Originally posted by olympian
About the invisible plane attacking Juggernaut, i thought you mentioned a physical attack. I need to see more of this tp ability to make a more correct statement.
It happened recently when the IP suddenly became aware. Apparently it wasn't technology but really an alien. It was destroying Gateway City and the JLA was called in. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman were all submerged in a fantasy world. Martian Manhunter was unsuccessfully trying to telepathically freeing them. IP unfortunately countered every move.
And yes a physical attack by the IP would be completely fruitless. It's more of a mesh between Invisible Woman's forcefields and Green Lantern's ring.
"You don't understand. The IP has uber-telepathy. Which Juggs is incredibly vulnerable to. And Juggs cannot do anything about since the IP is virtually undetectable."
Thats where my doubts wer. So let me rephrase. If she engages in a physical match, i see Juggernaut taking the edge. Hes physically above her overall, with the exception for speed.
Using her arsenal, she gets the clear edge, the same way Thor would. Since they have the possibility of not only one, but more long range attacks.
" Come on. Juggs has a HUGE ego. He sees a bikini-wielding woman wielding a shiny rope he'll let wrap around him without resistence. He's AlWAYS been an ass. "
I wasent talking about his personality. More like the portrail of the lasso. Juggernaut is also godlike in powerset, and powered by a high level godlike being.
About him being an ass and having a ego that humbles everyone else. I wouldnt disagree. He`s even more than Herakles in that regard, and thats telling something.
"So yes DC Hercules has lifted the Earth for a brief time. Which suggests Diana can do better."
But it was it stated in DC continuity or you mean purely the myth feat ?
I seem to recall he did lifted/held Paradise Island after Atlas in that series. Again. Wonder Woman # 58 if im not wrong.
About her being stronger. My opinion is different. But that shouldnt be a surprise.
Originally posted by olympian
Thats where my doubts wer. So let me rephrase. If she engages in a physical match, i see Juggernaut taking the possible edge. Hes physically above her overall, with the exception for speed.
He's MUCH more durable. And his strength is on par with hers. That I'll agree with.
Originally posted by olympian
If she uses her arsenal, then she gets the edge, the same way Thor would. Since they have the possibility of not only one, but more long range attacks.
That's precisely what I am arguing.
Originally posted by olympian
But it was it stated in DC continuity or you mean purely the myth feat ?
It was stated in DC continuity. EVERYTHING that happened in myth happened in DC continuity. Except AFTER the Golden Girdle trial. He swayed there and that.
Originally posted by olympian
I seem to recall he did lifted/held Paradise Island after Atlas in that series. Again. Wonder Woman # 58 if im not wrong.
Actually the poor guy was forced to support the entire island for three thousand years as punishment for the raping of the Amazons.
Originally posted by olympian
About her being stronger. My opinion is different. But that shouldnt be a surprise.
I don't see how it should be. True she doesn't have many strength feats because she's not a man who has to show his strength and machoness daily but the gods specifically stated and granted her the "strength of Gaea GREATER than that of Hercules"
"He's MUCH more durable. And his strength is on par with hers. That I'll agree with. "
yup.
"That's precisely what I am arguing"
I have to as well, knowing more about the Ip. Good call.
"Actually the poor guy was forced to support the entire island for three thousand years as punishment for the raping of the Amazons"
Yes, then he held it without being in rock formation in Wonder Woman # 14. I count as a second time since it was all falling apart and he was show to save Hypollita before helding the weigth once more. In War of the Gods, i know that Atlas was helding it too. Wonder Woman # 58, im sure its that one. Atlas disappears, Hercules says something in the lines of " Not again, Atlas! " and helds it in his place.
"I don't see how it should be. True she doesn't have many strength feats because she's not a man who has to show his strength and machoness daily but the gods specifically stated and granted her the "strength of Gaea GREATER than that of Hercules"
Its not because one is a man and another is a woman. Sure Hercules stick its alot more related with strenght. But Wonder Woman is cleary a high level brick. I just consider her very sligthy below Hercules in raw strenght. Hercules both in the myths, and comics has better feats, plenetary included. That being said while there is a line by Wonder Woman about her having strenght higher than Herakles itself, lets not forget Herk has already denied that claim, saying he was stronger in response.
Both have claims to fame. Post crisis they never fougth. If you go by the earth feat you already have a comparation. Wonder Woman with help could barely keep earth in orbit. (in the Obsidian saga iirc). And Herk lifted it.
The plane isn't allowed in this fight, just the two fighters.
I'd put Jug at least 40% stronger than WW, plus he isn't as slow as you'd think.
Of course people can dodge his attacks, but normal humans have dodged WW's. Hell, there's this slightly meta human guy who gave WW a decent run for her money, made her bleed with one 2ton punch.
WW only wins this because Jug is dumb, it really has nothing to do with her abilities or skill.
Otherwise, he'd curbstomp her.
Originally posted by long pig
The plane isn't allowed in this fight, just the two fighters.
The threadstarter didn't say so. The plane is kept in a hidden compartment in her costume.
Originally posted by long pig
I'd put Jug at least 40% stronger than WW, plus he isn't as slow as you'd think.
That's a tremedous overstatement.
The second phrase is a tremendous understatement. The guy is very slow. Captain America had no trouble dodging his blows. As did Spider-man
Originally posted by long pig
Of course people can dodge his attacks, but normal humans have dodged WW's. Hell, there's this slightly meta human guy who gave WW a decent run for her money, made her bleed with one 2ton punch.
Come on, longpig. Enough. Seriously. You and I know that fight was crap. As is Namor vs. Wolverine. Or Spider-Man vs. Thor. The fight is simply not credible. You're using that fight as a compromise for your lack of knowledge of Wonder Woman
The fight is SvFL. Period.
