Yoda vs Windu? Who IS better?

Originally posted by Vanquish
I think only jedi and sith can have light or dark side in them. Your standard bad a$$'s don't have any knowledge or feeling of the force, and therefore would not be any more suseptable to Mace's style then any other jedi. Example: Jango is a bad a$$ and can actually kill Jedi's, but he does not have the dark side in him, because he has no connection with the force. No, only a sith would be more vulnerable to windu's style, and as I mentioned, at the time he created his fighting style, there were no sith, so why did he create it? Why does he dance so close to the dark side, for no reason?

I need to read the book again but it is explained during the fight with sidious why he uses the darkside in his fighting style.

It is, but in order to actually use it to any advantage, you must have the knowledge and training to feel it. Regular people don't have that connection to it, so it's as if it's not even there really. And also, are there even any dark jedi in Windu's life span? (other then dooku)

Originally posted by Vanquish
It is, but in order to actually use it to any advantage, you must have the knowledge and training to feel it. Regular people don't have that connection to it, so it's as if it's not even there really. And also, are there even any dark jedi in Windu's life span?

One of the main purposes of the Jedi order is to defeat the Sith. It makes perfect sense to me that a fighting style would be created specifically for this purpose, even if it couldn't be optimally used for the greater part of his life.

And also, for the people who keep referencing Obi's comment to Ani as proof that Yoda is a better swordsman, what about Ani speaking of being "as wise as master Yoda, and as powerful as Master Windu"? In my eyes, this meant that, in combat, Windu was superior. This doesn't make him a better Jedi, as there is far more to being Jedi than fighting. If anything, it shows that Mace gains a distinct advantage through his flirtation with the dark side.

Yoda.

There really is no way of knowing, but it is cool to speculate what the power structure really is. There is always problems though. We know that windu lost to dooku a while back, but were they going all out or just sparring, and neither one of them were at their peek. Windu seems to beat palpy pretty good, but was palpy holding back to turn anakin? Yoda loses to palpy, but is he just way too old, past his prime, or distrought over the death of the younglings, or is he actually stronger? Anakin does some serious a$$ kicking in ROTS, but obi wan still beats him despite obi wan not being able to touch dooku, who anikin disposes of with ease. Windu kills Jango in about 2 seconds, but obi wan has a hell of a time with him, yet again, obi wan rises to the occasion vs anakin, who windu loses to. The movie implies that yoda is the strongest sword fighter with obi wans comment about "rivaling master yoda in sword fighting", but then contradicts again with Anakins "as powerful as windu" comment.

Many contradictions in the movies, but in opinion, here is the pecking order of who is truly the strongest.

1) Yoda
2) Palpy
3) Windu
4) Anakin
5) Obi wan

Originally posted by Vanquish
Well, your math is messed up a bit for 2 reasons:

1) Palpy lets windu get the better of him on purpose, to allow Anikin to step in and kill him, making the final transition to the dark side. In actual fact, I think DS is stronger then windu and could have beat him at any time if that's what he really wanted.

2) Yoda was beating palpy until he started fighting dirty, which yoda is incapable of doing. In a straight up fight, yoda would mop the floor with him.

Yoda > Windu 🙂

You cant say Palps does this and papls done that still you see the film but what has been stated as a fact is that Windu gets the better of Palps in a fight and is on the brink of killing him. Also to the post above Anakin doesnt kill Windu in a one on one duel he sneakily chops of his hands and besides by then windu would have been tired from fighting palps.

^^ agreed. Mace wasn't concentrated on Anakin. He was simply talking to him, trying to persuade him that he was in the right to kill Palpatine. Anakin then chopped his hand off as he went to finish the job. Not exactly a straight up duel. And as for Dooku beating mace, could someone provide a link to this evidence? Not saying I don't believe it, but I've never seen it myself.

