Originally posted by Lazerlike42
God did know that Satan (Lucifer is NOT the correct term and is very, very mistakenly taken to be the name of Satan) was going to turn against Him. He knew you were going to do the same. Satan was allowed to turn against God out of Love, as were you. It is a purely human expression to say that if you really love someone you will love them enough to let them go, and it is true. God wants us to be able to do what we want and to have freedom.When I was younger, we had a dog. He was inherited to my family, and they did not dislike him but he was more a burden than anything, and they did not love him. I did. They required him to spend his life chained up on a 6 foot leash, chained to a chair his entire life, other than when we walked him. This is not love. They took care of him, fed him, took him to the vet, and had him groomed, but they clearly did not love him.
When I was MUCH younger, too young to remember, my family had another dog that was not inherited and was their own. He was allowed to roam the house, and was not on a leash. They loved him. Now it made it so that he could harm them (by chewing stuff up, urinating on the carpet, etc.), or that he could get harmed (by going somewhere unsafe due to his lack of restraint). He eventually did get hurt; he escaped and got hit by a car and died.
The fact is, however, that the first dog was kept tied up out of a lack of love, whereas the second was let free out of love. This is the same with God. He lets us be free, and have free will. He lets us do this, even though we can hurt ourselves (by killing one another, by letting ourselves or others wind up in poverty, by making choices that send us to hell), and we can hurt Him (by rejecting Him, by persecuting those who believe in Him).
This is why suffering exists. Additionally, it exists because it doesn't matter! In the end the suffering of this earth does not matter one bit. We do not suffer on this earth out of punishment from God (other than those times He does choose to punish us), but the following example holds true. When a parent punishes a child, the parent knows the child is suffering. The parent does not stop the child's suffering because of this, because the parent knows that the suffering does not matter in the end. In the end, the child will learn something which will help it be safer and more succesful in life. The parent knows that the child will be better off in the end and that the suffering doesn't matter. God lets us suffer because it doesn't matter at all; only what comes after life truly matters.
Furthermore, it is not God that makes us suffer, but ourselves and Satan. We make choices to lead to our suffering, and Satan encourages us to make these choices. God cannot stop it because he is a righteous and faithful God. He has promised us all free will. If God chooses to keep people safe from the suffering caused by terrorists, then he is not following His promise to the terrorists that they may have free will. To do anything else requires God to play favorites, and to treat some different from others. He cannot because it is not righteous to do so, and it is not fair to treat me one way and you another. It is not right to promise Saddam Hussein free will and then go back on that promise because He does not like what Saddam is doing. That would be like a parent telling a young child that she can spend her $5 in birthday money on anything she wants, and then not letting her buy something because ithe parent does not like it, only much worse. You may say that the parent is only doing that because he or she is wiser than the child and is trying to protect the child, but that is a HUMAN reaction, one that is still wrong, and one that still requires the breaking of a promise. God is perfect and cannot break a promise as this would be imperfection and it would be wrong. Even the most minor wronghood is something God cannot do because He cannot do any wronghood, not matter how small.
Hell was not made for us. It was not made for humans. It was made for Satan and his demons (other fallen angels). The only way we can end up there is by telling God that we want to go there. By rejecting God, that is what we are telling Him. He made Heaven for us. This is the key. God has made two places.... Heaven, for us, and Hell, for Satan. Once we die we must go to one or the other. When we reject God, we reject His gift of Heaven. Why?
We can choose to be one of two things: dependant on God, or independant of Him. When we believe, we accept what He is, and we know that we are dependant on Him. When we choose not to believe, for whatever reason, whether we are mad at Him, or just belive He does not exist, we are saying that we are fine on our own. We are saying that we can take care of ourselves and don't need anyone to do it for us. Now some parents are different and cut children off earlier, but for most people, we reach the age where we are old enough to support ourselves, but our parents still want to pay for our haircuts and provide us with health insurance, and especially clothing and food. Most of the time we accept these things. Some teenagers become so set on being independant, and refuse to accept food, clothing, anything from their parents.
Even though these parents are forever standing with their hands out, food and clothing being offered freely, the children want to support themseleves. Why? Perhaps they don't want to feel bound to their rules. Perhaps they just want to feel like they are not dependant on them. Either way, the food is there, the clothes are there, but it is simply not taken.
When we say we are independant from God, this is what we are doing. He is literally standing there offering to us all He has to give, and we simply say we don't want it. Maybe we don't want to follow his rules. Do we say that a parent does not love us because they want us to folow rules? Of course not. We know that (other than a few crazy parents here and there) their rules are designed because they know what is best for us and their rules are for our own good, even if we don't understand why. [Did you know that God required the Jews to be circumcised on the 8th day of life? They did not know why, to the ancient people it seemed like a random rule; this does not mean it was not for their own good. Today, we know that the blood in a baby coagulates best on the 8th day. Not the 7 days before, none of the days after, but on the 8th day. God's rule was for their own good.] Nobody would say a parent does not love a child because the parent has rules. Maybe we are saying that we want to be independant from God. Either way, He is standing there, even more so He is walking up to us and asking us to take what He is offering and we are simply saying no!
God Loves you even now. You can say the most horrible things about Him and He still loves. There is nothing you can do that will turn him away from you. It is never too late, no matter what you have done. If you are stubborn, or won't turn to God because you have not for so long, it doesn't matter. He Loves you.... He Loves you.
God Bless You
wow.....
......You have said alot...Nothing of which i don't already know.....i used to believe strongly in christ...but eventually it just didn't matter to me...because when the end comes, it's here and my existence wouldn't make a difference at all....I believe that God is just an idea that man created...Who created Who? Did God really create us or Did we create God?....
Originally posted by AdventChild
wow.....
......You have said alot...Nothing of which i don't already know.....i used to believe strongly in christ...but eventually it just didn't matter to me...because when the end comes, it's here and my existence wouldn't make a difference at all....I believe that God is just an idea that man created...Who created Who? Did God really create us or Did we create God?....
Ahh, I have been wondering what you were...of course, once a believer...not bad, what was your reasons for leaving? Curiosity, doubt, "enlightenment"...
Why do all this good when you only have one life to do what ever you want...I don't want to be a slave to some "GOD" no matter how glamourous people want to make it look like...Serving God as a slave...it's as if we are only given two choices when we die in religious terms...#1. Become a slave to serve a superior being or a "GOD"....
or #2. Suffer for an eternity with satan and eventually die....
I'd rather suffer and die than to serve some one or a "GOD" and be a slave....
I just rather not believe in any of that....I rather not get involved in one's ideas or follow some fairy tale book.....
Originally posted by AdventChild
Why do all this good when you only have one life to do what ever you want...I don't want to be a slave to some "GOD" no matter how glamourous people want to make it look like...Serving God as a slave...it's as if we are only given two choices when we die in religious terms...#1. Become a slave to serve a superior being or a "GOD"....
or #2. Suffer for an eternity with satan and eventually die....
I'd rather suffer and die than to serve some one or a "GOD" and be a slave....
I just rather not believe in any of that....I rather not get involved in one's ideas or follow some fairy tale book.....
Enlightenment...I see. Would you care to debat this? I understand that the probability of you changing you mine, especially to an utter and complete stranger is slim to none, but i'm sure a good sparr would relax the muscles...
Originally posted by debbiejo
Why wouldn't you want to go good? Isn't it natural?