Force lightning question

All because Dooku can do it doesn't mean Maul can do it. Maul isn't all that powerful, yes he was trained by Sidious, but maybe Maul doesn't have enough Midichlorians(SP?) to generate such power, he's a great swordsman better then Dooku but Dooku is far more powerful then Maul. Also I believe Vader can do it GL is just making up an excuse why he doesn't do it b/c its too late to change it...remember GL made up OT has he was going along, he probably just thought about force lightning when he was making EP VI so can show how powerful the Emperor is

Dooku can use force lightning so Yoda can deflect it like some beam battle out of Dragon Ball Z or the contest of wills in John Carpenter's Big Trouble in Little China. Note also that Yoda did a lot of unusual things for his first on screen battle: He actually fought; he fought ridiculously crazy, if he had just swung and ducked and not been a ninja hobbit on crack, it would not have awed audiences; Yoda busts a kung fu pose which was lame as hell; Yoda is too damn lazy to physically draw his lightsaber.

I have to give GL some credit... He knows that modern viewers are more awed by shiny and glowy rather than a fine plot. But anyways, Force Lightning doesn't burn Sidious's hands. It doesn't catch his cloak on fire, it doesn't make Dooku's nails peel back. Why would it hurt Vader if he could control it? The only half assed explanation I could offer people not willing to believe this is one nasty plot hole is that he never mastered it before becoming Cyrax... erm... I mean, Vader... and he didn't want to risk frying himself. Besides, it's not like he needed it.

The thing is, if people want a good explanation, the "his arms are robotic and they couldn't use it" explanation simply isn't good enough.

Like I said, lightening does not touch the user, it is generated OUTSIDE of the body.

Every force power is merely re-arranging atoms or moving molecules. Lightening is a result of a strong focus of force to gather electrons. Anyone with a finely tuned sense of the force can do it. It wouldn't even touch Vader.

The ONLY explanation is that Vader never needed force lightening.

To say that Vader doesn't use his hand to channel the force is absurd. Yes he does. Force choke anyone? Deflecting laser bolts maybe? Vader can use his mechanical arms to channel the force, simple as that. Therefore, lightening is well within his grasp, seeing it is merely atomic manipulation outside of the body.

The force merely moves things around, how you apply it is what defines the abilities. Force choke, force lightening, force anything, all comes under the same umbrella - moving atoms, electrons and particles at will.

I agree about it not being dangerous for vader to use. Luke got hit with it point blank for a long time and his clothes didn't even get burned, so of course vader and his suit would be just fine if he was the one shooting the lightning out of his robotic stump.

Although I can't agree with you that Vader didn't need it. He obviously did need it because Luke gave him a beat down at the end, and if he had the skill, he could have used it to beat Luke, or at least bring him to a squirming, screaming little b1tch like the emperor did.

Vader needed it and he should have had it, but he didn't and that is the most frustrating inconsistancy of the movie series for me.

I agree, incosistancy and cheap explanations, but the movies are still great.
Darth Maul in Episode I videogame was able to shoot lightnings, but I think that in the movie in wasn't showed cause his fighting style relies more on the saber and physical skills, he used force push and telekinesis to aid himself when strictly necessary, like when he moved the piece of droid to open the door, or the force push to knockback Obi-Wan.It was a kind of warrior code that prevents him to use the force in a cheap way.
Dooku on the other hand uses both force push and lightnings cause he's an old master with great experience and high level of mastery over the force.
I think that Anakin himself didn't use force lightnings even after becoming a Sith Lord cause he don't know how to, maybe Sidious didn't told him how to use them cause Anakin was becoming very powerful in quick time, and he was fearing that he could become a major threat to his position of Sith Master and leader of the future Empire.
Or maybe Anakin himself relies on the sword and physical skills like Maul, plus the use of force push or tk when strictly necessary, Sith doesn't mean: "Hey I'm a freakin Sith, it's lightning bolt time!"

I always thought that maul didn't use lightning because he viewed it as a crutch, preferring to take people down directly.

Originally posted by Vanquish

Although I can't agree with you that Vader didn't need it. He obviously did need it because Luke gave him a beat down at the end, and if he had the skill, he could have used it to beat Luke, or at least bring him to a squirming, screaming little b1tch like the emperor did.

Vader needed it and he should have had it, but he didn't and that is the most frustrating inconsistancy of the movie series for me.

I'm not sure Vader would have the same powerfull lightning as the emperor, so I'm not sure he could have used it to his advantage against luke. Luke was probably to powerfull to fall for Vaders tricks, because otherwise when Vader really wanted to win he could have used his favorite trick, force grip on luke. I think the battle between Vader and Luke only could be fought with a saber. Talking about grip I think it was the skill Vader prefered to use instead of lightning.

The lightning would still be touching Vader's fingertips right? So if their was any copper or silver or anything else that conducted electricity or heat in his metal hands, Vader would be damaged by it.

Maul has balls.. does he need to flash in the film to prove to you he has them? Maul was an arrogant sob who wanted to demean the jedi by beating them with raw skill of the saber. Dooku's a little ***** who force lightning's ani becuase he was offguard. Dookus old.. why take on 2 if you don't have too. It just IS that way... I don't see how I confused the issue, u're just confusing yourself.

