Fruits Of The Spirit...Who Has Them??

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I don't think finti wants or needs you your sympathy. In fact, I think this thread is about people who do good things JUST to go to heaven. If finti points out...in hundreds of threads....that he does not believe in god....then why does that mean that he doesn't care about other people?

Considering the overwhelming number of his posts that dispute a belief in a god, then his motivation to do things for others must be...well, selfless. Unlike most christians I know that have an end result in mind, finti seems to be doing these things out of genuine concern and compassion for those he cares about.

I think what I was trying to point out is, why would you want to do a good if there is nothing for you in return? If life has no after life, than what's the purpose of doing something if you cant lavish from your worldly actions? True, some christians do things just out of fear of losing heaven and gaining hell. And somethings are acceptable, for example the sacrament of reconciliation. However the thing that makes me curious is the fact that you do it out of love for other people...perhaps you are closer to christianity than you may have realized...

People do them because it brings them joy...Which I might add is one of the fruits of the spirit.

Originally posted by debbiejo
People do them because it brings them joy...Which I might add is one of the fruits of the spirit.

Which, of course, comes from God...

And we are all part of God. ✅

To bad others cant see our way...

Wait a minute...don't associate god with anything he need not be associated with. In fact, this brings me to an over whelming point on my part:

Would this god you hold in such high esteem refuse finti a place in eternal paradise because he didn't believe that this so called god's hypocritical teachings were the best route? I mean, finti helps people...makes them feel better...brings joy to their lives....askes nothing in return except a smile on their faces....and seeks no absolution. What is heaven worthy about that? And if you're answer is that "god said so"....then thats not too far above a kindergardener that says ..."because, etc, etc, etc." If god is a kindergardener, then he needs his naked ass slapped on national telivision. Maybe a new reality series...."I slapped god on the ass and lived to tell about it?"....for one million dollars

Like I said, we are all part of God...I would imagine finti will be there kicking and screaming.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
To bad others cant see our way...

In all honesty man, it has little to do with an inability to see your way. It has more to do with, at least in my case, a total melt down with your point of view...and an awakening of one's own ability to think for themselves. I apologize for that sounding arrogant or condescending. But, I spent my entire childhood having religion pounded...expressed....engrained....into me. And the only truth I found was hypocrisy. No one is more for your belief system than I am...seriously. It's nice to believe that we are all equal and harmonious. But that isn't true. And more often than not, it is religioous beliefs that illustrate that. It's pleasant to think that we are all capable of seeing past the ends of our noses....but we aren't. And it seems to me that the most convientient hiding place for those who can't see past their own faces is in the arms of religion...more specifically...this hypocritical christian religion that espouses one belief and then instills another. But, I have also experienced the dark side of the christian world view...and it isn't pleasant nor pretty.

Sure, it's all well and good to say that homosexuals(yeah...I'm giving in to the stereotype I've created for myself and brought up the subject.) are going to hell because their existance is contrary to the one god intended for us. But! A) what kind of intelligent being sets himself up for failure? B)What kind of sick world view requires that you set the rules in opposition to the natural urges you instill in a species and C)what has that got to do with the rule of law in a society that has been founded on free will?

If gay people are going to burn in hell for their "sins" then why make life more difficult for them now? Besides, religion has nothing to do with one person's relationship with god....and more to do with everyones' relationship with god. It is simply beyond belief for me that a non-homosexual could really care less about who I sleep with. I assure you, my nights aren't sleepless over who a christian sleeps with. Why? Because I couldn't care less. My relationship with god is just as personal as the next guys. It's honestly the biggest hurdle that the religious portion of this country has to get over! Your religion isn't an issue...why should my lack of one...or difference in...be an issue? We all deal with god on judgment day based on our own lives...not what someone else did to change it...deny it....exterminate it...replace it...sate it....or buy into it. MY god...is none of your buisness...and vice versa.

I think what I was trying to point out is, why would you want to do a good if there is nothing for you in return?

However the thing that makes me curious is the fact that you do it out of love for other people...perhaps you are closer to christianity than you may have realized...

Which, of course, comes from God...

If gay people are going to burn in hell for their "sins" then why make life more difficult for them now?

