Force lightning question

Remember, force lightning is correctly known as Sith Lightning. It is known that 'The Jedi possess no exact equivalent to such a dark use of the force'. All sith would have the ability to conjure it, but it clearly takes years of experience. Maul and Anakin were both young, insufficient experience to conjure Sith Lightning. Tyranus on the other hand, was only just beginnig to understand sith lightning. Dooku uses one handed Sith lightning, unable to se the full strength of two. It is important to remember that. The most powerful conjurer of lightning was Sidious

AS for Yoda, he is unable to conjure it. The Jedi cannot. It equires complete dedication to the dark side. Yoda is the only Jedi I know who can deflect Sith Lightning.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
To say that Vader doesn't use his hand to channel the force is absurd. Yes he does. Force choke anyone?

In Ep V didn't Vader Force Choke what's his name for coming out of Lightspeed too close to Hoth without using his hands?

Yeah, I wasn't disputing that. Some people just take things completely out of context and twist words just for the sake of being stupid.

Originally posted by adamrubin
in the game anakin uses force lightning when he is evil and he uses his robotic hand

so what, cheese boy?

Originally posted by Red Superfly
Some people just take things completely out of context and twist words just for the sake of being stupid.

Sorry that wasn't what I meant. I was trying to just back up the idea that he doesn't need to use his hands to direct it. Sorry.

I'm not sure its true that vader can't use force lightning. In EpIII the game, Darth vader can use lightning both in and out of the suit. The reason he didn't use it in the movies is because George Lucas didn't think of it until Ep 6, and he couldn't suddenly make vader use it. The audience would say 'hold up, how long has he been able to do this' and the movie may get a bad write up. Even so, I believe that vader can use lightning. He is the definition of powerful. Vader rules.

As for the games, I don't consider the movie games canonical because they must include force lightning because it will attract more players, because children get a kick out of frying people with it! So just because Maul or Vader does it in the games, doesn't mean they can actually do it.

Every Jedi/Sith focuses on different skills of the force. Jedi Knight Jedi Academy shows us this. I believe any Sith could use lightning if that was one of their skills, but Vader didn't choose to embrace it. Maul was an elite swordsman, so he didn't need lightning. Dooku has it but wasn't near as powerful with it as Sidious. Vader could have had it, but he chose to focus on his skills with the blade as well as force grip instead. I don't like the statement that he couldn't do it because of his suit, but I have no problem with him not having done it.

The debate rages on.

Look, Vader can't use it. He never does. He never will, unless GL gets tired of hatemail from Vader fanboys.

Now, Dooku can use it. Maul may be able to use it, but he doesn't. Actually, Maul relies very little on the Force, using it for simple, almost silly reasons. Dooku's knowledge of the Force is enough to stalemate with Yoda (Or so it appears in AOTC). In ROTS, he Force chokes a Jedi Master (Obi-Wan) and chucks him like a ragdoll. Instead of everyone saying he shouldn't have used it, I would expect to see arguments saying he should be the only one besides Sidious to use it. I mean, Sidious was the top dark lord. It's only natural for him. And Count Dooku is an eighty year old former Jedi master with about ten years of Sith training, at least. If he can't do Force lightning, no one should be able to.

Vader cannot do it. its not in the movies.

Maul cannot do it. its not in the movies.

Dooku can do it.

Palpatine can do it.

Yoda cannot for obvious reasons that you need to be extremly powerful in the darkside.

btw, Dooku is far more skilled then maul in every way possible.

Maul was more of a pawn of Sidious...it never seemed like he had a mind of his own. I don't consider him a very powerful Sith lord, although he was very skilled in martial arts. Dooku IMO is a lot more powerful than he is given credit for. Although he wasn't as strong in the force as Vader, he had far more experience, giving him greater skill. Anakin really showed his power when he beat Dooku though. Just because Vader couldn't do lightning, doesn't mean he wasn't the second most powerful Sith of all time. Think about it....vader's signature skill...choke, is far more deadly than Lightning. Sure, it doesn't look as flashy, but if you really want to do some damage fast, choke is a much better way to do it. It takes a lot of lightning to kill a person...look at how long Luke was tormented, and although he writhed in pain, he still lived.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Vader cannot do it. its not in the movies.

Maul cannot do it. its not in the movies.

Dooku can do it.

Palpatine can do it.

Yoda cannot for obvious reasons that you need to be extremly powerful in the darkside.

btw, Dooku is far more skilled then maul in every way possible.

I don't think Vader ever used a Force Jump in the OT, doesn't mean he can't

I think it's a lame excuse that vader has robot hans and thats why he cant use lightning. I though it came from the force which is from the midichlorians in their body, not their hands. Wouldent a sith just be able to use his mind to use lightning. I think Vader can't do it in the OT because GL wanted Palpatine seem much more powerful than him.

Originally posted by beedubaya
vader's signature skill...choke, is far more deadly than Lightning.

