Football (Soccer)

Originally posted by Deathblow
Gilberto only OK? He annihilated Riquelme (who IS better than anyone in Arsenal's midfield). Totally contained him. I've never seen Deco control a game like Fabregas. Granted, they're different players, but if you want to break it down player by player, I'd take him over anyone bar Ronaldinho, Xavi and Messi (who's not playing anyway). Hleb is much better than most give him credit for, he's very clever, outstanding vision.

Anyway, Arsenal aren't about individual talent, that's the point of them. You can't run down the list of players, rate each one on their own merits, add up the scores at the end and pronounce Barcelona victorious just from that. I think Barcelona will win for three reasons: more experience, fitter/stronger squad, Ronaldinho. But hey, give it a few hours, and we could all be back here admitting mistakes and eating hats and the like.

Hleb isnt a right winger, and he isnt as good as Giuly, i woulda thought that was pretty much a given.

Fabregas, yea, great talent... but he's not as good, atm, as Xavi or Deco... infact i've never seen Fabregas 'control a game' the media always say he has, but whenever i watch him he doesnt seem half as good as everyone says.

Gilberto is ok, he's good, but so is Edmilson... i dont rate Edmilson, but i'd say he's as good as Gilberto. Riquelme had a torrid time, not because of Gilberto, but because he couldnt handle the hustling style of english football.

Barcelona, on talent, deserve to walk this one... but ofcourse it wont work like that.

gilberto has been excellent recently

I wasn't comparing him (Hleb) to Giuly, I wasn't comparing him to anybody in fact. Like I said, he's just much better than most give him credit for.

Well, he's only dominated one in the Champz League so far, I can't remember whether it was Madrid or Juventus, I can't even remember whether it was home or away, but he's done it in England (where it's harder to do) quite often recently. On an unrelated note, I think it's safe to say he'll be one of the best five players in the world by the time he's 25, 26.

And Arsenal did about as much hustling as someone who's hustle-per-day ratio is extremely low in that second leg, that game was open for Riquelme to control, and he couldn't because Gilberto was up his ass for 90 minutes. He's also the most consistent performer at the club.

I don't know, they are a better side, that's not the debate here, but I still feel it's unfair to say they out class Arsenal completely in terms of individual skill. Arsenal still have a lot of potentially world-beating players who just need a little time to be up to Barcelona's standards, and also quite a few very underrated ones. I think if Hleb or Reyes were at Barcelona, reaping the benefits of playing with Ronaldinho (who could make Djibril Cisse look good) week in week out. Also, I think Kolo Toure is an absolutely magnificent defender, he reminds me of Carragher, gives 150% for 100% of the time.

Originally posted by mechmoggy
Clearly, I'm the one having trouble understanding.

Numpty. 🙄

Well said.

Gonna go for an Arsenal win in extra time.

i have to say, what the **** is Andy Gray on... yes it was a bad decision to stop play, but Lehmann brought him down, so red card..

and he keeeeps going on about it, commentary-bias pisses me off

unlucky arsenal, good final up untill the sendin off

Arsenal played extremely well but disgraceful referee.

Henry gets a yellow card for nothing, Ljundberg gets brought down and nothing happens, someone gets brought down at OUR end and it's a free kick, Arsenal get a break so the ref stops play, Eto'o is offside and they allow the goal, Lehmann gets sent off pathetically. Refereeing common sense, he should have allowed the Barcelona goal- and that's coming from an Arsenal fan, though Almunia made amazing saves.

That referee was just pathetic. Arsenal were robbed and if that's denied you weren't watching the game, simple as.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Arsenal played extremely well but disgraceful referee.

Henry gets a yellow card for nothing, Ljundberg gets brought down and nothing happens, someone gets brought down at OUR end and it's a free kick, Arsenal get a break so the ref stops play, Eto'o is offside and they allow the goal, Lehmann gets sent off pathetically. Refereeing common sense, he should have allowed the Barcelona goal- and that's coming from an Arsenal fan, though Almunia made amazing saves.

