Official Doctor Who Thread

God Kill the Mon was godawful. It's not the resolution (breaking point/character development is all fine, not that ti seemed to count for much in the end)- it's the utterly insane and ridiculous plot, from the 'moon is an egg' thing to the ridiculous 'poll the Earth' (or half the Earth) (that has electricity) (and also ignore it)- just far too far divorced from any sort of possible grounding, even for Doctor Who. The absolute worse of lazy, nonsensical science, totally unresolved plot points and unbelievable actions. It's also trumped in every way by Waters of Mars.

It's got pretty well trashed, though it has now been trumped by Forest of the Night which is now a candidate for worst new Who episode ever. Fan backlash on that one is massive, so KTM has become forgotten. It's brought back memories of the equally dire Fear Her, with which it has several similarities- irony here is that last week's Flatline, which was good, was in many ways Fear Her done well.

Yeah, I got a Water of Mars vibe at one point, and obviously it trumps Kill the Moon by a lot.

Fear Her was ok in a campy sort of way. The Tennant/Rose chemistry saved a lot of mediocre episodes in that season, though. Only Smith/Pond is comparable in its ability to singlehandedly overcome a poor script.

I guess I'm just content to wallow through the sub-par to average episodes as long as we get some really good stuff like Orient Express and Listen. I'm oddly interested to watch Forest of the Night, though. Not that I anticipate bad episodes, but if it's already confirmed as bad, might as well see just HOW bad.

But there's always down episodes in seasons, with basically no exceptions. The format of the show pretty much mandates this kind of variability. If the payoff is satisfying enough, or if we get enough individually great episodes, it's always redeemable.

So far there has been more bad then good episodes. I really like Capaldi, but the writing really hasn't been to amazing.

Capaldi has a run of good lines in Forest- pretty much what keeps it watchable. Reminds me of Patrick Troughton in some respects- he was the only reason to watch many of his stories.

And indeed, Doctor Who has always been a show of ups and downs. It's why it's easy to hang on- it changes so much that if you see a crap episode it will all be forgotten about soon after. Still, the Matt Smith era saw a kind of flattening of it all- fewer stand outs in either direction, classic or terrible. This season has been a bit more like the RTD days for the slide between love and hate.

Originally posted by -K-M-
So far there has been more bad then good episodes. I really like Capaldi, but the writing really hasn't been to amazing.

I'd have to look back to past seasons to see if I agree. I also wonder if some of it isn't us getting used to the formula and subconsciously judging each new episode against how good we know it can be. I suspect it was easier for bad episodes to slide in the early seasons, because the show hadn't amassed dozens of excellent episodes yet.

But on a gut level, I agree with you. Though Sherwood was the only one so far that I was profoundly disappointed in (though I haven't made it to Flatline and Forest yet). A lot of them were just kinda meh. Forgettable but not terrible.

I wonder if some of it is that Moffat isn't involved in some of the world-building that RTD was. Everything - everything - from seasons 1-4, including the EU with Torchwood and Sarah Jane, built around one another and interlocked in several places. Moffat's greatest triumph - the 50th special - was when he tied back into that.

Maybe it's impossible to expect the same constantly. But the fact that seasons and storylines in the Smith/Capaldi era seem much more self-contained is something I've noticed. The Season 4 team-up payoff, campy as it was if you just look at the plot, was magical. And even during the whole season, Donna was the companion, Martha made a guest appearance, and the season was ACTUALLY about Rose. Unless they pull River and Jack back in, we're nearing the end of Clara's run (I suspect) and there's nothing to build on at the moment.

I really liked Flatline, but disliked Forest a great deal.

Will say the effects in Flatline were pretty darn impressive.

Well, other than the final reveal- which was kinda exactly what I didn't want it to be- Dark Water was an excellent first part to a two parter. Of course, the story has to be judged as a whole (and the 'twist' may or may not be re-examined), so we shall see.

Irritatingly, this story was also a but promo-ruined- it was set up very well to disguise the identity of one of the villains (two reveals in one story- certainly distinctive!), but they blew it all in advance from the Next Time trailer to the adverts to the TV listings. I guess thy thought it would be too hard to hide, but still a shame- because it's the best use of that villain in a long time ndeed.

Amazingly, it's been three and a half years since the last two part story (and that one was not very memorable).

Anyway, it was dark and serious and intense; scary for the kids and worked well on what they had built on all series for both Clara and The Doctor. If the second part is good, we have a straight classic.

Spoiler:
I had a feeling she would be a Time Lord, but didn't expect her to be revealed as the Master...hmmmmm...fanfiction writers are going to love that

Im watching it now. Clara is an idiot.

That would have been so good if not for that final reveal. Seriously, I was hoping so hard for it to be

Spoiler:
Romana

Yeah the final reveal has put a downer on the story for a lot of people it seems- it was what a lot of people feared. It's not my ideal scenario- but I'll wait for the second part before any serious post mortem. Regardless, I don't want that to take away from the general quality of the episode.

Clara to me was believably desperate rather than an idiot. Also the Doctor was being awesome for that first section, so it's all good.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yeah the final reveal has put a downer on the story for a lot of people it seems- it was what a lot of people feared. It's not my ideal scenario- but I'll wait for the second part before any serious post mortem. Regardless, I don't want that to take away from the general quality of the episode.

Clara to me was believably desperate rather than an idiot. Also the Doctor was being awesome for that first section, so it's all good.

Flatline was excellent. Classic episode. I hope we see the return of those things at some point. That makes three excellent episodes in this season so far, which is probably enough for me to call it a success unless it falls on its face in the finale.

I can understand the hate over Forest, but my reaction was more ambivalence than loathing. Not worth dwelling on it though, since it's sandwiched between the wonderful Flatline and the two-part finale.

And...well...ok. I need to get my geek on with the finale. I'll get to the episode in a second. But I'm an irrationally big fan of Murray Gold's work on the series, and he loves "seeding" episodes with musical hints. The musical hint for the

Spoiler:
Cybermen

The hint for

Spoiler:
The Master

So that was incredibly fun. Every now and then being a beyond-the-show nerd pays off, even if it's just in small ways. This was one of those times.

I'm a little upset I didn't wait to watch the two-parter together, because it really has to be judged as a whole. I guess I'll have more on it next week. I'm a sucker for epic villain stuff, though, so I'll likely be easy to please.

Ended up watching "deep breath" again. Now that I think about it much of the season seemed like it was an introspective look at the doctor.
ep 1 - was the 12th wondering how much of the "original" doctor is left after so many regenerations.
ep 2- was about how he let his hatred of daleks turn into prejudice
ep3- was whether he can still believe in the old school concepts of classic heroes and villians.
ep 4- Is about how fear is one of his driving forces
ep 8- A question of how much should he interfere?
10- How being a good doctor is not the same as being a good person.

... and they cocked it up. Damn it.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
... and they cocked it up. Damn it.

Really, I have not seen it yet, but Dark Water was excellent. Was it that bad?

It's not 'Last of the Time Lords' bad, but it misses the mark. A lot of emotional mush, and they blew the cybermen as a credible threat again.

17 mins in and really like Missy as a character

But Mistress is glorious isn`t she? They had quite a lot of courage to make Master transgender.