And as a final note, Palpatine was NOT playing possum against Mace. Why would he? What if Anakin makes a split-second decision that Mace is right? Is Sidious willing to bet hundreds of years of machinations against that, when he could apparently just as easily kill everyone and rule the empire himself? No, he NEEDED Anakin, and Anakin, in turning, allowed Palpatine to survive.

Of course it is not certain whether palpy was letting windu get the better of him or not, but it just seems to point in that direction from all that I have read and seen. There are good arguments on both sides. I just think that he needed to use that as Anakins final push to the dark side, and what better time to do it? Eliminate Windu, and turn anakin at the same time. I guess I'm just one of those guys that doesn't think Windu is as powerful as others think he is. Of course he's one of the best, but to b1tch slap palpy the way he apparently does, and then have palpy beat yoda, it just doesn't add up to me. I think it was his plan to play weak, but who knows...

Originally posted by sexyking
You cant say Palps does this and papls done that still you see the film but what has been stated as a fact is that Windu gets the better of Palps in a fight and is on the brink of killing him. Also to the post above Anakin doesnt kill Windu in a one on one duel he sneakily chops of his hands and besides by then windu would have been tired from fighting palps.

Actually, he would not be tired at all. If everyone is hellbent on the fact that he uses this VAPAAD technique, then read up on it a little bit. It says that the person using this form becomes like a circuit for a loop of energy. As soon as the energy comes in, it leaves....it even says about hteir deul that neither one grows tired from the deul. And i still contend that "springs to life" means he was playing Mace and anakin to get him to turn.

I have to agree with the notion that Sidious allowed Windu to beat him in order to turn Anakin...granted I have not read the book or script but from the trailer I see Sidious taking on Windu, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin at the same time. If Windu was a better swordsman, surely he'd have finished Sidious quickly while he had the advantage (Sidious being extremely outnumbered). As far as Windu's Vaapad technique being superior, I assume Sidious is fighting with ancient Sith forms, most likely drastically different from the Jedi Order's -incapacitation is preferred over kill- developed styles. Whereas Windu's form might focus on allowing the darkside to be a part of the style, Sidious IS the darkside. The restrictions the Jedi place upon aggression is a burden to their form development, IMO.

right, but im referring to the previous post that said Windu would be tired, whereas if you (not YOU inparticular, just in general) know about his style, you'd know that energy doesnt stay with him. Hence, he wouldnt get tired. Thats all im saying. But i agree with you mista.

I'll just say this one thing if Mace is better then Yoda..then Mace would be the head of Jedi Council not Yoda, I don't care how many years expierence Yoda has, Mace is 2nd to Yoda

That he is. I'm surprised this is such a heated debate. Mace clearly defers to Yoda in all things. While he is a prodigy and quite possibly more able to defeat Sith than Yoda due to his talents, Yoda's command of the Force is greater, and his wisdom a lot better. And Mace has already lost to Yoda and Dooku, as was posted on the main Star Wars site in the databank. What more do you want? I signed confession from Samuel L Jackson saying he can't beat Frank OZ?

Yoda is better he survives fighting Palpatine and Windu does not. I won't say anymore because it will spoil it for some. Yoda is more wiser and only just more powerfull. I mean did you see what he was like fighting Dooku in EP II.

Yoda didn't get snuck up on by someone he trusted either. Or is that not a factor in your mind?

Hmmm indeed that is true. yoda never really trusted Anakin nor did Windu but i supose they did'nt think that Anakin would betray them though.

Well, either way you look at it, Anakin's betrayal wasn't the first thing on Mace's mind at the time. A serious disadvatage.

Yoda has experience on his side, plus he's obviously the most skilled in the use of the force, except for Sidious that will use him to wipe the floor, Windu on the other hand possess great skills too, and an aggressive and fast combat style, but he's not at Yoda's level in the use of the force.Most people overrates Windu thanks to his duel with the Emperor, but they forget that Palpatine was holding back to cheat Anakin into join the Dark Side through aiding him in the fight with Master Windu.

Windu is the most badazz jedi that ever lived deal with it...lol