Originally posted by gp christ loves
not true Debbie it is Christ and chritianity for Jesus said I am the way the truth and the light no one comes to the father but through me
You didn't read that at all, did you?
Originally posted by debbiejo
Well, heres a question, If all or most of the Christian religions sprang up from paganism, and that IS Babylon...Then how do you suppose we get out?
What do you mean, what is Babylon? Babylon was an ancient Mesopotamian city. There is no need to escape Babylon, it no longer exists.
I think one of the most interesting things that comes from this article is that it takes into consideration the true originals of christianity. Many times, I've heard chrisitians say that there are so many coincidences; that 'god' must have had a hand in it. Well, notice how this article demonstrates that it was the ancient scholars that likely had a greater hand in it? As I said once, a long time ago,(maybe to lil B, I don't remember) all the world is numbers. When was the last time you heard about a christian in the third century predicting an eclipse or a meteor shower? Huh? All of these ancient religions have one thing in common: Logic. The quotes somewhere in the middle truely represent a truth. That for so long, the christians were the lower class, uneducated peasants of the ancient world. Now, there's no doubt that the christians, and the jews before them, were a discriminated class. But, you know, they never accomplished anything real before they were influenced by other religions. Why? In my opinion, because they based their religion of a peasant religion that was content to sit back and let their god do everything for them. Unlike the other religions, jews(and christians after them) were a scared desert people that came up with the concept of gods knowledge being too much for man to comprehend. But, if god used his knowledge and power to create a world we were to live in, and then created us in his own image, why would he not expect us to learn from teh world around us? Well, Jews came up with the idea that if you became as smart as god(ate from the tree of knowledge) that he would use his power to cast you into the lesser world of self awareness and labour. It seems to me that other religions realized we were that to begin with, and tried to better themselves under those conditions. The christians built into their mythology that the desire to better ourselves was the influence of the devil. OOHHH! Spookey eh?
so, as the christian leadership realized that (through the benefit of direct interaction with these higher class "super religions"😉 They realized they had stumbled upon a most fascinating glitch. That their own religion was keeping its followers ignorant. Then, they turned around and said: "Hey, we'll attract more people if we apply the same patterns of other religions in these regions to our own story!" So, christianity is a patch work quilt of other religions. An excellent propoganda tool. A series of syncretisms as the article said.
My basic points in all of this is simple,however. What still exists of all those other religions? All those, antiquated, evil, barbaric religions? The only truth that can be seen in the world around us: Science. And what will eventually happen to the christianity? It will fade away to antiquity, just like the other religions that based their truths on made up stories. The difference? The difference between those other religions, and the more modern religions?(more than just christianity) The contribution of many modern religions is to believe in the equality of man. Unfotunately a practice not many christians follow, but will undoubtedly be one of their legacies to the past. Through books, I would assume.
"The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments. He baptises his believers and promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras. Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of the resurrection."
"continues to spread amongst the vulgar, nay one can even say it spreads because of its vulgarity, and the illiteracy of its adherants. And while there are a few moderate, reasonable, and intelligent people who are inclined to interpret its beliefs allegorically, yet it thrives in its purer form amongst the ignorant"
Capt. Just so you know, Babylon is used in the prophecy of the end of days..It's tells believers to come out of Babylon ( which mean, come out of the false religious system) So you don't suffer the plagues that God sends upon the earth....Christians like to talk about what Babylon is. But what if it's all the Christian religions that were based on paganism? What would people do...
And feceman...you don't have to die!!! Gee, that's cynical. Just get back to what you think the true worship was...and get out of organized religion.
Originally posted by debbiejo
Capt. Just so you know, Babylon is used in the prophecy of the end of days..It's tells believers to come out of Babylon ( which mean, come out of the false religious system) So you don't suffer the plagues that God sends upon the earth....Christians like to talk about what Babylon is. But what if it's all the Christian religions that were based on paganism? What would people do...And feceman...you don't have to die!!! Gee, that's cynical. Just get back to what you think the true worship was...and get out of organized religion.
Just so you know, I'm fully aware of how it is used in the christian context. My explaination simply makes more sense.
You read the article didn't you? You understand the progression of Christianity, right? The original christian church is what we call the "Catholic church". The Catholic church ruled christians for a while, then Martin Luther pinned his grievences on teh church door in Germany. Then the protestant churches and the catholic churches continued to splinter until we have all the christian religions. (and the mormons, whatever they are) Basically, all of them are based on pagan religions, according to the article; they just don't all know it.
And Fece is right: If you escape "the end of days", then you have died before they came about.
