<<Until u have checked out the references i gave u, you cant really continue to argue with me.>>
sure i can. as i think has already been mentioned, the watcher also stated in an FF book early on that GALACTUS is the most powerful force in the universe. and since FF have been around longer than x-men, stands that IT is the more credible source. and in a SS issue, it is stated quite plainly that if galactus dies, the universe itself will end. if phoenix dies . . . well, so would this argument. phoenix is powerful. it is not (at least in theory) what galactus is. FF and SS. those are some pretty damn fine sources if i do say so myself.
"sure i can. as i think has already been mentioned, the watcher also stated in an FF book early on that GALACTUS is the most powerful force in the universe. and since FF have been around longer than x-men, stands that IT is the more credible source. and in a SS issue, it is stated quite plainly that if galactus dies, the universe itself will end. if phoenix dies . . . well, so would this argument. phoenix is powerful. it is not (at least in theory) what galactus is. FF and SS. those are some pretty damn fine sources if i do say so myself."
Leo as you must know if u're an avid reader of comics. Marvel is always changing the hierarchy, always introducing some new uber-powerful being that tops the others. Some like the beyonder and galactus are somewhat downgraded after time. Others such as the phoenix force retain their power and status. The watcher said that in FF way before he said that in the dark phoenix saga. From what ive just said your reasoning on it being a more credible source isnt quite as sound as u might think. Galactus has died on many occassions also and Abraxas was let loose who in turn threatened to destroy the universe. Its possible that thats the extent of the big disaster that will befall the universe on his death. Its possible. Galactus tried to remove the phoenix from rachel and the universes stars started fading. See phoenix is shown as integral to. The transitionary force that embodies life and death. The phoenix also works as a doctor of the universe as shown in the GM run. Healing what needs to be healed(m'kraan) and "disinfecting" that which doesnt work and threatens the balance of the universe(d'bari and sublime)
Kg. Check out the 6 issue xmen: forever series, classic xmen 8, 42 and 43 and also grant morrisons run on new xmen a year and a half ago. More specifically the "Here comes tommorrow" story arc.
This link also explains a lot about the phoenix especially that story arc i just told u about:
<<Leo as you must know if u're an avid reader of comics. Marvel is always changing the hierarchy, always introducing some new uber-powerful being that tops the others. Some like the beyonder and galactus are somewhat downgraded after time.>>
true, and the exact argument i would have used if i were you! damn . . . guess we'll simply agree to disagree. you obviously like phoenix (i was DID like the phoenix force) while i like galactus, hence my bias. i like the sense of history that surrounds galactus and given that he survived the death of his own universe, he's always been at or very near the top of my food chain. unfortunately he's one of those guys who gets beat often to prove that some new guy is powerful. shrugs. still doesn't change what he is - or should be. i said PF is powerful. i still contend it is not what galactus is, and is below eternity and far below (as every universe force must be) the LT.
as for the illusion bit - that was among the stupidest story arcs i'd ever read and was what amounted to a cop out by the writers. how the hell does he create an illusion of all that?? assinine. nowadays the beyonder is viewed as a 'minor omnipotent', which places him on the tier below galactus, the celestials eternity, death and LT. and below the PF.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
"Eternity...because he is the embodiment of life in the universe. He and Death are the top dogs as far as cosmic beings go, (not counting LT, of course).The Beyonder was a faker, and DP is more at Galactus level...maybe higher maybe lower."
Although i hate to admit it its probably eternity then Dark Phoenix. Id still argue that Phoenix could win but thats another state of jean and thats for another thread. Lord S, Death is a high ranking cosmic being but like galactus her/its status is higher than its actual power is. Death holds no power over the phoenix whatsoever. They have had many conversations in classic xmen more specifically issue 42 and throughout the years (more recently jean was shown phoenixes importance in xmen forever) where death has told phoenix that she is a transitionary force that embodies both life and death. So yeah eternity, dark phoenix and then beyonder but if u make it normal phoenix then i can write u a novel long argument why eternity would go down!! lol
If it be full PF powers, then it could maby take Eternity down (in pure destructive power, PF is above Eternity, Dark Phoenix), I don't think so.
Originally posted by armandovalles
i dont think so, i'm not sure about some of them but i know for a fact that the Living Tribunal is #1 and that the Phoenix Force is barely more-powerful than galactus, also Franklin Richards should be very high on that list cuz he can create his own universes just by thinking about them.
It's pretty funny you put LT above TOAA, LOL, and above HOTU who made out of LT a joke. You said you've read TOAA bio (dmaybe you are confues, maby you think TOAA Celestal). And it was TOAA who created LT. And LT said there is being that is byond himslef and that is TOAA.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Kg. Check out the 6 issue xmen: forever series, classic xmen 8, 42 and 43 and also grant morrisons run on new xmen a year and a half ago. More specifically the "Here comes tommorrow" story arc.This link also explains a lot about the phoenix especially that story arc i just told u about:
She is more related to death.
"Later, Death appeared to the Phoenix Force, claiming it to be the product of power of all life yet unborn, and thus somewhat an agent of Death and abstract entity the likes of Eternity and Death. Death helped to convince the Force to leave its then-current avatar, Rachel Summers."
marvel directory.
so how does that make PF = eternity in power.