Originally posted by finti
[B]I dont need no price for myself, you see I dont have this christian selfish agenda of doing good to others just to benefit your own sake.

Your still missing the point. You don't do it for a price in the BROADENED since. You just do it because it is right. And the love toards another human being.

even if they like to think they do christians dont have a copyright for compassion. So the fact that good deeds must be a christian threat just show the arrogance of that religion

Christianity IS NOT A RELIGION. It is a way of life. It is the moral standards in which you base you life upon. To be "Christ like" is a model, not a set of rules. From Christianity stems Catholocism, and Baptisit, and Mormons, JW, etc. But since you don't do it for either of this, than they only logical exit is peace with one self.

no it comes from me and my personality

Which is meant to do all good and avoid all evil.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Wait a minute...don't associate god with anything he need not be associated with. In fact, this brings me to an over whelming point on my part:

Would this god you hold in such high esteem refuse finti a place in eternal paradise because he didn't believe that this so called god's hypocritical teachings were the best route? I mean, finti helps people...makes them feel better...brings joy to their lives....askes nothing in return except a smile on their faces....and seeks no absolution. What is heaven worthy about that? And if you're answer is that "god said so"....then thats not too far above a kindergardener that says ..."because, etc, etc, etc." If god is a kindergardener, then he needs his naked ass slapped on national telivision. Maybe a new reality series...."I slapped god on the ass and lived to tell about it?"....for one million dollars

Look, if in all sense, if there is a Heaven or Hell, Finiti would be the first person in there. You don't have to be Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Buddist, etc. to get into Heaven. You just have to do what's right follow the laws, unless the laws allow a wrong in which case you should not follow them. And BOOM, you have your self a tickect into heaven. But you seem to have yourself a stereotypical view of God. God isn't the one telling the Catholics and all religions at that matter to teach that all those who don't believe in God will burn in hell. He doesn't teach that based on your beliefs do you merit Heaven or Hell, but by your actions. If you follow this one rule "Do good, avoid evil." That's all it takes. Because everything else, ten commandments, doctrines, teachings, are details to help you understand what is good, and what is evil. That's it, it's that simple. When Christ said "My burden is light and my yolk sweet." he wasn't kidding.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Look, if in all sense, if there is a Heaven or Hell, Finiti would be the first person in there. You don't have to be Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Buddist, etc. to get into Heaven. You just have to do what's right follow the laws, unless the laws allow a wrong in which case you should not follow them. And BOOM, you have your self a tickect into heaven. But you seem to have yourself a stereotypical view of God. God isn't the one telling the Catholics and all religions at that matter to teach that all those who don't believe in God will burn in hell. He doesn't teach that based on your beliefs do you merit Heaven or Hell, but by your actions. If you follow this one rule "Do good, avoid evil." That's all it takes. Because everything else, ten commandments, doctrines, teachings, are details to help you understand what is good, and what is evil. That's it, it's that simple. When Christ said "My burden is light and my yolk sweet." he wasn't kidding.

Let me clear up a misconception you might have. I have no problem with god...0...none...zip. I have a problem with his "earthly" representatives and the hypocrisy. I haven't ruled out the fact that a supreme being or consciousness exists. But, I don't think he is particularly interested in what goes on in our lives. I guess I kind of look at it like the man in th eiron mask. If god exists, then some group of old white men have him locked in a tower somewhere; while they're out pretending to be him.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Let me clear up a misconception you might have. I have no problem with god...0...none...zip. I have a problem with his "earthly" representatives and the hypocrisy. I haven't ruled out the fact that a supreme being or consciousness exists. But, I don't think he is particularly interested in what goes on in our lives. I guess I kind of look at it like the man in th eiron mask. If god exists, then some group of old white men have him locked in a tower somewhere; while they're out pretending to be him.

The only thing I disagree with is the fact that God doesn't care. He does, I mean, and I know I use this example a lot but, if you own a pet you would care about it wouldn't you?

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
The only thing I disagree with is the fact that God doesn't care. He does, I mean, and I know I use this example a lot but, if you own a pet you would care about it wouldn't you?

