Luke CAN'T be that strong of a jedi

Originally posted by Vanquish
Sorry Luke fans, but I just don't see how Luke can be considered a strong Jedi. Sure he has the genes and the potential, but that isn't enough. He was just too poorly trained to be strong at the time of ROTJ. Even Anakin, the chosen one needed to be trained for many years before he became powerful and even after long years of training under one of the best masters, he still lost most of his fights.

Simply because of his incredibly poor training, wouldn't he have to be one of the weakest Jedi ever?

Well done for totally missing the whole point.

"Jedi training, the sole source of self-discipline is not." - Yoda, Episode III novelization

"You must do what you feel is right, of course." - Ben Kenobi, A New Hope

"Wars not make one great." - Yoda, The Empire Stirkes Back

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." - Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back

"Never! I'll never turn to the dark side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me." - Luke Skywalker, Return of the Jedi

Luke got the best training of all.
Luke showed true strength.

He became a Jedi but he was no fighter

I think Luke was a Jedi but the only reason he won is because his Father didn't really wan't to kill him. If he had a fight with Dooku or Maul he would be toast. BUT there is one thing, if Sidius is so powerful why didn't he turn on his lightsaber in ROTJ and slice luke into little pieces. He should have sensed that Vader would turn on him, after all even Luke was able to see the future in TESB.

Originally posted by yodafan
I think Luke was a Jedi but the only reason he won is because his Father didn't really wan't to kill him. If he had a fight with Dooku or Maul he would be toast. BUT there is one thing, if Sidius is so powerful why didn't he turn on his lightsaber in ROTJ and slice luke into little pieces. He should have sensed that Vader would turn on him, after all even Luke was able to see the future in TESB.

He didn't expect it. The future is clouded no matter how clear it may seem... Yoda says so himself, and why didn't he kill Luke? Because he wanted Vader to do it. Vader should have killed Luke or be killed. That was the real test to see if his apprentice was worthy and if not he could immediately get a new apprentice.

SPOILER:

Remember also that Palpy does the same thing in ROTS in the Windu duel. He brings himself to the mercy of Windu, hoping that Anakin turns to the darkside. I guess it is a leap of faith. He knows that if he can't turn Anakin to the dark side, he can't execute his plans, so he mine as well risk it all to persue his goals. It works, and Anakin helps him.

In ROTJ, same situation. He knows that he needs an apprentice still. He figures, he doesn't care if it's Vader or Luke, he just needs one of them. So, simply let them duel it out and the winner will have killed a family member, obviously prolonging Anakins dark side, or turning Luke to the dark side. Either way, he wins. He just didn't see the X factor, of Vader actually turning on him.

Vader isn't weak, so maybe he can hide things from Palpy in the same way that Palpy was able to hide things from the Jedi council for all those years. Maybe he can hide the love deep down that he felt for Luke from Palpy right to the final moment.

Originally posted by mossman
Well done for totally missing the whole point.

[b]"Jedi training, the sole source of self-discipline is not." - Yoda, Episode III novelization

"You must do what you feel is right, of course." - Ben Kenobi, A New Hope

"Wars not make one great." - Yoda, The Empire Stirkes Back

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." - Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back

"Never! I'll never turn to the dark side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me." - Luke Skywalker, Return of the Jedi

Luke got the best training of all.
Luke showed true strength. [/B]

exactly. In the end Luke proved to be stronger than even his father

In ROTJ, I agree he wasn't a very powerful Jedi. Mace Windu or Ki-Adi-Mundi probably could have eaten him for breakfast. NJO Luke is obviously very powerful after all his trials, though.

[edit]

can you tell me where your shag spot is

Don't post nonsense like that in this forum. This will be your only warning darth marinus.

I don't know what it is about people misquoting me all the time. For those who can't read very well, this isn't a discussion about whether Luke becomes powerful in NJO or anything like that when he is older. I clearly said:

He was just too poorly trained to be strong at the time of ROTJ

Some people think Luke was very well trained and very powerful at the time of ROTJ, but I totally disagree. That is what the thread was meant to discuss.

I could honestly give a shit whether EU says Luke is the strongest ever. The movies clearly paint him out to be a farm boy with little or no real Jedi skills. I mean the kid had to actually throw the rock to close the gate on that monster. Any other half way decent 10 year old Padawan would simply have used the force to toss the rock at the control panel. But not douchebag Luke. He had to pick it up, aim, and throw it and hope like hell he hit it.

He's a tool, and Vader could have sliced and diced him in roughly 3 seconds if he wanted to.

Well duh...

This may be a little off topic but why are the Lars family so angry at Ben for, rememeber Owen didnt want Luke to talk to him because they said he was a crazy hermit.

They just might get a little attached to Luke after those years. As soon as he would meet ben, he would be taken with him to do what he is foreseen to be doing in the future.

Why couldn't Ben just keep him and train him from the birth?

can someone who reads EU books please explain this, I would most appreciate, thx in advance.

Because then the emporer would have sensed Luke and Obi-wan's power, which was what they were trying to avoid.

Some people think Luke was very well trained and very powerful at the time of ROTJ, but I totally disagree.

What do you mean by power?
What is true "power"?
I think you are missing the whole point of the saga here.
"Wars not make one great"

I could honestly give a shit whether EU says Luke is the strongest ever.

I agree.

The movies clearly paint him out to be a farm boy with little or no real Jedi skills.

Well, if by "the movies" you mean half of ANH, then I might entertain
your unique standpoint.

I mean the kid had to actually throw the rock to close the gate on that monster.

LOL

Any other half way decent 10 year old Padawan would simply have used the force to toss the rock at the control panel. But not douchebag Luke. He had to pick it up, aim, and throw it and hope like hell he hit it.

He's a far more human hero, that is his power.

He's a tool, and Vader could have sliced and diced him in roughly 3 seconds if he wanted to.

I take it you've never watched ROTJ any futher than the Rancor bit then - I recommend you do...
🙄

if you know anything the padawans of the old jedi order would simply hit the switch with the forc second luke was still training to be a jedi. all he had was some files from obi-wons place on tattoin so he had to teach himself and i dont get were people come up with obi-wons spirit teaching him. they only gave him guigence when he truly needed it like when he destroyed the first death star. plus his uncle Owen wouldnt let oby-won teach him as a child because he didnt want him to be like his father.

luke gets better in the EU maby he's windus level

Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav
luke gets better in the EU maby he's windus level

In EU, he is at Windu's level. But, I believe we're talking about the movie.

However, you make a good point. In EU, he's at Windu's level, perhaps surpassing him even at one point.