Originally posted by Echuu
LOL and you are telling moviejunkie to stop the rheteric???A little more than 1500 people have died i believe. Stop whining! I value those lives and I would die for my country too but you know; those losses are NOTHING compared to most other wars. The ends justifies the means.
The Israelis rightfully own most of that land and Yasser-is-a-fat was a bloody terrorist!!! Now they finally got a decent leader in there for negotiations.
I only want to discuss this little part and nothing else.
The ends almost never justify the means. a little more than 1500 people died, ok that was tough on your country I can understand that, but that doesn't justify killing over ten times that amount in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.
Personally I could understand the war with Afghanistan but the war with Iraq???
Iraq threatened the US in what way??? cause that fact always eluded me? How in gods name would Saddam have been able to attack the US?
but now to the core?
The Israelis do not rightfully own parts of the country they call there own. They occupy large amounts of land that was given to the Palestinians by the UN. And what little land they do allow the palestinians they occupy whenever they see fit. I also don't believe in the way Israel retaliates to the terrorist attacks. it doesn't really add up one car bomb that injures three people is retaliated against by a helicopter strike which kills 5 people, of whom several could be children.
Originally posted by Echuu
😆 thankstwas obviously directed at me but i still think its funny 😂
Anytime, as long as you form your own rational opinions and justifications as to why we should be bombing the cradle of civilization itself, and don't simply hide behind the flag, you've at least got some degree of courtesy from me. Sure, it won't make my points any less scathing, but at least I won't be calling you a shill.
Originally posted by Fire
I only want to discuss this little part and nothing else.The ends almost never justify the means. a little more than 1500 people died, ok that was tough on your country I can understand that, but that doesn't justify killing over ten times that amount in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.
Personally I could understand the war with Afghanistan but the war with Iraq???
Iraq threatened the US in what way??? cause that fact always eluded me? How in gods name would Saddam have been able to attack the US?but now to the core?
The Israelis do not rightfully own parts of the country they call there own. They occupy large amounts of land that was given to the Palestinians by the UN. And what little land they do allow the palestinians they occupy whenever they see fit. I also don't believe in the way Israel retaliates to the terrorist attacks. it doesn't really add up one car bomb that injures three people is retaliated against by a helicopter strike which kills 5 people, of whom several could be children.
Like I said for Pearl- I'm not 100% positive on the facts but I believe more people died in the Two Towers than at Pearl Harbor. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm just wondering what you guys would be saying if we went back 60 years. When pearl was attacked we went to Germany, then Japan! Somewhat similar to our situation now, just reversed order of attack. What imminate threat was Germany to us then? Does going to Germany and killing a bunch of them justify the losses at Pearl? Does bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki justify the deaths at Pearl?
The problem with Palestine is when will they stop? They basically want all of Israel and the people of Israel dead. You give them the land they want and they are just gonna come screaming for more. Yes they have their suicide bombings. It is very unfortunate. But you usually don't see Israeli children throwing rocks at the enemy do you?
No it doesn't. but you didn't come to germany to avenge pearl harbour, the germans had dick to do with that. You came her to liberate Europe from the Nazi's. Now I don't think you guys liberated any occupied territory in Iraq now did you. People could understand the first gulf war cause it had decent meaning. the second one seriously lacked that. You went after Japan even harder and faster than you went after Germany. The war in the pacific just took a tad longer.
I am fairly confident that if a decent agreement would have been made, to which both sides would stick. like NO MORE settlements and stuff terrorism would calm down, might take a decade tho.
About throwing rocks, you don't see Palestinian tanks destroy Israeli houses now do you?
Japans attack on Pearl Harbor was a act of war, they declared war on America and had every intention to either take over the country or bomb it into a bloody pulp so they could rule all of Asia...
That was their idea. Iraq did not have a idea like that, i don't disagree with the attack on Afghanistan i don't think anybody could. What i do disagree with however is the attack on Iraq and and what is happening there now.
Also about Osama Bin Laden starting it? Are you insane?