I don't wanna argue with you, since we've resolved to get along, but I find that example to be a bit insulting. I know you're just using an example of a greater, more intelligent being having compassion for a lesser being. I mean, I'm no ones pet. And I'm not saying that a supposed supreme being doesn't care, but why would he punish human beings in such extreme ways? It seems that god deals in absolutes. The last time my dog shit in the house, I didn't put him in the microwave and set it on high. If I truely cared about the animal, then I wouldn't hurt it. So, if god exists and cares about us, then his punishments do not equal the crime.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I don't wanna argue with you, since we've resolved to get along, but I find that example to be a bit insulting. I know you're just using an example of a greater, more intelligent being having compassion for a lesser being. I mean, I'm no ones pet. And I'm not saying that a supposed supreme being doesn't care, but why would he punish human beings in such extreme ways? It seems that god deals in absolutes. The last time my dog shit in the house, I didn't put him in the microwave and set it on high. If I truely cared about the animal, then I wouldn't hurt it. So, if god exists and cares about us, then his punishments do not equal the crime.

Will then lets not argue, but converse. You know when your parents punish you, and you think its crap and unfair, and the thing that the say is "this hurts me more than it hurts you." The same with God. The only difference is, they probably punish you for what God would consider misdemeanors compared to punishments He would administor for things done against Him.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Will then lets not argue, but converse. You know when your parents punish you, and you think its crap and unfair, and the thing that the say is "this hurts me more than it hurts you." The same with God. The only difference is, they probably punish you for what God would consider misdemeanors compared to punishments He would administor for things done against Him.

Well, that explains everything. I always told my mother she was full of shit when she said it hurt her more than me. Beyond that though, if I cheat on my wife with another married woman, then I've just commited half a dozen sins. If I don't ask for forgivness, then god will send me to hell. Getting a spanking from your parents is not quite as severe as burning in hell for all eternity! Again, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. So, by your comparisson, my mother would send me to hell for having sex, were she god? If god loves us SOOOOO much, like a child is loved by his parents, then why would hell even be a notion...a concept...of punishment for ANYTHING we did?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Well, that explains everything. I always told my mother she was full of shit when she said it hurt her more than me. Beyond that though, if I cheat on my wife with another married woman, then I've just commited half a dozen sins. If I don't ask for forgivness, then god will send me to hell. Getting a spanking from your parents is not quite as severe as burning in hell for all eternity! Again, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. So, by your comparisson, my mother would send me to hell for having sex, were she god? If god loves us SOOOOO much, like a child is loved by his parents, then why would hell even be a notion...a concept...of punishment for ANYTHING we did?

Let's break this down, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. In other words going up to God and saying "screw you I don't need you." And when you die you get sent to were you wanted absolute disconnection with God. That is what hell is. The entity of a sin is saying "I will not serve." Which is exactly what Lucifer said before he fell. When your parents said it might not have been ust. When God says it, it is. He is the ultimate judge, the perfect judicator. He will be just when it comes to your just reward. You merit heaven or hell through action. If in the way you lived deserves Hell, than that's what your going to get. And vice versa. The border line gets Purgatory.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Let's break this down, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. In other words going up to God and saying "screw you I don't need you." And when you die you get sent to were you wanted absolute disconnection with God. That is what hell is. The entity of a sin is saying "I will not serve." Which is exactly what Lucifer said before he fell. When your parents said it might not have been ust. When God says it, it is. He is the ultimate judge, the perfect judicator. He will be just when it comes to your just reward. You merit heaven or hell through action. If in the way you lived deserves Hell, than that's what your going to get. And vice versa. The border line gets Purgatory.

But, while you may feel that way, not many other religious people do. And beyond that, why do religious people not accept that? I respect your belief that that is the way it is...hell, I wish I thought that was it...but where does the hypocrisy and judgment come from if that were truely the case?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But, while you may feel that way, not many other religious people do. And beyond that, why do religious people not accept that? I respect your belief that that is the way it is...hell, I wish I thought that was it...but where does the hypocrisy and judgment come from if that were truely the case?

Wait, you lost me...

But wait what would your "God" do if some one was being humiliated and killed the people that were making fun of him would he still go to "hell" or raise ubove to "Heaven"?