Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
they are you just don't notice them becuase humans are selfish.we ask for things we don't need.
Originally posted by Alliance
Thats called ... making arbitrary connections and atrributing them to a god to create a self-sustaning dilusion.
Originally posted by Soleran😠
👆
Originally posted by peejaydI believe it's called the "Law of Attraction", "Sowing and Reaping", "Cause and Effect", Since I believe the creation process is still going on, we can still create. That's why in so many other briefs it's not wise to pray for anything negative.......It only comes back to haunt you.....
* examine first what you ask in your prayer..."Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts ."
James 4:3* if the outcome will be of your downfall, your wish will surely not be granted... 😉
"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust ."
Matthew 5:45* the Father is a God of justice... 😉
"Neither is he served by men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself giveth to all life, and breath, and all things ;"
The Acts 17:25* and God is the Provider of all... 😉
Originally posted by debbiejo
😠
😠 I LIKE MY POINT 😠
Originally posted by debbiejo
I believe it's called the "Law of Attraction", "Sowing and Reaping", "Cause and Effect", Since I believe the creation process is still going on, we can still create. That's why in so many other briefs it's not wise to pray for anything negative.......It only comes back to haunt you.....
I don't like the law of attraction. Good things happen to bad people and vise versa. I don't attribute it to a direct consequence of their actions.
If your god is so great and all powerful, how can you (the lowly serf <ahem> human) judge what is "negative" for you.
Originally posted by AllianceA person like me can't......That's the whole point. The law of attraction, doesn't not stop bad things from happening to good people at all....The Law of Attraction is ONLY pulling to yourself what a person dwells on....
😠 I LIKE MY POINT 😠I don't like the law of attraction. Good things happen to bad people and vise versa. I don't attribute it to a direct consequence of their actions.
If your god is so great and all powerful, how can you (the lowly serf <ahem> human) judge what is "negative" for you.
Serf??? 😂
OH, and my god isn't great, mighty and powerful......It's just intelligence and in the form of creation/creating.....
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I can understand what you are saying. But that would conclude that God's Destiny for us is not definate. I think you mean God's plan. Destiny, by its definition, is something we are not only meant to do, but WILL do...regardless of whether or not we accept it. Destiny and Fate are pretty much the same idea.The true idea of Destiny goes against Free will, because in Free Will we determine the outcome of our lives through our actions, interactions with other people, and responses to environmental factors. There is no set "fate" in Free will.
You CAN beleive in Free Will and in God's plan at the same time, but to call God's plan your Destiny is a contradiction. I think you beleive more in Free Will than in Destiny 😉
I was misstating destiny, I was in a hurry answering, and wasn't being as careful with my language as I should have been.
I was considering the idea of free will and destiny though, and think I can still believe in both. Here is the scenario. God knows all things to a level that he is capable of infinite levels of probability in prediction. We are able to make choices, and behave with our agency, but we are unable to behave in a manner that God would not have predicted, or known that we would. Given this, we are in a sense tied to the path God knows will happen. Does this necessarily limit our free will? I do not think it necessarily does, unless free will is limited given an outside force having a knowledge of future events.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The cure of HIV is not a necessity? To wish to have food, water, shelter, and love are not necessities? So if I give a poor person a sandwich, I am indulging him? I'm spoiling him by giving him something he really needs to live? Or am I helping him? So your definition of spoiling someone is giving them something they need?I don't understand your stance on this...?
And BTW...my previous quote was sarcasm. I thought you would get that. : So let me get the cure to HIV on my own....let me create my own food and steal my own money when im poor on the street......God shouldn't spoil me with such privelages such as food, water, health and shelter= sarcasm. 😉
I understood this as sarcasm, I just assumed it was being used to gain a response to the statement. I'll respond to the rest following the next quote I use from you.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Well since you stated you do not have a definitate answer, I'll consider it already answered. I would appreciate, however, if you simply gave me your opinion. I'm not going to attack you for having one. I just still don't see how you beleive that God giving people what they need would hurt them. If God hates evil so much, why does he allow it? He can easily end suffering with his infinite authority, why not just do SO?
Alright. Were you able to obtain a copy of "The ethics of helping people"? If you were able to you might have a better grasp of my stance on this. I will assume you were unable to.