Force lightning? I'll say again. I agree Red Superfly. But georges more detailed explenation is 'the force is in EVERYTHING'. Energy in jedi and sith beings. FOR SITH POWER the energy is transfered from themselves like all other sith powers. The living force is everywhere but not the darkside. They can only attain dark power from themselves... Just look at real electricity. Build up enough static, the body does transmit electricity from the body. It's plausable, but again.. I agree with Red Superfly...

And this forum shouldn't have been moved, it attains to all starwars and there's tonnes of forums just like it in the Episode 3 discussion.. moderation is screwed. 😄

Originally posted by Red Superfly
It's just the whole rationalising BS for why we don't see Vader do it.

The "it will short circuit his suit" explanation is utter bullshit.

How would it? And like Vanquish stated, the hands are just ONE way of expelling the lightning.

Think about it, lightning is just force push. You use the force to collect electrons in the air and concentrate them into lightening. Vader easily has the power to summon lightening.

It doesn't come from INSIDE the person either, because it it frmed outside of the person doing. Another explanation as to why Vader robotic arms should not be an issue.

Also, Vader can't do it in Episode III because he isn't a master. By Episode IV he should be easily able to do it. Lucas should have just said "he didn't need it" rather than "he can't do it".

My point was that even if Vader lost his ability to use force lightening, he could still have lightening powers. He's a genius mechanic, he'd easily be able to make his arms fire lightening at twice the power.

Vader keeps getting weaker and weaker with these crappy explanations.

Who the heck gave you the idea that this is the main reason?

Vader has lost a lot of his power by then, that struck me as a rather good reason.

In fact, we don't have any particualr reason to think that he is an amazing force user. What have we seen him do? Choke a few people and throw a few things. Woo-hoo.

Face it, Vader is not in Dooku's class- no matter how much you want him to be.

every experianced force user can do it. as well as force grip. but dont because it is a very cruel force power to use and jedi arent cruel.

ubidoobascooby, your sig rules.

Vader not using lightning is not a contrivance or bs. In fact the idea of creating circuitry in his hands to do it is far more contrived than simply stating that he does not have the ability due to his lack of hands. Furthermore where is it ever stated that force lightning is simply a force push of electrons?

Originally posted by Lord Banshee
Force lightning is an aggresive use of the force so jedi would NEVER EVER use it. Jedi only use the force for defence, never for attack.

Darth Maul is centainly able to do force lightning, he just didnt do it in the movie.
And Vader cant do it because he has robotic hands (it is explained in the rots visual dictionary)

I thought he only got one hand cut off?

In response to Mace Skywalker: Lord Vader has two cybernetic arms, as detailed on this web page: <theforce.net/swtc/injuries.html>
Also in response to Umraan: In ROTJ Luke Skywalker uses the force grip on the guards when first entering Jabba's palace. Now to the topic of the forum. If the reason Lord Vader can't do force lightning is because he has two cybernetic arms, then why can he do the force grip/choke. If he can use his hands to direct the force in one way why not another? Also, maybe the reason that he cannot do force lightning is because Palpatine didn't want to teach him to. In ROTS, Palpatine speaks of the story of Darth Plagues the Wise, which is that Darth Plagues taught his apprentice all he knew, and then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Maybe the reason Palpatine withheld the knowledge of how to do force lightning from Lord Vader is because he feared for his life, and did not want to risk suffering the fate of Darth Plagues. And in ROTS, Palpatine acknowledges the fact that Lord Vader can become more powerful than him. (He says this while fighting Yoda). So My guess is that he is trying to prevent this from happening.

Originally posted by Lord Banshee
Force lightning is an aggresive use of the force so jedi would NEVER EVER use it. Jedi only use the force for defence, never for attack.

Darth Maul is centainly able to do force lightning, he just didnt do it in the movie.
And Vader cant do it because he has robotic hands (it is explained in the rots visual dictionary)

But there is a problem with the Robotic hand theory, why can vader use Force Choke and Force Push with his Robotic limbs if he cant use force lighting with robotic arms.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Vader not using lightning is not a contrivance or bs. In fact the idea of creating circuitry in his hands to do it is far more contrived than simply stating that he does not have the ability due to his lack of hands. Furthermore where is it ever stated that force lightning is simply a force push of electrons?

Because logic would assume that's where it comes from. Lightning doesn't hurt the user, so it can't be touching them can it?

And, seeing as the Force is an energy, that holds us all together and binds us, then it's pretty damn obvious that lightning is just a way of re-arranging certain electrons again. The force's "magic" works with the universes "science". Science and religion tend to compliment each other, as Lucas has stated before, as opposed to disprove each other.

The idea that Vader simply lost power is decent enough. I don't see any reason as to why his mechanical limbs would have anything to do with not being able to use lightning, thats all.

It's probably because the force choke is his trademark and not the force lightning.

Vader can't use Force lightnig, due to mechanical hands and cyborg attachments. Force Lightning requires power from the Living Force and it is part of the Dark Side of the Force. That is why Jedi don't use it.

You'd think he'd just put step up transformers in his gloves and channel it through his stumps, through the transformers, to make stronger lightning.