Osama Bin Laden in his eyes gave America what came to them. America used to support Bin Laden during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. They promised him billions but when Russia retreated he lost his money and the US left him. He was pissed off of course. Then at another time don't remember where or when Osama was in a war zone when he saw two towers being destroyed by American forces, that is how he came up with the idea of destroying the WTC. The pentagon and the white house were just insurance matters and to make more then just the American people pay for what was done.
Osama blew up the WTC for revenge, the same reason Bush went into Afghanistan.
And what can you do besides go to war to defend yourself?
How about not screw up the world? Thats what many people think the US is doing. In Israel in Eastern Europe, Africa, South America, Asia... They are abusing their power and we all know it. Some think they can do so and get away with it, some think we shouldn't complain about and some people overreact to things like that, by for instance starting a war or bombing the US with airplanes. You all say Osama got what he deserved and many say Saddam did the same, well Osama said Bush and the American people got what they deserved when the WTC was bombed to the ground and all those people lost their lives. You can not blame this thing on one party only. Both are responsible for everything that happened.
Osama is not a angry man without a reason, he has his reasons. And what Bush is saying about wars is bullshit. It does not make the world a better and safer place. It does not make the people in other country's think "Oh they went to war, they must be nice people we won't bomb then anymore." Fear breeds these terrorist fear and hate, all Bush is doing is make the amount of terrorist and the hate in the world grow. This hardly makes the world a safer place. You should not attack another country without a damn good reason. They had a great reason to go Afghanistan, yes the US was just as responsible for that happening but doing nothing makes you seem weak and the Terrorist would hardly stop at just the WTC. So that was a good decision it was their only real option. But Iraq? For Defence? Its only making the situation worse.
Originally posted by Echuu
... But you usually don't see Israeli children throwing rocks at the enemy do you?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1325307,00.html
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/tomhurndall.html
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/brianavery.html
Let me know when a rock blows up a tank.
Don't dare get me wrong, I think there could be an Israeli state and a Palestinian state side-by-side.
However, arrangements have to be made for there to be a fair division of land. One can't simply chop the area in such a fashion that Israel gets nearly all the arable land and nearly all the water wells. That won't work. Divide the land so that both sides are equally capable of providing for those living there.
Suicide bombing is bad. I'll agree that it's downright evil.
But I'll flip the moral equivalency equation around here and bring up the forced migration of the Palestinian people and leave it at that.
Originally posted by Fishy
JOsama is not a angry man without a reason, he has his reasons. And what Bush is saying about wars is bullshit. It does not make the world a better and safer place. It does not make the people in other country's think "Oh they went to war, they must be nice people we won't bomb then anymore." Fear breeds these terrorist fear and hate, all Bush is doing is make the amount of terrorist and the hate in the world grow. This hardly makes the world a safer place. You should not attack another country without a damn good reason. They had a great reason to go Afghanistan, yes the US was just as responsible for that happening but doing nothing makes you seem weak and the Terrorist would hardly stop at just the WTC. So that was a good decision it was their only real option. But Iraq? For Defence? Its only making the situation worse.
WTF??? Osama has reasons??? The guy is a friggin insane extremist! How can he have reasons for killing people including his own people! Bush is making things worse? The terrorist are the ones who are feeding on fear. With their constant treats making saying they going to strike again one day. If you going to be making threats then is rightfully right to be ready to defend and even attack those that threaten you.
Originally posted by Fire
No it doesn't. but you didn't come to germany to avenge pearl harbour, the germans had dick to do with that. You came her to liberate Europe from the Nazi's. Now I don't think you guys liberated any occupied territory in Iraq now did you. People could understand the first gulf war cause it had decent meaning. the second one seriously lacked that. You went after Japan even harder and faster than you went after Germany. The war in the pacific just took a tad longer.I am fairly confident that if a decent agreement would have been made, to which both sides would stick. like NO MORE settlements and stuff terrorism would calm down, might take a decade tho.
About throwing rocks, you don't see Palestinian tanks destroy Israeli houses now do you?
I would love it if diplomacy would work. Terrorists HATE us. That's the problem.