I agree fully; Vader didn't use lightening because he didn't need to. I'd expect even the Emperor would start considering his own mortality if his throat started closing. It's more stealthy as well - look at how Luke entered Jabba's palace. He walked in, waved his hand and the guards collapsed against the walls. Plus, Vader can use Force Choke without even being present. Could anyone have put lightning through the video screen to burn Admiral Ozzel? I think not. Lighning is not all it's cracked up to be, and it can be deflected with a lightsaber. Nuff said...

Vader cannot do it. its not in the movies.

Maul cannot do it. its not in the movies.

Dooku can do it.

Palpatine can do it.

Yoda cannot for obvious reasons that you need to be extremly powerful in the darkside.

btw, Dooku is far more skilled then maul in every way possible.

You have to be careful with that line of rational though man, because Yoda never took a $hit in the movies either, but I assume he knows how 🙂

Just because something didn't take place in the movies, doesn't mean it can't. I think that is the very essense of why these forums have such long debates. If it was so cut and dry to just say, if its not in the movie it didn't happen. Well, then this forum wouldn't exist now would it?

Figures.

If Force choke was something Vader could just do to other Jedi in combat, he would have Force choked everone from Han Solo to Luke Skywalker to Sidious (Since he clearly hated Sidious). I think you're mistaking a power that was used on non-Force users and applying it as something more then it is. I would HOPE that a Force user could counter the telekinesis behind a Force choke, seeing as it's an extension of the Force.

Now, Sith lightning is something completely unnatural, and while it can be blocked, it's obviously stronger than a choke. If it wasn't, Sidious would just Force choke Luke when he said "And now you will die" or he would have Force choked Mace Windu, Obi-Wan, Yoda, etc.

So take that idea and flush it. It's stupid.

Second, Dooku may have been beaten by Anakin (And it was a good move by the boy, but Dooku was clearly toying with him.) but his Force mastery beats Anakin's Force potential every time. ROTS Anakin, at the height of his pre-suit power, could not overcome Obi-Wan in a Force shoving match... and yet Dooku can throw Obi-Wan around like a ragdoll. Where comes the logic that Anakin was better?

Second, Dooku may have been beaten by Anakin (And it was a good move by the boy, but Dooku was clearly toying with him.) but his Force mastery beats Anakin's Force potential every time. ROTS Anakin, at the height of his pre-suit power, could not overcome Obi-Wan in a Force shoving match... and yet Dooku can throw Obi-Wan around like a ragdoll. Where comes the logic that Anakin was better?

Off Topic, but thank you, i'm glad i'm not the only one that thinks that. I thought the movies made it quite clear actually that Dooku was on a level much beyond Anakin. I don't think it should have been that way because he is supposed to be at his prime, but it clearly was. Dooku was on a level, approaching palps and Yoda actually. I'm sure either palps or Yoda could have made short work of Dooku in a fight, but still, he was the third most powerful person in the trilogies. Anakin was never portrayed as being that powerful actually. The only time he gets close, is in the Dooku fight, and lets face it, Dooku and palps had a plan that he would intentionally lose that fight. Dooku just didn't know he was getting played by palps that's all. If Dooku wanted to, he would have won that fight.

Exactly. Yes, I thought so from the moment I saw the movie.

Duh it takes anger and peace over anger honor ove hat and strength over fear

yeah, i always thorght Dooku was much better than Anakin

I don't think Dooku threw the fight with Anakin. I'd imagine rather the opposite, that Sideous told him to destroy Anakin. If Dooku could destroy Anakin, Sideous would have no use for him, much the same way he then pitted Vader against Anakin. The Sideous/Windu fight I find more debatalbe, because for a guy who supposedly got his ass so badly kicked, Sideous got up fully recovered pretty fast.

As to the hands, the Star Wars Visual dictonary (Which I would consider as cannon for obvious reasons) states it outright: Vader cannot use force lightning because force lightning needes to be created inside the hands. As to making "Conductive hands", it woudln't work. Needs to be living hands. Same reason that jedi can do all those super acrobatic acts that vader no longer can: he cannot channel the force into his arms and legs. The same principles are why vader was hurt by force lightning so badly: His life support was shorted out.

Hands are not needed for force chocking or general telekinesis, though I'm guessing so many people do it because it feels natural to do so. However, if hands were needed for telekinesis, Luke couldn't have lifted those rocks in ESB, nor could Vader have pummeled him with all those objects.

Now, if we go into EU for a moment, force storm is basically what happens when you create force lightning without using your hands. I imagine in theory vader could learn that, and did show an early ability in it in Splinter of the minds eye (which, I concede right now, is probaby the most logically non-cannonical of all the books) though I imagine force storm compared to force lighting is particularly hard.

At any rate, back to definitie canon, vader can't use force lightning, he can use force choke. Not to mention it's kinda his preferred move, so of course he's good at it. Displays the best range with the stuff of anybody in the movie. Obviously a lot of practice.