It is a fact that if a parent constantly does things for a child the child will often be retarded (Def. used: Occurring or developing later than desired or expected; delayed) in those areas. An example is my 6 year old plays video games and does not want to learn to read, if I read the instructions to him or tell him what must be done next he will have less need to learn to read, and thus will learn to read later than he would should I not do it for him. This is also true of degradation in some responses. An example of this is those elderly, not all, that are placed in nursing homes and their health declines rapidly. This is, in part, due to the decline in need to do many things themselves. If the nursing home requires the elderly do as much as possible for themselves and assists only when the elderly person is on the verge of failure the elderly person will maintain a higher level of health.
So, by stepping in and healing those with AIDS, perhaps God would be retarding our medical advancement. By stepping in with hunger and such, perhaps God would be retarding the rest of the worlds ability to increase its humanity.
I believe that the world is, at present, heading towards a time where it will be comparable to the time immediately prior to the flood in the Bible. Given this, perhaps one of the only things keeping us from reaching that point is the need for us to help those that are hungry and such.
Also, God created us, perhaps we are the tool created to stave off hunger. Perhaps he has already answered the prayers, but we aren't doing the job we have been given.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But does Life not matter regardless? And no, you could have no belief in God and still think this life is not all that matters....in reincarnation we have a cycle of past lives and future lives.So for a suffering poor person....what do you think they care more about? This life, or the next? You think a starving beggar who needs to eat and drink gives a crap about your belief in God? Or do you think he is more concerned with food? 🙄
I make the same assumptions you do. I believe that those people do care more about this life than the next. I do not understand what you are saying here: You think a starving beggar who needs to eat and drink gives a crap about your belief in God? Do you think that I think we should preach to them, before we help them? I do not. I think that if we are able to we should help them, immediately. I think that while we house them, while we feed them, while we do whatever, we should, if possible, also be trying to teach them how to maintain themselves. I do not believe that we should be saying, "Come to God and we will feed you."
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
My question here is what requirements would a God of infinite power need from us? He created everything right? So what could we possibly give to him to satisfy him? Something he doesnt already have? Something that isn't already part of himself?I find the idea that we need to satisfy God utterly rediculous sorry. You would probably argue that we owe him for creating us, but did we ASK to be created? Did we ask to be born and put on this world?
I beleive that God with his infinite power should serve US, not the other way around. We are the ones who NEED things....God needs nothing, for he can get whatever he wants....he only DESIRES.......WE are the beings that NEED things......
So you beleive that service should only go to a superior? Sorry bro, I disagree with you there. I beleive that service should go to those who NEED it. 😉
I think you, in many ways do not understand my beliefs. I would suggest you read my thread describing my beliefs. I don't believe that God needs anything. I don't believe we are in any way "satisfying" (I use this in reference to fulfilling some need of God's) him. My belief is that we are here to learn compassion, to learn to behave in ways that make us eligible for responsibility following this life, to show that we are capable of doing the things God wants us to do. Thus nothing we do here is for God per say. Everything we do is aiding us in some way.
You use the term superior. I do not believe service goes to the superior person. I do believe that prayers are answered if we understand how to pray in such a way that a prayer will be answered. I am not trying to demean their suffering, I believe that prayer works the same for everyone, suffering or not. Just because someone is in one type of situation than another does not make prayer, or God, change. There is a statement that God is no respecter of persons. It would seem that you believe he should respect the suffering over those that are not. Matthew 19:24 states: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. I think this should lead to the assumption that from God's point of view the rich man needs more help than the suffering one. If probability of entering heaven is the measure of superiority, then the suffering person is the superior.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
This is not about me liking or disliking. This is about me trying to understand your logic, and also about me probably not asking you the right questions before hand. Thanks for answering tho, and i would appreciate if you continued to do so. 😉
Perhaps. I think my using the phrase "you just don't like" was probably a poor choice. I am unsure of another that means what I meant this phrase to mean, so I do not have an alternative to post for you.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Right, and this could be infinately debatable.
Yes, I agree 😉
I think I responded to everything there, I hope that this clarifies , at least somewhat, my opinions. Feel free to respond again, I haven't been overly offended. I did respond a bit aggressively a few times, but I don't hold grudges, so makes no difference.