That referee was just pathetic. Arsenal were robbed and if that's denied you weren't watching the game, simple as.

-AC

i think when spurs lost 4th place you said something about making excuses, but i cant quite remember what it was.

Originally posted by Df02
i think when spurs lost 4th place you said something about making excuses, but i cant quite remember what it was.

Yes, because having six people with natural stomach bugs, only two of which had even played in the last few games, calling in the police, claiming sabotage and then trying for a replay is different. These aren't excuses, they're facts.

Eto'o was offside, fact. Replays showed it. Ljundberg was fouled and wasn't given a free kick, that's also a fact. Henry was given a yellow card for a perfect tackle, fact. End of the game, Arsenal were about to break and the ref stopped play, fact.

What's there to deny? The only thing you can argue is the Lehmann incident, in which case I said give them the goal, so they still would have won even if you subtract Eto'o's goal. I'm more or less giving them the win anyway, but we had 10 men because of a decision that with common sense (and to Arsenal's misfortune) could have been different. We lost, and we still would have if you negate the offside goal and give them the first one, that's not my point. My point is that the ref was shit, and he was.

So why you're accusing me of excuses is beyond me.

Nothing I've said is wrong.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, because having six people with natural stomach bugs, only two of which had even played in the last few games, calling in the police, claiming sabotage and then trying for a replay is different. These aren't excuses, they're facts.

Eto'o was offside, fact. Replays showed it. Ljundberg was fouled and wasn't given a free kick, that's also a fact. Henry was given a yellow card for a perfect tackle, fact. End of the game, Arsenal were about to break and the ref stopped play, fact.

What's there to deny? The only thing you can argue is the Lehmann incident, in which case I said give them the goal, so they still would have won even if you subtract Eto'o's goal. I'm more or less giving them the win anyway, but we had 10 men because of a decision that with common sense (and to Arsenal's misfortune) could have been different. We lost, and we still would have if you negate the offside goal and give them the first one, that's not my point. My point is that the ref was shit, and he was.

So why you're accusing me of excuses is beyond me.

Nothing I've said is wrong.

-AC

im accusing you of excuses because you're using them, regardless of whether theyre accurate or not, theyre excuses.

and Eto'o being offside is questionable.

Originally posted by Df02
im accusing you of excuses because you're using them, regardless of whether theyre accurate or not, theyre excuses.

and Eto'o being offside is questionable.

Yeah, but these are facts that altered and changed the game. Your six man natural stomach bug incident (which affected two players who had even played the last few games only) was a superficial "disadvantage" if anything.

Eto'o being offside isn't questionable if you saw all three of the replays. He was infront of all the defenders when it was passed to him, very clearly. Anything else is ignorance, because if you watch the replays that they showed- and are undoubtedly showing now- you'd see it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, but these are facts that altered and changed the game. Your six man natural stomach bug incident (which effected two players who had even played the last few games only) was a superficial "disadvantage" if anything.

Eto'o being offside isn't questionable if you saw all three of the replays. He was infront of all the defenders when it was passed to him, very clearly. Anything else is ignorance, because if you watch the replays that they showed- and are undoubtedly showing now- you'd see it.

-AC

boo hoo, he looked inline leaning forward, im sure every Arsenal goal this season has been onside... it happens.

i've never denied the spurs thing was an excuse, ofcourse it was, and ofcourse it was a disadvantage.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, because having six people with natural stomach bugs, only two of which had even played in the last few games, calling in the police, claiming sabotage and then trying for a replay is different. These aren't excuses, they're facts.

Eto'o was offside, fact. Replays showed it. Ljundberg was fouled and wasn't given a free kick, that's also a fact. Henry was given a yellow card for a perfect tackle, fact. End of the game, Arsenal were about to break and the ref stopped play, fact.