[QUOTE=3710817]Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
[B]You didn't read that at all, did you?
What do you mean, what is Babylon? Babylon was an ancient Mesopotamian city. There is no need to escape Babylon, it no longer exists.
Sorry, I was responding to this part of your statement...Thought you didn't understand what was being said about Babylon.
I do understand the whole history of it. All the changes that has probably occured..It could also explain some of the contradictions in the Bible too because of the church tampering with the scriptures.
Also, If God says in scripture. "Come out of her my people", meaning Babylon, I don't think it would be as fece said.
I was just reading a quote From Pope Leo X, He lived 1513 thru 1531.
He is quoted saying," It was well known how profitable this fable of Christ has been to us."
I think it's possible that the Catholic Church could be keeping a secret from the rest of the world. Why else would Pope Leo X say such a thing????
Debbie, when I said "you didn't read that at all , did you?" I was talking to gp christ loves.
As for Babylon, In regards to avoiding, once again, 'the end of days'..then Fece is right, you'd have to have died before they came about to avoid being there when the 'end of the world' happens.
And christians have been living in the "end of days" since the day after christ ascended into heaven, one has to question the validity of the churches teachings. The first century church taught that christ would return in their generation. Babylon was actually Rome in those days. It's another pitfall in the logic of the church. Every generation is living in 'the end of days'?
Originally posted by debbiejo
I was just reading a quote From Pope Leo X, He lived 1513 thru 1531.He is quoted saying," It was well known how profitable this fable of Christ has been to us."
I think it's possible that the Catholic Church could be keeping a secret from the rest of the world. Why else would Pope Leo X say such a thing????
Well, I'm sure sarcasm was a big aspect of religious writting back then; pesants had a real ability to read between the lines.
Seriously though, I'd have to see the rest of the text to make a call on what he meant. But, the thing that so many catholics don't seem to comprehend is that for a long time, the church was less about god and more about political power and money. It really was the last world government.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Seriously though, I'd have to see the rest of the text to make a call on what he meant. But, the thing that so many catholics don't seem to comprehend is that for a long time, the church was less about god and more about political power and money. It really was the last world government.
Originally posted by debbiejo
It's the Catholic and Protestant religions that sprang up from Paganism...True worship is not outward it's inward...It's not physical, but spiritual...It's not a physical heaven or hell, but a spiritual one. It's not connecting with God on a outward appearance, but a inner mind connection...HOW'S That....It's not religion at all, because all can do it! It's not any one rule or denomination, But only God which is Love, Truth, Light.
I agree that true worship is inward not outward, but God
also demands certain modes of behavior, since He knows
that often times, doing is more difficult that feeling.
For example, a man could geniunely love his wife with all
his heart, thus the inward is pure and good, but he can also
have sex with other women, say prostitutes, because he is
unable to restarin his sexual desires (and maybe she does
not provide much opportunity for him).
In such a case, one can say that though his heart is good,
his deeds aren't, and that he should restrain his actions
along the lines of his heart.
Thus God asks us to have a good heart and soul, but to
also be good to others in our words and actions.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
You didn't read that at all, did you?What do you mean, what is Babylon? Babylon was an ancient Mesopotamian city. There is no need to escape Babylon, it no longer exists.
I think one of the most interesting things that comes from this article is that it takes into consideration the true originals of christianity. Many times, I've heard chrisitians say that there are so many coincidences; that 'god' must have had a hand in it. Well, notice how this article demonstrates that it was the ancient scholars that likely had a greater hand in it? As I said once, a long time ago,(maybe to lil B, I don't remember) all the world is numbers. When was the last time you heard about a christian in the third century predicting an eclipse or a meteor shower? Huh? All of these ancient religions have one thing in common: Logic. The quotes somewhere in the middle truely represent a truth. That for so long, the christians were the lower class, uneducated peasants of the ancient world. Now, there's no doubt that the christians, and the jews before them, were a discriminated class. But, you know, they never accomplished anything real before they were influenced by other religions. Why? In my opinion, because they based their religion of a peasant religion that was content to sit back and let their god do everything for them. Unlike the other religions, jews(and christians after them) were a scared desert people that came up with the concept of gods knowledge being too much for man to comprehend. But, if god used his knowledge and power to create a world we were to live in, and then created us in his own image, why would he not expect us to learn from teh world around us? Well, Jews came up with the idea that if you became as smart as god(ate from the tree of knowledge) that he would use his power to cast you into the lesser world of self awareness and labour. It seems to me that other religions realized we were that to begin with, and tried to better themselves under those conditions. The christians built into their mythology that the desire to better ourselves was the influence of the devil. OOHHH! Spookey eh?
so, as the christian leadership realized that (through the benefit of direct interaction with these higher class "super religions"😉 They realized they had stumbled upon a most fascinating glitch. That their own religion was keeping its followers ignorant. Then, they turned around and said: "Hey, we'll attract more people if we apply the same patterns of other religions in these regions to our own story!" So, christianity is a patch work quilt of other religions. An excellent propoganda tool. A series of syncretisms as the article said.