Originally posted by long pig
WW only wins this because Jug is dumb, it really has nothing to do with her abilities or skill.
Otherwise, he'd curbstomp her.
Actually it has do with her SPEED. And FLIGHT. And MAGIC.
Originally posted by olympian
Its not because one is a man and another is a woman. Sure Hercules stick its alot more related with strenght. But Wonder Woman is cleary a high level brick. I just consider her very sligthy below Hercules in raw strenght. Hercules both in the myths, and comics has better feats, plenetary included. That being said while there is a line by Wonder Woman about her having strenght higher than Herakles itself, lets not forget Herk has already denied that claim, saying he was stronger in response.
True Herc has much more strength feats. But I believe it's because of what his character is. "Let's see what Herc can lift next!".
And I think Hercules denied WW being stronger than him because he's a sexist bastard. Zeus himself said WW is stronger than his son. And Hercules obviously wasn't gonna let that slide.
Maybe we'll see a clear indicator in the future
Originally posted by olympian
Both have claims to fame. Post crisis they never fougth. If you go by the earth feat you already have a comparation. Wonder Woman with help could barely keep earth in orbit. (in the Obsidian saga iirc). And Herk lifted it.
The Obsidian Saga was a credible claim. However Hercules never had to deal with massive magics and the gravitational pull of the sun pulling the Earth to the Sun.
"And I think Hercules denied WW being stronger than him because he's a sexist bastard. Zeus himself said WW is stronger than his son. And Hercules obviously wasn't gonna let that slide.
Maybe we'll see a clear indicator in the future"
Both stated it on panel. He asked her two times in wotg to come down and prove it. Since they never fought post crisis and Herk has better feats than she does ill side with him. Until something else at DC about it shows and defines it for good. Mind you that the difference would never be huge. Overall she - is - more powerfull. Physically speaking, -speed aside- she never showed to be. And he has.
A nitpick. Didnt Herakles defeat Son of Vulcan in a physical match in that series?
"The Obsidian Saga was a credible claim. However Hercules never had to deal with massive magics and the gravitational pull of the sun pulling the Earth to the Sun."
Just the presumely physical forces or magical to keep it from crumbling i suposse. She was however helped by two other powerhouses while Herk did it by itself. Werent the other heroes on earth, like Manitu helping either? I see this as an indication of an edge where pure raw strenght its concerned.
Originally posted by olympian
"And I think Hercules denied WW being stronger than him because he's a sexist bastard. Zeus himself said WW is stronger than his son. And Hercules obviously wasn't gonna let that slide.Maybe we'll see a clear indicator in the future"
[QUOTE=4747891]Originally posted by olympian
[B]Both stated it on panel. He asked her two times in wotg to come down and prove it. Since they never fought post crisis and Herk has better feats than she does ill side with him. Until something else at DC about it shows and defines it for good. Mind you that the difference would never be huge. Overall she - is - more powerful. Physically speaking, speed aside she never showed to be. And he has.
Thus we cannot really tell. Maybe Jonah is really Hercules in disguise. Hell he's done it before.
Originally posted by olympian
Just the presumely physical forces or magical to keep it from crumbling i suposse. She was however helped by two other powerhouses while Herk did it by itself. I see this as an indication of an edge of pure raw strenght.
Not really. The magics were moving the earth towards the sun. And the gravitational pull of the sun was supplementing it. They had to deal the the mass of the Earth as well as the magics and gravity making the process ten times harder.
Same with the moon feat in the TT/JLA arc.
Herc held the Earth while it was practically docile. WW and her teammates had to deal with a moving Earth that was supplemented by gravity and magic. Is it easy to hold a still truck or 200 mph truck?
Originally posted by dawsey28
That's not completely true...... I was knowledgable about WW.
Or at least I thought I was. 😕
You are very knowledgeable about DC in general. Unlike the massive influx of Marvelites here.
I meant back last year. Jesus Christ. They knew damn near ZERO about her.
Some actually thought she couldn't fly. 😘
"Thus we cannot really tell. Maybe Jonah is really Hercules in disguise. Hell he's done it before."
Lets see. I didnt saw any indication yet of Rucka wanting to use him. Would be cool tho.
" Not really. The magics were moving the earth towards the sun. And the gravitational pull of the sun was supplementing it. They had to deal the the mass of the Earth as well as the magics and gravity making the process ten times harder. "
And didnt they had magical help with Manitu Raven? What about Flash lending cinetic energy to deal with the gravity iirc.
"Herc held the Earth while it was practically docile. WW and her teammates had to deal with a moving Earth that was supplemented by gravity and magic. Is it easy to hold a still truck or 200 mph truck?"
There are forces to overcome both ways. Wonder Woman had all kinds of help. Both magical and strenghtwise to act against the forces. He didnt. In the end who succeeded most? They wer stating to be losing it rigth after the first moments. It was kyle that bail them out that day.
Talking about planets going out of orbit. Herk and Thor at Marvel, in an armwrestle generated enought pressure to do it. And he was shown in a flasback helding the earth for Atlas as well.
"Olympian, god in heaven, EVERYONE on this forum was completely and utterly ignorant of WW before I arrived.
Some people believed that Spider-Man was stronger than her and that she could only reach 500 mph. I educated them. Harshly"
Your kidding right? Spider Man? People actually bought that crap?
Aquaman by himself its -alot- stronger than him, let alone Wonder Woman.
edit.
Correction: Flash was absorsing the cinetic energy more specifically. From what the story tells they wer providing counter force for the water earth had lost. They tried, eventually failed and Kyle showed up.
Off topic now, Draco. Has Poseidon been overtrow off his realm yet? After Zeus for Athena and Hades for Ares.