What's there to deny? The only thing you can argue is the Lehmann incident, in which case I said give them the goal, so they still would have won even if you subtract Eto'o's goal. I'm more or less giving them the win anyway, but we had 10 men because of a decision that with common sense (and to Arsenal's misfortune) could have been different. We lost, and we still would have if you negate the offside goal and give them the first one, that's not my point. My point is that the ref was shit, and he was.

So why you're accusing me of excuses is beyond me.

Nothing I've said is wrong.

-AC

As I remember Henry had 3 or 4 chances to score not to mention Ljundberg had 2 or 3 chances aswell. The send off was in my opinion to harsh, should have been a yellow and should have allowed the goal. Going 995 minutes without allowing a goal is amazing in its own right. Also Replay doesnt show Eto offside, he had to run to the end before reaching the ball. Arsenal could have taken this game to extra time but Henry messed up.

Ref was shit in this game, too many calls not made for both sides.

😄

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Lehmann gets sent off pathetically. Refereeing common sense, he should have allowed the Barcelona goal

Wow, the planets are aligned today cause i actually agree with AC here. That decision ruined what was shaping up to be a top rate final and this is coming from a Spurs fan.

Originally posted by Df02
boo hoo, he looked inline leaning forward, im sure every Arsenal goal this season has been onside... it happens.

Looked, but wasn't. Ergo, the goal shouldn't have counted. That's how it works.

You're acting as if I'm denying Barca the win. I'm not, if I had my way they'd still have the 2-1, but he didn't need to take us down to 10 men and make poor decisions, including allowing an offside goal to do it.

Denying that the ref was terrible is just blind. He was disgraceful. He made disgraceful calls, how you can deny that is beyond me, if that is what you're trying to do.

Originally posted by Df02
i've never denied the spurs thing was an excuse, ofcourse it was, and ofcourse it was a disadvantage.

You don't know how many of the starting 11 were hit with it, or how bad, you just assumed the worst case scenario and ran with it.

This was the result of an "official" ruining the game for a team who could have (I know, we'll never know) very likely won it. They didn't, and fine. I'm not denying Barca the win, but the way they won as a result of bad refereeing was pathetic.

-AC

Originally posted by El_NINO
As I remember Henry had 3 or 4 chances to score not to mention Ljundberg had 2 or 3 chances aswell. The send off was in my opinion to harsh, should have been a yellow and should have allowed the goal. Going 995 minutes without allowing a goal is amazing in its own right. Also Replay doesnt show Eto offside, he had to run to the end before reaching the ball. Arsenal could have taken this game to extra time but Henry messed up.

The replay does show Eto'o offside, clearly. They replayed it 3 times and Eto'o was infront of Eboue and (I think) Toure each time. It was pathetic. If you watched the game and the replays, each time, you'd see that. It wasn't a debateable call, he was off.

What do you mean "Henry messed up"? They were 10 men defending against one of the best attacking sides in the entire world and in dire conditions, he had barely any support. Yes, he missed a couple chances he should have scored but that's the way it goes. I'm not denying Barca the win, but they won as a result of bad refereeing.

Arsenal had the greater injustice, anyone can see that, I can run down a list of unbiased, objective facts to prove that and I have done.

-AC

agreed

arsenal could of took the game to them more with 11 men.

still they provided a few chances, henry should of scored. im sure he would of put that away in the premiership.

Exactly, the performance was stellar for how badly they were getting screwed over. Henry missed the chances he had, that's true. Though he would have undoubtedly had a lot more chances if he they had 11 men. No Fabregas by the end, no Pires, no Lehmann (Who I think would have stopped that Belletti goal, maybe even the Eto'o one, but that's speculation).

Barca went there to win and win they did, fair enough and fair play to them. Though I don't like the way they all ran over pressuring the ref into a red card decision, which they did.

-AC

yeh the ref was shamful. dont be surprised if you see pics coming out, of him wearing a barca top.