My basic points in all of this is simple,however. What still exists of all those other religions? All those, antiquated, evil, barbaric religions? The only truth that can be seen in the world around us: Science. And what will eventually happen to the christianity? It will fade away to antiquity, just like the other religions that based their truths on made up stories. The difference? The difference between those other religions, and the more modern religions?(more than just christianity) The contribution of many modern religions is to believe in the equality of man. Unfotunately a practice not many christians follow, but will undoubtedly be one of their legacies to the past. Through books, I would assume.
"The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments. He baptises his believers and promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras. Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of the resurrection."
"continues to spread amongst the vulgar, nay one can even say it spreads because of its vulgarity, and the illiteracy of its adherants. And while there are a few moderate, reasonable, and intelligent people who are inclined to interpret its beliefs allegorically, yet it thrives in its purer form amongst the ignorant"
Three points:
1-The article has faults, and is clearly biased against the Faith.
2-While it is true that early Israelites were desert peoples, the
same is not true of early Christians.
3-Your view that the pagan religions are more open to the
sciences and were the provier of the intellectual impetus to
the Christians (and I assume Muslims as well) is flawed.
The fact is, not all pagan peoples were able to predict
an eclipe of meteor shower. many stayed in the same state
of "ignorance" and the early Christians. And if they eventually
did, it was only after coming in contact with those pagan
cultures that did predict eclipses and develope accurate
caelndars, like the Babylonians for example.
Even the Greeks did not enagge in such worldly intellectual
endeavours until they came across the knowledge of the
older societies to the east of them.
In other words, while it is true that Christians did not care
much for science and other such intellectual pursuits, until
they came encountered the greeks, the same can be said
of the Greeks vis-a-vis the Egyptians and Babylonians, or
the Romans vis-a-vis the Greeks, and so on.
Many peoples got the impetus for seeking wroldly
knowledge from outside.
Originally posted by King Burger
Three points:1-The article has faults, and is clearly biased against the Faith.
You consider them faults, I consider them strengths.
Originally posted by King Burger
2-While it is true that early Israelites were desert peoples, the
same is not true of early Christians.
Absolutely they were. Their mission was to crawl out of the desert and spread to every corner of the Roman Empire.
Originally posted by King Burger
3-Your view that the pagan religions are more open to the
sciences and were the provier of the intellectual impetus to
the Christians (and I assume Muslims as well) is flawed.The fact is, not all pagan peoples were able to predict
an eclipe of meteor shower. many stayed in the same state
of "ignorance" and the early Christians. And if they eventually
did, it was only after coming in contact with those pagan
cultures that did predict eclipses and develope accurate
caelndars, like the Babylonians for example.Even the Greeks did not enagge in such worldly intellectual
endeavours until they came across the knowledge of the
older societies to the east of them.In other words, while it is true that Christians did not care
much for science and other such intellectual pursuits, until
they came encountered the greeks, the same can be said
of the Greeks vis-a-vis the Egyptians and Babylonians, or
the Romans vis-a-vis the Greeks, and so on.Many peoples got the impetus for seeking wroldly
knowledge from outside.
Where did I say that all pagan religions were as advanced as those that were the most advanced? My point is that Jews and Christians after them decided to be one of those less advanced religions. They worked out because they were propogated by ignorance. They feed on their followers stupidity. And, there was never any greek influence on the early christians. The Greek empire was no more. They had been absorbed by the Roman empire.
Every culture has it's foundations in other societies. The Egyptians being an anomoly, because they developed for the most part, independant of other cultures. Egypt, just like Greece, was a group of city states that were unified under one flag. This is when so many ideas from different aspects of one super culture became one group of ideas or philosophy. Egypt, was intertwined city states unified by Menes and became the longest lasting culture in history.
My point about the christians is that they made a concerted effort to deny that they were influenced by other cultures and religions. FFS, it was based on the Jewish culture and religion, which in turn was based on an amalgam of other religions in the region. That's why we have contradictory teachings in the old and new testaments of the bible. My point is that they continued with the theme of theri followers stupidity. All religion is based on fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of god and fear of what is in the world around us. I wonder, what is there to fear?