix is inside another Matrix. Meaning that if 1% goes free things can just be reset and the circle starts again, right? Absolutely brilliant effective it should work prevent problems and the machines could live their life or something like that.
Then in Revolutions nothing like that is said anymore, everything that has been mentioned disappears and it becomes this worthless epic final battle between Neo and the Machines.
That makes no sense, it just makes no sense... The Matrix does not make sense. Neo does not make sense, nothing makes sense about it anymore. The movie should be destroyed. These are clear movie mistakes and have nothing to do with a fictional universe, the movies have become worthless because of that. And the Matrix will be destroyed by somebody that makes sense.
Now I agree that if Reloaded and Revolutions would not have been made Neo would have had a chance, but they were so they don't make sense and Neo doesn't make sense anymore. Any SW character wins by default
By the way, here you're not talking about a fight between Anakin and Neo, you're just trying to ridiculize the Matrix trilogy, saying that it doesn't make sense.... Now if your intentions to this argument was to try to prove that Anakin > Neo, then it's not good.
Originally posted by Fishy
You are ignoring everything I said, just so you won't have to argue with it. Let me say it againMATRIX MAKES NO SENSE, NEO MAKES NO SENSE. Anakin makes sense.. Star Wars makes sense. Star Wars wins... Read my previous post the long one in this thread and you will see that Neo can not and will not win.
I hope you remember that we are not arguing about which movie makes more or less sense, we're arguing on who would win a fight that happens between Neo and Anakin.
[Edit:] you should do a "Star Wars' sense vs. Matrix's sense" thread for that 😉
Well thats basic the essence of this thread isn't it? Which chosen one is more powerful which one could beat the other? Seeing as both have some things working for them and both of them somethings working against them I have to look at which would logically win.
Logically Neo would not really exist as a chosen one, just as one chosen to do some things then die like the rest. Anakin was chosen to kill the Sith, he was the real chosen one here, the real one that gained power that took it. Neo is nothing like that, he doesn't make a lot of sense. Therefor Anakin wins
Originally posted by Fishy
Well thats basic the essence of this thread isn't it? Which chosen one is more powerful which one could beat the other? Seeing as both have some things working for them and both of them somethings working against them I have to look at which would logically win.Logically Neo would not really exist as a chosen one, just as one chosen to do some things then die like the rest. Anakin was chosen to kill the Sith, he was the real chosen one here, the real one that gained power that took it. Neo is nothing like that, he doesn't make a lot of sense. Therefor Anakin wins
Either you love Star Wars too much and think that destroying the Sith means everything and will never agree on Star Wars being weaker than something else, or you won't understand the only scenario that could happen for a fight between Anakin and Neo. Therefore, I will leave you in your beliefs with your Star Wars figurines.
You're missing the point. Fishy is still right - you two are trying to discuss apples and oranges, but Fishy is the only one who realizes it, and he's trying to help you understand. You may be serious about this thread - your thoughts here are lucid and well-versed - however, if Anakin is taken out of his environment and his MIND is placed in an environment where the Force does not exist and his opponent is superhuman, of course he will lose. However, this concept does not work because the Matrix, in this case, is self-contradicting - THIS FIGHT IS A PHYSICAL BATTLE. It is NOT a virtual reality fight (Anakin's power DEPENDS on the Force). So, they cannot be in the Matrix. That means that Neo must go to the world of the Force - but he has not Force potential as known because his world is DIFFERENT (Neo's power also DEPENDS on the Matrix). So, neither scenario works. If you were to make some adjustments to the question (for example, say that in the fight Neo has all of the powers that he has in the Matrix, except in the Star Wars universe), then the idea might have a chance. All that is needed to see the correction to the flaw is some simple transitive logic.
Fishy also made other important points that I have left out, but I think that this is the most fundamental one.
Originally posted by JPeg87
I conclude this :---
If a fight should happen between Neo and Anakin, we must agree on one thing : the fight has to happen at the same place and at the same time.
Logically, the only place for this event to happen is [b]INSIDE The Matrix
, because Anakin cannot come out of The Matrix.There is only 1 Chosen One in the Matrix, and only HE can meet and see the Architect (creator of the matrix). This proves that Neo is the true Chosen One in this case.
You should know that Neo can :
- Fly and move at an extremely high speed.
- Stop at least 100 bullets being shot at him. (Matrix: Reloaded)
- Dodge bullets and Agent punches at an extremely high speed.This means that if Anakin would try to hit Neo with his light saber, then Neo would have already knocked him out with a punch, due to his extremely high speed at dodging and moving. If Anakin tried to throw him away with his not-so-strong-and-well-mastered Force, well, that wouldn't do much to Neo, because he has suffered from harder hits and still lived. (Example: The last fight versus Agent Smith, when Smith grabs Neo and throws him from the sky through the under the ground).
So, Neo > Anakin.
---
If somehow, Anakin would manage to swallow the Red Pill and come out of the Matrix, well, unless Neo can't use his same powers outside of the Matrix as he does inside, then Anakin will simply need to use the Force to knock him out.
But, Neo does stop the machines at the end of Matrix: Reloaded, so this proves that he can use powers outside of the Matrix.
So, Neo > Anakin.
---
Win for Neo.
You're all still very welcome. [/B]
First off, no one's agreeing with anything. You're arranging your own argument with your own premises and taking the original idea dna making it your own. You are the one saying "We need to agree on something" and then just saying it is. Hardly logical in itself.
Secondly, your logical premise here "Anakin CANNOT come out of the Matrix", is conditional. It operates under the ASSUMPTION that Anakin's reality is a creation of the Matrix itself. Personally, I think you are taking the position of Neo and the Matrix itself way too personally, and citing prophecy and predestination, both of which are horrible logical points for either side.
Your next premise operates under the ASSUMPTION that there is a Chosen One at all. It assumes this person's worth and that that worth would remain the same if Anakin were to exist within the same system. It also assumes the Architect would have interest in Neo and not in Anakin Skywalker. Therefore, this proves nothing, its merely a reflection of what happened according to a plot set in a period where Anakin would not exist and this thread would itself make no sense. In other words, you're regurgitating plot elements as though they are permanent facts.
As for what DC Comic-esque powers Neo might have, there is no need to bulletpoint them. Anyone who replies to this thread should have a basic knowledge of Neo. Hell, any person who isn't living ina cave right now knows of Neo.
Another thing- can you explain to us, since you obviously believe yourself to be the intelligent, knowing one here and expert on the Matrix and all that is NOT Star Wars... explain to us how Neo can use ANY powers outside of the Matrix itself as a human being. Unless he was never really out of it?
Lastly, this... "Neo > Anakin" may look like some kind of argument statement, but it isn't neccessarily true. Try structuring a decent argument next time.
You're very welcome.
Secondly, your logical premise here "Anakin CANNOT come out of the Matrix", is conditional. It operates under the ASSUMPTION that Anakin's reality is a creation of the Matrix itself. Personally, I think you are taking the position of Neo and the Matrix itself way too personally, and citing prophecy and predestination, both of which are horrible logical points for either side.
My esteemed cohort couldn't have said it any more verbosely, but I'll simplify it for you: Who says Anakin is in the Matrix? How is the idea that the Star Wars galaxy is part of the Matrix logical? How does it make sense at all?
Want to know the answer?
It doesn't.
Originally posted by JPeg87
How can we know that Star Wars doesn't happen in 1999?It does say "A long time ago...", but a long time ago from when exactly? Please, continue reading, yes I am a nice man.
It says a long time ago from 1977, when Star Wars came out. Just for the record, JPeg87, your a dumb@ss. I just thought you should know.