No you don't see Palistinian tanks destroying Israeli houses because prefer to blow themselves up in the streets. Terrorism is more effective for them that way. It would be pretty hard to stop a man with a bomb strapped to himself and in the middle of a crowd compared to how easy it would be for the Israeli military to stop a tank shooting at houses.
My point was that when there would be people using tanks to destroy your houses and those of your friends you'd throw stones at them too. Now the palestinians don't have tanks so they can't use them. and indeed a suicide terrorist is far harder to spot then a tank, that's also the reason why you don't see Israeli kids throwing stones at palestinian suicide bombers.
And diplomacy does work, Northren Ireland has been pretty quite the last couple of years, mainly because of diplomacy.
Originally posted by Fire
My point was that when there would be people using tanks to destroy your houses and those of your friends you'd throw stones at them too.
No, you'd willfully turn yourself in to authorities because the only reason your house would be bulldozed is if you were a terr'rist, right? RIGHT?
😆
And diplomacy does work, Northren Ireland has been pretty quite the last couple of years, mainly because of diplomacy.
Democracy works with them because they're white people.
😆
</sarcasm>
Originally posted by Fire
My point was that when there would be people using tanks to destroy your houses and those of your friends you'd throw stones at them too. Now the palestinians don't have tanks so they can't use them. and indeed a suicide terrorist is far harder to spot then a tank, that's also the reason why you don't see Israeli kids throwing stones at palestinian suicide bombers.And diplomacy does work, Northren Ireland has been pretty quite the last couple of years, mainly because of diplomacy.
Yes but children throwing stones!? That's stupid!
Sorry I don't know about Ireland. What were they threatened by?
Originally posted by BullitNutz
No, you'd willfully turn yourself in to authorities because the only reason your house would be bulldozed is if you were a terr'rist, right? RIGHT?😆
Democracy works with them because they're white people.
😆
</sarcasm>
😂 I think the democracy works with Ireland because they don't want to get their lights punched out by a drunk angry guy from the pub.
Originally posted by Fire
Northren Ireland? The IRA doesn't ring any bells?I never said it was a good idea Echuu all I said was it was understandable.
No I'm quite sorry it doesn't ring a bell. I remember something very vaguely but otherwise no.
It would be understandable if parents were a little smarter.
Children have no place in war like that and, in fact, in almost every circumstance of war they should have no place in it.
Originally posted by WindDancer
WTF??? Osama has reasons??? The guy is a friggin insane extremist! How can he have reasons for killing people including his own people! Bush is making things worse? The terrorist are the ones who are feeding on fear. With their constant treats making saying they going to strike again one day. If you going to be making threats then is rightfully right to be ready to defend and even attack those that threaten you.
Yeah Osama had his reasons, you may not agree with them. I sure as hell don't, but that doesn't mean he didn't have them. Even Hitler had reasons for the things he did.
And yes terrorists are feeding on fear, fear for them and fear for the alternative. They get followers because others hate country's like America who attack them without reason (or at least thats how they see it) and do things that are against any morale law, they think America is the big bad guy and you punish them until they change their ways. Attacking Iraq is not exactly changing your ways. How the hell would something like that make the world a safer place? It just makes people hate the US more.
Originally posted by Fishy
Yeah Osama had his reasons, you may not agree with them. I sure as hell don't, but that doesn't mean he didn't have them. Even Hitler had reasons for the things he did.And yes terrorists are feeding on fear, fear for them and fear for the alternative. They get followers because others hate country's like America who attack them without reason (or at least thats how they see it) and do things that are against any morale law, they think America is the big bad guy and you punish them until they change their ways. Attacking Iraq is not exactly changing your ways. How the hell would something like that make the world a safer place? It just makes people hate the US more.
FYI They been hating Americans years before Osama was born. America has help Israel many times in the past and in the present and for certain muslims extremeist that is their justified reason to hate America. The mistake our politicians made was to try to gain acceptance from those extremists groups by helping them in Afghanistan and to over throw the Soviet invasion. They thought they could kill two birds with one stone and it simply backfire on us years later. These extremeist continue to get support everytime they see America associate with Israel and of course is going to trigger more and more support for terrorism.