episode 3 will show why jedi really lost(spoilers)

I was just discussing this with my fiance today on the way to her mom's, how Lucas did a very good job of setting up how dictators and "evil" people come to be. You don't just wake up one morning and decide to kill your friends. The truth is, evil people think they're right and just or they wouldn't do what they do. A history teacher I had in high school put us through a very eye opening lesson. She held a mock election under the guise of teaching us about democracy, and had two canidates. One was very appealing, had very well thought out reasons for change and solutions to problems. By the end of the election, this canidate won, and ended up being Hitler. The other was Roosevelt and our teacher used their exact election strategies to show us that if some one comes to you with all this confidence, and their solutions to your problems seem really solid and well thought out, you'd be more than willing to go with that thought process, and in the case of Hitler, end up being led down a steadily growing path to a more evil life with out even knowing it. And that's really what happened to Anakin and the Republic, they believed Palpatine and before they knew it, they were the bad guys and they never even realise it until its too late. I think that's one part of Star Wars Lucas more than handled correctly. I just hope Joe Moviegoer can see past their own movie plots long enough to understand the more real world honesty in this portion of the story, and not just be mad cuz Anakin doesn't enjoy and revel in being "bad" rather than commit wrong in the guise of righteousness.

too much thinking...not enough lightsabers😛

Read:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f4/t331965.html

I totally agree with that post in the other thread in regards to Anakin's fall. Qui-gon would have allowed Anakin his emotions, but taught him to use them, channel them, into some sort of outlet rather than simply tell him to bury them and ignore them. Ignoring emotions only increases stress and anger. Very good post mtryder.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
I totally agree with that post in the other thread in regards to Anakin's fall. Qui-gon would have allowed Anakin his emotions, but taught him to use them, channel them, into some sort of outlet rather than simply tell him to bury them and ignore them. Ignoring emotions only increases stress and anger. Very good post mtryder.

Hatred is also an emotion. I doubt Qui-Gon would allow Anakin to vent his hatred or use it to his advantage.

I have to say Obi Wan is similar to Anikin which is why they always clash. Qui-Gon was more patient. Also in TPM Obi Wan seems jealous that Qui-Gon is very eager to train Anikin.

Originally posted by palpy_666
Hatred is also an emotion. I doubt Qui-Gon would allow Anakin to vent his hatred or use it to his advantage.

No, not vent it, but understand it, accept it, and let go of it.

Obi not jealous of skywalker just felt he was dangerous.....if anyone jealous was Mace! haha

[Own fear.

In dealing with Palpatine, they needed to bring Anakin, the faith in his abilities which this act would have shown Anakin, would have been enough to keep him on their side. That's all Anakin ever wanted, acceptance and respect. and they ('specially Mace) never tried to do that. They also, as someone else pointed out, needed to wait for Yoda to go with them. I think they rushed into facing Palpatine without first panning a real attack strategy, and secondly, figuring out a way to do it that wouldn't have such terrible repercussions for their order. I think they learned about rushing into facing the Sith unprepared, and that's why yoda was so adamant about Luke not making the same mistake in ESB.

Anakin doesn't really care about the whole respect thing although it is on his list. It has been stated he is hungry for power he basically wants to become all powerful E.g a god.

Originally posted by SithKiller
Obi not jealous of skywalker just felt he was dangerous.....if anyone jealous was Mace! haha

Exactly!

First off, Anakin is not even the Chosen One. If you pay enough attention, Kyle Katarn is. He brought balance after Jerec's defeat at the Valley of the Jedi.

2: I saw the movie, so I know what goes on. Anakin wanted to learn how to keep people from dying so he could keep Padme alive. But the pull of the Dark Side and the Lies of Sidious are hard to resist. Anakin kept believing Sidious until the Dark Side consumed him so much he didn't think anymore. His choking of Padme should've woke him up and made him realize who he was, but because of Obi-Wan standing there, he believed Padme betrayed him. But I think it is a bit cold-hearted that Obi-Wan left him there to burn. He claims "You were like a brother, I loved you!" If he were any kind of brother, he would've brought anakin out. If Obi-Wan brought him out, he would've been redeemed earlier. But he became what he fought against.

Originally posted by Tulak Hord
First off, Anakin is not even the Chosen One. If you pay enough attention, Kyle Katarn is. He brought balance after Jerec's defeat at the Valley of the Jedi.

2: I saw the movie, so I know what goes on. Anakin wanted to learn how to keep people from dying so he could keep Padme alive. But the pull of the Dark Side and the Lies of Sidious are hard to resist. Anakin kept believing Sidious until the Dark Side consumed him so much he didn't think anymore. His choking of Padme should've woke him up and made him realize who he was, but because of Obi-Wan standing there, he believed Padme betrayed him. But I think it is a bit cold-hearted that Obi-Wan left him there to burn. He claims "You were like a brother, I loved you!" If he were any kind of brother, he would've brought anakin out. If Obi-Wan brought him out, he would've been redeemed earlier. But he became what he fought against.

Luca said anikin is the chosen one in a interview, i will take the creators word for it thank you 😉

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
Luca said anikin is the chosen one in a interview, i will take the creators word for it thank you 😉

Maybe Lucas doesn't know of everything, but it is said "In the Valley of the Jedi, Kyle Katarn slew Jerec, thus fulfilling an ancient Jedi Prophecy." Not those words exactly, but it's said he fulfilled a prophecy. And even Yoda says they might have misread the prophecy in the movie.

the jedi lost, in my opinion, because they were reactive instead of pro actuve.

I think you made an interesting point though about another reason Yoda might have been so adiment that Luke go prepared and be ready to face Vader, is because he would still remember how when the Jedi tried to face the emporer how grossly unprepared and overconfident they were in this and how, in the end, it was one of the things that ultimatley lead to their defeat. I think thats a good observation.

Luke was going off to face the dark side in order to save the ones he loved.

Annikan turned to the dark side in order to save the one he loved.

i think Yoda saw the connection and feared Luke to make the same mistake his father did, hence his adimentance (I don't even think that is a word.)